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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:09 AM   #1
dontwalkhand
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Over 21, but still using an under 21 ID?

I have turned 21 eons ago, and the one thing that I have been too lazy to do (as it is not even required by law) is getting a new ID that is turned sideways. (The Under 21 IDs are vertical). I moved out since I was 18, so the address doesn't need to be changed on it, so thats off on of the reasons why I should get a new ID as well.

When buying lottery tickets (the only thing I need the new ID for...considering I don't drink), the gas station attendant, and I always seem to get into some sort of argument. I tell them to look at the actual birthdate, and they just outright refuse to do the simple math (AND THEY ARE CASHIERS!)

Arizona state law does not require you to get a new ID when you turn 21, it is purely your option...a $12 + 3 hours in line option by the way (or $12 + shipping if you do it online).

I usually tell the gas station attendant to come wait in line with me at the MVD instead..and that usually gets them to stop complaining and finally let me have my $2 lottery ticket.

Is it absurd how the cashiers are trained to not do math, but simply just look at the orientation of the ID to buy restricted things? I always have to speak to the manager just to be able to get something.

Question is for MR...should I bother getting a new ID that orients the ID the right way..or just have fun with the gas station attendants every time?

My favorite lines to use are "Do you want to pay me $12 to get a new license?" or "Do you want to come with me to wait in line? We'll go right now"
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:19 AM   #2
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I would just order one online, to save both your's and the cashiers time, even if it is funny to argue with them.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:21 AM   #3
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Now, for me, I'd soo enjoy messing with everybody. Keep the ID, have a little fun
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:24 AM   #4
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If it doesnt bother you too much to have to go through that ordeal every time, then save your money. But if $12 and a few hours of your time are worth it to make it stop, by all means. Personally I'd pay the fee and wait the time, I hate getting carded as it is (Because I can never find the damn thing) I can`t imagine staying calm and cool for too long with some of those snarky store clerks.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:29 AM   #5
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I kept my under 21 ID until I was 23 or 24 and it expired and was forced to renew it, I never had any problems though.

However, Missouri's under 21 ID looks identical to an over 21 ID with the exception of bold red text at the top that says "UNDER 21 UNTIL [date]", so it's easy enough for a cashier to look at that, look at the calendar, and determine I'm over 21. No math required. That's probably the right way to do it - if you train cashiers that a vertical ID means you're under 21, then you're going to run into this problem. Just keep the IDs the same, and put the date of their 21st birthday on it. Simple.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:30 AM   #6
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I would pay the $12 and update your ID.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:31 AM   #7
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I was in the same boat as I got my new license when I turned 20. The PA driver's licenses were a little better...not vertical at that time, just a bold "UNDER 21 UNTIL..." banner at the top. Of course this made it tons easier for cashiers of course, especially since beer and wine and liquor sales are limited to specific stores and not openly available in grocery and quick-stop stores.

Once I hit 21, anyone checking IDs could tell that I was quickly, based on the bold date at the top. Sounds like Arizona is a little backwards in that respect.

It's up to you as to what to do. It seems to me that it would be infinitely easier to just get a new one. Heck, you can probably just do it online...I know you can in TX (where I live now) I haven't been to the DMV (DPS) here since 2002. Plus I HIGHLY doubt that you will be in line for 3 hours. Pick a location outside of the populated areas and you will probably be in and out in less than 15 minutes.

Sure you may like giving the cashiers grief, but just from you posting here I can tell it's getting old and you just want to go in-and-out sometimes rather than wasting time in the transaction. You already know you want to do it. I guess you just need a nudge?

EDIT: Apparantly MO and PA are smart states.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:35 AM   #8
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I was in the same boat as I got my new license when I turned 20. The PA driver's licenses were a little better...not vertical at that time, just a bold "UNDER 21 UNTIL..." banner at the top. Of course this made it tons easier for cashiers of course, especially since beer and wine and liquor sales are limited to specific stores and not openly available in grocery and quick-stop stores.
Wait, what? You can't pick up some booze with your regular grocery shopping in PA?

You can buy it pretty much anywhere in Missouri. Grocery stores, gas stations, you name it. I went to get gas this morning, went inside to get a soda, and right by the cashier they had a big tub filled with ice and they were selling some Budweiser Clydesdale piss by the can. It's almost too convenient and makes drinking and driving way too easy. Perhaps that's why they were selling Budweiser and not good beer. No one was buying
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:44 AM   #9
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I don't remember having a different driver's licence for "under 21." I certainly didn't get a new one when I turned 21.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
I kept my under 21 ID until I was 23 or 24 and it expired and was forced to renew it, I never had any problems though.

However, Missouri's under 21 ID looks identical to an over 21 ID with the exception of bold red text at the top that says "UNDER 21 UNTIL [date]", so it's easy enough for a cashier to look at that, look at the calendar, and determine I'm over 21. No math required. That's probably the right way to do it - if you train cashiers that a vertical ID means you're under 21, then you're going to run into this problem. Just keep the IDs the same, and put the date of their 21st birthday on it. Simple.
Texas is vertical if you are under 21 but does say the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomorrow View Post
I don't remember having a different driver's licence for "under 21." I certainly didn't get a new one when I turned 21.
I am going to guess like me you dodge it as well. They changed it like in May or June of 2001. I missed it by a matter of weeks as I turned 18 in April of 2001. Also if memory serves me you are older than I am so it is safe to say you were not effected by it.


As for the OP I would just call the attendees/cashiers stupid and generally all you should have to do is point out to them DOB. They generally have a sign somewhere that say what DOB is for the youngest person who can buy boozes and if you DOB on your DL is before then you are OK.
I know for me I never replaced my DL after I turned 21 until I lost it and while I was at it replacing it I updated the photo.
Also OP I would not be surprised if you can go online and order a new one for like 10 bucks. That is how much it cost in Texas if you change your address or anything on there. I have not set foot in a DMV since I replaced my DL like 6 or so years ago. I have always done it online for both the renewal and 2 address updates. I think for the next time it have to be renewed I have to go in but the trick to avoiding the lines is knowing which DMV to go to.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 11:53 AM   #11
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I'd keep the ID, it sounds like it'd be fun to screw with people that are too lazy to do the math.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 12:15 PM   #12
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Op, I'm in the same boat as you. I had to renew my license by my 21st birthday, so they gave me an under 21 license.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 12:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
I am going to guess like me you dodge it as well. They changed it like in May or June of 2001. I missed it by a matter of weeks as I turned 18 in April of 2001. Also if memory serves me you are older than I am so it is safe to say you were not effected by it.
I was living in Oklahoma at the time. They would stamp "UNDER 21" on certain licenses if you were, but it was very hit or miss as to whether it ever got stamped. In any event, there wasn't a separate license or layout for the under-21 crowd.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 02:40 PM   #14
zioxide
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tell them to stop being idiots and read your license. or tell them you'll just take your business to another store.

nothing wrong with your ID. as long as it's not expired, it's fine.

my 21st was on a saturday, had to renew on the friday, and even though they didnt print my license until the following week, i still got vertical. no way i'm paying 40 bucks just to change the direction. its pretty clear on there that it says "UNDER 21 UNTIL XX-XX-2009." It's 2011 now, any place that wants to give me problems doesn't deserve my money.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 02:48 PM   #15
chrono1081
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Originally Posted by dontwalkhand View Post
I have turned 21 eons ago, and the one thing that I have been too lazy to do (as it is not even required by law) is getting a new ID that is turned sideways. (The Under 21 IDs are vertical). I moved out since I was 18, so the address doesn't need to be changed on it, so thats off on of the reasons why I should get a new ID as well.

When buying lottery tickets (the only thing I need the new ID for...considering I don't drink), the gas station attendant, and I always seem to get into some sort of argument. I tell them to look at the actual birthdate, and they just outright refuse to do the simple math (AND THEY ARE CASHIERS!)

Arizona state law does not require you to get a new ID when you turn 21, it is purely your option...a $12 + 3 hours in line option by the way (or $12 + shipping if you do it online).

I usually tell the gas station attendant to come wait in line with me at the MVD instead..and that usually gets them to stop complaining and finally let me have my $2 lottery ticket.

Is it absurd how the cashiers are trained to not do math, but simply just look at the orientation of the ID to buy restricted things? I always have to speak to the manager just to be able to get something.

Question is for MR...should I bother getting a new ID that orients the ID the right way..or just have fun with the gas station attendants every time?

My favorite lines to use are "Do you want to pay me $12 to get a new license?" or "Do you want to come with me to wait in line? We'll go right now"
You should put yourself in their shoes, its nothing to do with math (not to mention cashiers simply need to count change, not figure out your birthdate). Those people have a crappy enough job as it is let alone having someone mess with them.

If you were in Pennsylvania you wouldn't be allowed to do a lot of things since even if your birthdate matches, you have to have the horizontal ID. Its a failsafe for the business because if someone else came in trying to do what you are doing and they were not legally of age, and the cashier screwed up the math the store could get fined (or sued for selling the ticket if someone one and can't cash it) and the employee would lose their job.

To make life easier on all parties why not just get the horizontal ID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Wait, what? You can't pick up some booze with your regular grocery shopping in PA?
Don't rub it in!!! :P

Just recently, as in the past year one of our gas stations, Sheetz, won (again) the right to sell alcohol but they have to put it in a bag for it to leave the store and I think you can only buy it during certain hours, and only one Sheetz that I know of sells it and its the big one in Altoona.

We also have a Giant Eagle that just recently was allowed to start selling alcohol but it has to be purchased separate from your groceries in a certain section of the store.

PA is very backwards in that regard, we also have the crappiest fireworks available too!
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:12 PM   #16
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You should put yourself in their shoes, its nothing to do with math (not to mention cashiers simply need to count change, not figure out your birthdate). Those people have a crappy enough job as it is let alone having someone mess with them.
It's not even math. I work in a restaurant, we have to card people for alcohol. Our computer terminals display the current birthdate (today it says 8/2/90). Compare the ID to the birthdate, if it's before that date, they are legal. It's not rocket science. ANYONE can figure this out.

Quote:
Its a failsafe for the business because if someone else came in trying to do what you are doing and they were not legally of age, and the cashier screwed up the math the store could get fined (or sued for selling the ticket if someone one and can't cash it) and the employee would lose their job.
Umm, if you sell to someone underage, you ARE going to lose your job. Doesn't matter if they have a fake ID, you don't card them, or you just **** up reading their card. If someone finds out you served someone underage, you are ****ed either way. The businesses protect themselves by the fact that they will fire you if you make this mistake. It's simple. Want to keep your job? Make sure you ID properly.

Quote:
To make life easier on all parties why not just get the horizontal ID?
Why waste money for no reason?
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:18 PM   #17
Apple OC
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ID to buy lottery tickets? ... here in Toronto I have never heard of them refusing tickets even to teenagers.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:32 PM   #18
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I was living in Oklahoma at the time. They would stamp "UNDER 21" on certain licenses if you were, but it was very hit or miss as to whether it ever got stamped. In any event, there wasn't a separate license or layout for the under-21 crowd.
yeah I had the under 21 part stamp on it but that was it.

Did get a good laugh at one dumb ass who annoyed me in school took his id and erased the under 21 part of the DL but everything else was legit. Then he tried to argue with me that he was legal. Did not help that I knew for a fact that he age was 19 at the time which was the same as mine.
Then he tried the buddy crap but lets face it I did not like the guy when I was in school so no way in hell I was going to do a favor for the guy who was a HS drop out that I did not like to begin with.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:32 PM   #19
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Just recently, as in the past year one of our gas stations, Sheetz, won (again) the right to sell alcohol but they have to put it in a bag for it to leave the store and I think you can only buy it during certain hours, and only one Sheetz that I know of sells it and its the big one in Altoona.

We also have a Giant Eagle that just recently was allowed to start selling alcohol but it has to be purchased separate from your groceries in a certain section of the store.

PA is very backwards in that regard, we also have the crappiest fireworks available too!
my friend in PA is always so jealous when she comes out to visit me when it comes to the liquor! Can't even ship her a decent bottle of wine from California! Didn't I hear that you guys also just started getting vending machines for wine (?!) Craziness.

To the OP: Man the first thing I did when I turned 21 was get a new license. I was so sick of the "Under 21 until XXXXX" stamped big & bold on there. However, I see your point about not needlessly wasting money, so I'd just keep the vertical and do what you have been doing: make them check the date.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:51 PM   #20
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IMO, if you have the ability to rectify the situation and choose not to, then you don't really have the right to complain about the headache it causes.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:51 PM   #21
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I have a buddy in AZ that is about 35 and still uses his perfectly legitimate laminated ID from 19 years ago which does not expire until about 2043 or so. He has had some funny responses from clerks and bouncers. Those old things didn't even have magnetic strips!
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 03:59 PM   #22
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IMO, if you have the ability to rectify the situation and choose not to, then you don't really have the right to complain about the headache it causes.
I completely agree.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 04:38 PM   #23
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ID to buy lottery tickets? ... here in Toronto I have never heard of them refusing tickets even to teenagers.
Illegal, but probably true.

The trouble starts if they win a major prize.

Who do you trust?
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 04:46 PM   #24
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Most likely the gas station attendant is just screwing with you for fun since his job is pretty boring. Since it seems to amuse you too, I say keep your current license as long as possible.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 08:44 PM   #25
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It's not even math. I work in a restaurant, we have to card people for alcohol. Our computer terminals display the current birthdate (today it says 8/2/90). Compare the ID to the birthdate, if it's before that date, they are legal. It's not rocket science. ANYONE can figure this out.
Yes but not all registers are like that, and in may places they will flat out deny you without a horizontal license. A few bars around here require it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVixen View Post
Didn't I hear that you guys also just started getting vending machines for wine (?!) Craziness.
You can get wine in vending machines??? I haven't seen them around here but I live in a small crappy town so it takes us awhile to get things.
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