How many want the Chevy Camaro to come back?

[quagmire]

I was struck in '02 that the Camaro was killed along side its equivalent the Pontiac Firebird. Now rumors are coming around and a site that is similar to Macrumors, appleinsider, and thinksecret is reporting that a Camaro like coupe it coming and it will be based off the Zeta platform. It will be RWD and debuting in the 2007-2009 time period. Many say it will be the Camaro. Some say it may be the Chevelle. I would hope it is a Camaro because it has a better name reputation then the Chevelle did. As for the reason for the killing was not because of the low sales number, it was the deal GM and the Quebec/Canadian gov't. As long as the Camaro/Firebird was profitable they were allowed to build the cars there in Quebec only. So with the Camaro gone the plant was destroyed resulting in the deal becoming void. So GM can bring it back now with little opposition by the Canadian gov't to my understanding.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/futureguide1.htm

Here is a possible design of the Camaro. Keep in mind it is a rendering of a design.

http://www.techimo.com/photo/data/5/...con_camaro.jpg

[ldburroughs]

Maybe they'll bring the mullet back too

While I do like the new design, I am confident I won't starting sporting a mullet. I think it was about time they stopped making the Camaro to give it a break. It's design was getting a little tired.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by ldburroughs

Maybe they'll bring the mullet back too

While I do like the new design, I am confident I won't starting sporting a mullet. I think it was about time they stopped making the Camaro to give it a break. It's design was getting a little tired.

Mark you up as another person who fell into GM's plan. GM didn't want to give it a refresh so sales would die. Then they could kill the Camaro and void the deal and bring it back later in a U.S plant. Hopefully it will come back in the timeframe I have set in my first post so it could become my first car.

[PlaceofDis]

i do like that design, but i have never liked the camero, i would rather seem more economical and efficent vehicles come out, but i know that i am in the minority here....

[quagmire]

Another design,

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...%20Camaro.jpeg

[mkrishnan]

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

i do like that design, but i have never liked the camero, i would rather seem more economical and efficent vehicles come out, but i know that i am in the minority here....

Is it just me, or is that CGI blatantly the previous generation Camaro with the new Mustang's grill on the front (plus bowtie, natch)?

Hmmm...I don't know the Zeta platform. But GM has some pretty nifty sports cars in their pockets, besides the GTO. A hardtop sports car based on the Saturn and Pontiac roadsters might be nice. Also they have plenty of platforms with which they don't do enough. If the Malibu Maxx had a credible suspension and steering, and a manual transmission, I would have been all over that....

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by mkrishnan

Is it just me, or is that CGI blatantly the previous generation Camaro with the new Mustang's grill on the front (plus bowtie, natch)?

Well it is supposed to be based off the 1960's Camaro's. Similar what Ford did with Mustang. This is not an official design from GM from what I hear about it. But, I like the design. This is the closest Camaro I could find. It is a 1969 Camaro RS.

http://www.acarshow.com/c69redrs.jpg

[iGary]

GM posted 1.1 billion dollars in losses today.

I'm kinda tired of all these resurrected designs.

[Sun Baked]

I thought GM killed the Zeta platform last month... they were losing money left and right and killed the platform.

Something about focusing their money on the platforms that make up significant portions of current sales that haven't been refreshed in awhile.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Sun Baked

I thought GM killed the Zeta platform last month... they were losing money left and right and killed the platform.

Something about focusing their money on the platforms that make up significant portions of current sales that haven't been refreshed in awhile.

In North America. It is still having the the final touches done in Australia. But, the killing off the Zeta platform did not effect the Zeta "lite" platform which the Camaro could be based off. As well as a kappa based platform called Beta. There are tons of platforms for GM to use for the Camaro. Here is an article about a " Camaro clone".

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...B01-148937.htm

[tangerineyum]

im not sure what market gap a new camero would fill. We have a cobalt ss at 205 hp, which share the same power plant with the saturn ion which has been dynoed to have 195 hp at the wheel. leading me to believe that GM has under speced the cobalt. Then we have the corvette that has 400 hp. One car for 23,000 and the other for 50,000. Is the new camero supposed to be 325 hp for 32,000 ? Plus we have all the other "ss" model monte carlo, impala, and silverado. The first 2 will be nearing a revision where they come with over 300 hp for the low 30's. I think chevy has enough speed at this point.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by tangerineyum

im not sure what market gap a new camero would fill. We have a cobalt ss at 205 hp, which share the same power plant with the saturn ion which has been dynoed to have 195 hp at the wheel. leading me to believe that GM has under speced the cobalt. Then we have the corvette that has 400 hp. One car for 23,000 and the other for 50,000. Is the new camero supposed to be 325 hp for 32,000 ? Plus we have all the other "ss" model monte carlo, impala, and silverado. The first 2 will be nearing a revision where they come with over 300 hp for the low 30's. I think chevy has enough speed at this point.

But, the Corvette doesn't compete with Mustang, Cobalt isn't competing with Mustang. Definatly not the Silverado. It has always been Camaro vs Mustang. And Camaro came on top most of the time. The 4G Camaro had a V6 at 200 HP and not Supercharged. The 5th gen Camaro will be loser to 220 HP V6 and 325 HP V8 to compete with Mustang. The HP spec's are just guesses.

[Toreador93]

I'm still pissed at GM for killing Saab's identity.

In my opinion, GM doesn't know how to run a car company. What the hell was the SSR? The GTO should have been a huge seller. Initially with 350hp and four doors, should've well out-paced the Mustang. However, due to the bland styling, the rebadging (Holden Monaro anyone?), and/or the price, sales have been crawling. Maybe for $35k, people feel they can get better quality.

I admit that I like the new Corvette and Cadillac CTS. I hate SUVs, and feel the Escalades are bought by people who can afford to waste money. The XLR was a good idea, but very over priced (which is why they're cutting production in half ). I think they forgot that Cadillac hasn't been a top luxury brand for over 20 years.

On that note, they're stifling Saab's image to keep Cadillac their #1 brand. Now this is just rumor (this being an appropriate site), but Saab supposedly made a few very cool cars/SUVs from Cadillac's Sigma platform, but was denied production because the Trailblazer Platform** was "cheaper". Well, now their wallets will be hurting more than their ego.

**Trail Blazer consists of: TrailBlazer, Envoy, Ranier, Bravada, Isuzu Ascender, and now Saab 9-7x .

On to the Camero. I don't have enough faith in GM to believe they'd do a good job of bringing back the Camero. GM has had many more misses than hits lately. I'd say give it 5 or 10 more years when GM is under different managment.

[tangerineyum]

Originally Posted by quagmire

But, the Corvette doesn't compete with Mustang, Cobalt isn't competing with Mustang. Definatly not the Silverado. It has always been Camaro vs Mustang. And Camaro came on top most of the time. The 4G Camaro had a V6 at 200 HP and not Supercharged. The 5th gen Camaro will be loser to 220 HP V6 and 325 HP V8 to compete with Mustang. The HP spec's are just guesses.

I agree with u completely that the mustang and camero competition is epic. But chevy cant/wont produce a a new v8 300+ hp car for the same price as a mustang GT. Chevy wont price below 30k because that kills cobalt sales. And they wont mess with their new baby. If there was no cobalt i say bring back the camero, I want to drive a chevy that will have me snapping into my seat when i hit the gas. I just dont see them doing it.

[Sun Baked]

Originally Posted by Toreador93

In my opinion, GM doesn't know how to run a car company. What the hell was the SSR? The GTO should have been a huge seller. Initially with 350hp and four doors, should've well out-paced the Mustang. However, due to the bland styling, the rebadging (Holden Monaro anyone?), and/or the price, sales have been crawling. Maybe for $35k, people feel they can get better quality.

The GTO along with a fancy buick were also Zeta platform vehicles.

When Lutz came in he wanted to kill the current sharp edged styling at GM (he hated it) but it had gone too far.

However his decisions to delay platforms for "hot sellers" while bringing in new platforms for vehicles with sliding marketshare backfired.

The Zeta platform, wouldn't have helped out, an much expensive platform for low sales.

Quality has suffered, along with the popular vehicles having dated platforms and engines. This helped dump market share for the best selling segments of GM.

Look to see GM unloading platforms, sharing more platforms internationally, and closing plants in Europe.

GM is edging towards bankruptcy, they should be able to kill those expensive plants in Europe finally.

Should be interesting to see if GM avoids BK (they are rated near junk by Moody's right now with a negative outlook) -- or they are the first US manufacturer to use BK to get rid of the pensions and expensive union contracts (it'll happen, it's just who is first) in order to compete on equal footing wordwide.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Toreador93

On to the Camero. I don't have enough faith in GM to believe they'd do a good job of bringing back the Camero. GM has had many more misses than hits lately. I'd say give it 5 or 10 more years when GM is under different managment.

If GM can kill off Oldsmobile by cutting corners in the design of the last few models I don't see how they can make a killer Camero.

[MacNut]

I wish car companies would bring back the big muscle car, While Ford tried to resurrect the Mustang, its still not nearly as nice as its older bigger siblings.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally Posted by ldburroughs

Maybe they'll bring the mullet back too

What about those of us that can only do a half mullet?

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Chip NoVaMac

What about those of us that can only do a half mullet?

Thats when you know its time to shave it all off.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally Posted by Toreador93

I'm still pissed at GM for killing Saab's identity.

How so? Sure they went to Subaru for their new small wagon, but it says Saab to me. And if I didn't already have a Baja, I would have been tempted.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Thats when you know its time to shave it all off.

LOL!

Safe to say I have taken the high road I guess. Decided that I would rather shave it off, than to try and comb it over.

Though with my look a new Camaro with T-Tops might be a good look, maybe. Though I am at the age and size that any sporty car looks way too funny. Tried a Mini Copper at a dealership and a friend said that I looked like a circus side show waiting to happen.

[840quadra]

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

i do like that design, but i have never liked the camero, i would rather seem more economical and efficent vehicles come out, but i know that i am in the minority here....

Being a Freelance journalist in regards to articles on European automobiles, I would like to see my Domestic car makers, make something to compete with the push for economical engines. The way BMW / Mini, VW/Audi, , and others are evolving in economical engines that are both high performance, and low pollution, the US engineers are going to have to start to push harder.

Granted GM and Ford can work with their acquired European brands to gain this, but I would like to see more local support for these technologies, and also start seeing GM and Ford start to get public awareness up in regards to benefits here in the US.

I am waiting for a Volvo Variable Compression, Direct Injected engine myself.
Nothing like over 250hp in a small car, that can get over 45 MPG.

And before anybody labels me, I have helped build two Pontiac GTO’s (64 vintage), a GMC Cyclone, and a Grand National. I love American Muscle, I just think it is time to move on.

840

[mad jew]

Originally Posted by Sun Baked

The GTO along with a fancy buick were also Zeta platform vehicles.

I might be wrong and it's a moot point anyway but I'm pretty sure the GTO is based on the V-car platform that underpins my Commodore and the Zeta platform is the next generation (replacement) for these. I'm also not quite sure which Buick you mean.

As for the retro designs, come on Detroit, they were like sooooo 1999. Some of them worked (Mini) and some of them didn't (S-Type Jaguar) and from what I've seen of the Camaro and the Mustang (are they actually different cars? ) these two don't really deserve to work. But that's just an Aussie opinion and I've been around long enough to know that different continents like their cars made to drive and look different - hence the Monaro to GTO debacle.

[Sun Baked]

Originally Posted by mad jew

I might be wrong and it's a moot point anyway but I'm pretty sure the GTO is based on the V-car platform that underpins my Commodore and the Zeta platform is the next generation (replacement) for these. I'm also not quite sure which Buick you mean.

The Buick Velite, Pontiac GTO and Chevy Camaro were Zeta platform vehicles.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/thumbs-...024x768-th.jpg

[mad jew]

Originally Posted by Sun Baked

The Buick Velite, Pontiac GTO and Chevy Camaro were Zeta platform vehicles.

Yeah sorry, but I'm almost 100% sure you're not quite right there. Zeta is the upcoming platform we're designing here in Australia. The current GTO is based on the Monaro which is based on the Commodore which itself is based on a heavily bastardised version of the Opel Omega platform. The Buick will probably be based on Zeta and the Camaro is in the same boat. I have no idea what platform the superseded Camaro used but it wasn't related to anything from Australia (don't blame us).

I've got some friends who work at Holden and they're pretty sure I'm right too but we're more than happy to be corrected. Either way, it really doesn't matter, it's just me being a pedant.