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eBay dispute (MBP)

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akkkmed

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 3, 2010
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Here's the story... Sold my MacBook Pro back in March 2011. Everything was mint, etc, etc. The buyer was extremely pleased with it. We talked back and forth a few times. Seemed like a nice guy.

I get an email today from PayPal that says the buyer tried opening a dispute with them. But since it's more than 45 days after the sale (duh?!), they won't do anything about it.

So I contacted the buyer and asked what's wrong (since he never told me there was a problem.) He says the hard drive is failing and Apple won't replace it because it's a 3rd party drive. And the RAM is 3rd party too. I reply back to him and say yes, the hard drive was added by me (new, OEM, from NewEgg.) But no, the RAM is stock.

I get an email tonight (not another eBay message):
"I am contacting you in regards to the MacBook Pro that was purchased back in March. We need to come to an agreement to resolve my issue with the third party hardware which I am having issues with now and Apple will not cover it under warranty. Your ad did not state that there was a third party hardware installed on the device. If I do not receive a reply or if we cannot come to an agreement I will have to process a charge back with my credit card company. Please let me know how you would like to work this."

What should I do? The hard drive I bought has a 2 year limited warranty. Should he just pursue that himself? No, I did not say the HDD was 3rd party in my ad, but at the same time, I didn't say it was stock...

Also, Apple Care ended May 31, 2011. It's now almost September. He's out of warranty, yet he says Apple won't help him. It sounds so fishy. Thanks!!
 
While it is a gray area, did your ad mention that the laptop still was covered under warranty until May 2011?

If so, then I'd think you're slightly more in the wrong, as you should have highlighted that everything BUT the HD would be covered under warranty. It doesn't read like you were purposefully trying to deceive him, and I can understand that it was probably just an oversight, but I think the onus is on you to fix the issue.

Since the HD is still under warranty, why don't you help buyer file a warranty claim and get a new HD shipped to him. If that takes too long, just send him some $ to help him a new HD, and you file the warranty claim and keep the replacement HD (which you can then sell). I'd guess at most you're out some time and maybe $20-40, doesn't seem like that big of a deal to make it right.
 
You may be to nice of a guy here.

He bought it over 45 days ago, AppleCare is expired. You are not liable for the Hard drive failing. Not to piss him off but tell him good luck. :rolleyes:
 
Reelknead1 said:
You may be to nice of a guy here.

He bought it over 45 days ago, AppleCare is expired. You are not liable for the Hard drive failing. Not to piss him off but tell him good luck. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

He's telling me, through email, that he bought Apple Care. So he feels duped for having spent $280 on AC, yet the AC doesn't cover all the parts...
 
akkkmed said:
He's telling me, through email, that he bought Apple Care. So he feels duped for having spent $280 on AC, yet the AC doesn't cover all the parts...
Click to expand...

IMHO, this makes my post above even more appropriate. Based on your ad, he thought everything was covered since you wrote still under warranty until May 2011 so AppleCare should cover everything until 2013 except your ad didn't highlight the HD would fall under manufacturer's warranty, not AppleCare.
 
well, he won't get very far. chargeback won't affect you because he agreed to eBay/PayPal's terms (45 days to make a dispute, etc..) not his own. he can't just do a chargeback several months later because something broke.

but if you're a nice guy and actually want to help him out, send him all the necessary documents so he could get a replacement HDD from the manufacturer.

it's quite easy and i've done it before with western digital (i think, can't remember).


jenzjen said:
IMHO, this makes my post above even more appropriate. Based on your ad, he thought everything was covered since you wrote still under warranty until May 2011 so AppleCare should cover everything until 2013 except your ad didn't highlight the HD would fall under manufacturer's warranty, not AppleCare.
Click to expand...

this is where 'Doing research on an expensive item you're about to buy - 101" comes in...

o wait, majority of the population doesn't have common sense. oops
 
Most CC have something like a 60 day chargeback policy, some lenient with 90 days. You're... 180 days in the clear. You're fine.

That said, why not do him a favor and try to help him resolve the HDD warranty issue?
 
akkkmed said:
He's telling me, through email, that he bought Apple Care. So he feels duped for having spent $280 on AC, yet the AC doesn't cover all the parts...
Click to expand...

i'd feel the same way. :eek:

when i sold my laptop i made sure to mention it was upgraded ram/hdd.

realistically though, it worked when he got it and that's the end of it. as a result of you not fully disclosing all info, i'd do what acfusion29 said and send him the warranty info + your receipt or something (if necessary) for warranty claim. :cool:
 
acfusion29 said:
this is where 'Doing research on an expensive item you're about to buy - 101" comes in...

o wait, majority of the population doesn't have common sense. oops
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with research, the OP's ad stated under warranty until May 2011, so everything should be covered, because it would have been had OP not installed 3rd party stuff (that he didn't disclose after the warranty, i.e. under warranty EXCEPT HD WHICH IS 3RD PARTY or something similar).
 
This guy is a jerk. Frankly, I would be really pissed that he went to Paypal first, before even contacting me. That in itself is indicative of what you are dealing with. (And yet you are so nice, that your feeling guilty?) :)

You have zero obligation to him.

If this happened to me, I would just ignore him. I would not engage him in conversation.
 
Just help the cry baby rma the hd, or get him a new one. Better then to deal with all this headache
 
I kindof agree with the buyer on this one.
This reminds me a bit of when I bought a laptop off of here and the battery was completely shot, and the seller's argument was that "he never said the battery wasn't shot." It's just one of those things people would assume.

If I bought a laptop on e-Bay, I would assume it was all stock unless told otherwise. Usually if people put 3rd party harddrives into a laptop, it's because they wanted more space, and usually when they sell they will state that they "upgraded the harddrive to ____"

When selling something like a laptop, you should put as much information about it as you can, and if you claimed that it was under warranty then that pretty much states that the entire laptop is and nobody would think to ask if all the individual parts are.

Not trying to give you a hard time, I don't think you're a bad person or seller, I think this was just a big mistake but realistically if I was in the buyer's shoes I would be pretty upset.
 
SPNarwhal said:
Not trying to give you a hard time, I don't think you're a bad person or seller, I think this was just a big mistake but realistically if I was in the buyer's shoes I would be pretty upset.
Click to expand...

I agree. When I sold my MB back a month or so ago on Ebay, I stated all of the upgrades that it had, the fact that it had minor cracking along both palm rests, and that was pretty much it.

If you were to buy a car and realize you couldn't... oh I don't know, put insurance on it due to the fact that it was stolen (but no problems or anything if you get pulled over, just no insurance) would you be upset? Damn right you would.

I think you should send him a few bucks to help get it sorted out.
 
Well let me get this straight. His problem happened out side of the warranty right?

So what's the problem? I don't get it. He had some warranty, then it ended. You didn't lie about the warranty, so tough luck for him.

Maybe i'm missing something here?

It's just been too long.
 
mac jones said:
Well let me get this straight. His problem happened out side of the warranty right?

So what's the problem? I don't get it. He had some warranty, then it ended. You didn't lie about the warranty, so tough luck for him.

Maybe i'm missing something here?

It's just been too long.
Click to expand...

It hasn't been too long, because the buyer went and purchased AppleCare, which extended the warranty so the buyer is still under warranty. The buyer purchased AppleCare since the OP didn't state anything was 3rd party, so the working assumption is that everything would be covered.

As someone above wrote, when OP put up the ad stating laptop was still under warranty, he had a responsibility to highlight the items that would NOT be covered by said warranty. OP didn't do this.

If you want to be technical, he lied by omission re: the 3rd party HD.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission

This entire thread strikes a nerve with me, as I was on the receiving end of something similar with eBay and found out about 6 months later when I went to get warranty work. Eventually PayPal sided with me, I got a full refund plus shipping but was NOT worth the hassle and back & forth to get it resolved.
 
Sine he went to paypal before even trying to contact you about it, I would tell him where he could go and what he could suck on; however, you seem like a much nicer person than me lol. I really don't think you did anything wrong or owe him anything, if he hadn't handled the issue like an assclown I might have been more inclined to help him RMA the drive(assuming it didn't cost me anything or take more than 5 min).

I think he's bluffing about the charge back, it's been so long I don't see how he could. I would just make sure you didn't have any money in your paypal, and that it isn't hooked to any back account or credit card(I don't really know how paypal works with any kinds of disputes or anything), then send him a email back that pretty much says "you're SOL, have a nice life."
 
My 2 cents

I think he can still a charge back via his credit card, as this has been an issue with me before, and one of the reasons to be cautious of eBay.

A hard drive can fail anytime, and in fact one hard drive I bought failed within 2 weeks of buying it.

The hard drive you upgraded to, will it still be under warranty? If so simply organise for the return and ask him to return it, or, ask him to send you the hard drive and replace it for him via RMA. He should be happy with this, anyone who knows computing knows things can fail.

I am sure if I were the seller, I would probably have not mentioned the non-stock hard drive, as I would not have thought about it.....However if I were the buyer and I did have applecare/purchased it, I would probably be a little upset.


For the hassle - I would say arrange an RMA or send him a new hard drive -stock size and class - probably cost you about £30-£40 - trouble over.....

Painful but not too financially troublesome little ebay lesson.
 
If you are a one off seller then you have various choices.

But if you sell regularly then I think you have to make reasonable efforts to keep the buyer (customer) happy.

I would help him get a replacement HD.

In hindsight it would be good to describe things like this in ads. I would want to know if buying.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Update #1:

The conversations below were through email, not eBay. He bought Apple Care for $280 (until May 31, 2013.) The hard drive has a 2 year limited warranty.

I told him the drive he has is still under a 2 year warranty (Seagate from NewEgg.) I sent him the links to get it handled. He said he doesn't mind doing that, but he wants the stock 320GB drive sent to him. He wants it in case there are "future issues". He keeps saying he feels like he wasted money on AC if it doesn't even cover the hard drive. If the drive fails again out of the Seagate warranty time frame, there's still time the MBP is covered under AC.

I said if I send you the drive, I want the other drive in return. He said he just wants the stock drive as a backup. I said that doesn't sound fair, but he disagrees.

You all bring valid points to the table. I understand where the buyer is coming from, IF there really is an issue, but even so, he has the power to get the hard drive replaced for free. And....it's been 6 months. I morally want to send him the drive and call it a day, but it doesn't seem right. Furthermore, he keeps saying he feels duped since the HDD and RAM aren't stock. BUT THE RAM IS STOCK! I told him if Apple is telling him the RAM is 3rd party, then they're clueless. I never touched it.

Also, my eBay ad said everything was under warranty until May 31, 2011. That's 110% true. True, the hard drive was under Seagate's warranty, but even so, every component was under warranty!

Update #2:

I just logged into PayPal. I searched ALL disputes. It turns out he tried opening a case against me yesterday, but it was instantly shut because it was more than 45 days past the sale date. PayPal has a message to "work with the buyer to resolve the issue" and "this case can be reopened if we receive excessive buyer complaints."

Does that mean more complaints from THIS buyer, or future buyers?
And if this case has been closed already, is he still able to open a chargeback case?

I've tried unlinking my bank account and credit cards from PayPal, but I can't because I had a transaction just a few days ago. I'm hoping in a few days I can remove all my info. HOPEFULLY.
 
gullySn0wCat said:
He sounds like a dick, but has a point. Why didn't you just send him the stock drive in the first place?
Click to expand...

You mean installed in the laptop? I installed the larger, 3rd party drive for more space. I sold it with the larger drive because that's what I had been using. This wasn't intentional. I didn't leave out the 3rd party hardware info on purpose.
 
You are a reasonable person and because he wants both drives he seems less reasonable.

Surely a compromise is the best thing.

If you help him get a replacement surely that is fair.

The machine is covered by AC regardless now.

The fact that the HD isn't is not 100% relevant.

Some users will take their HD out before repair due to privacy issues or other.

My view is if he won't accept the compromise position then he becomes unreasonable and you are less obliged to deal with him. Maybe get him to post his view on the forum and we can adjudicate ;)
 
jenzjen said:
This has nothing to do with research, the OP's ad stated under warranty until May 2011, so everything should be covered, because it would have been had OP not installed 3rd party stuff (that he didn't disclose after the warranty, i.e. under warranty EXCEPT HD WHICH IS 3RD PARTY or something similar).
Click to expand...

it is covered under warranty though...


akkkmed said:
Thanks for all the replies.

Update #1:

The conversations below were through email, not eBay. He bought Apple Care for $280 (until May 31, 2013.) The hard drive has a 2 year limited warranty.

I told him the drive he has is still under a 2 year warranty (Seagate from NewEgg.) I sent him the links to get it handled. He said he doesn't mind doing that, but he wants the stock 320GB drive sent to him. He wants it in case there are "future issues". He keeps saying he feels like he wasted money on AC if it doesn't even cover the hard drive. If the drive fails again out of the Seagate warranty time frame, there's still time the MBP is covered under AC.

I said if I send you the drive, I want the other drive in return. He said he just wants the stock drive as a backup. I said that doesn't sound fair, but he disagrees.

You all bring valid points to the table. I understand where the buyer is coming from, IF there really is an issue, but even so, he has the power to get the hard drive replaced for free. And....it's been 6 months. I morally want to send him the drive and call it a day, but it doesn't seem right. Furthermore, he keeps saying he feels duped since the HDD and RAM aren't stock. BUT THE RAM IS STOCK! I told him if Apple is telling him the RAM is 3rd party, then they're clueless. I never touched it.

Also, my eBay ad said everything was under warranty until May 31, 2011. That's 110% true. True, the hard drive was under Seagate's warranty, but even so, every component was under warranty!

Update #2:

I just logged into PayPal. I searched ALL disputes. It turns out he tried opening a case against me yesterday, but it was instantly shut because it was more than 45 days past the sale date. PayPal has a message to "work with the buyer to resolve the issue" and "this case can be reopened if we receive excessive buyer complaints."

Does that mean more complaints from THIS buyer, or future buyers?
And if this case has been closed already, is he still able to open a chargeback case?

I've tried unlinking my bank account and credit cards from PayPal, but I can't because I had a transaction just a few days ago. I'm hoping in a few days I can remove all my info. HOPEFULLY.
Click to expand...

send him that hard drive but charge him for it if he wants it so bad. what ever you do, do not send him the hard drive for free. don't let him win.

he can't open another dispute with the same transaction. the only thing he can do is do a chargeback through his credit card company, who will call PayPal and not allow that **** to happen because it's too late and also has the computer in his hands.

he's just using scare tactics against you.

btw.. you should check yourself if he actually purchased apple care.. you must have the SN handy somewhere? check online
 
englishman said:
You are a reasonable person and because he wants both drives he seems less reasonable.

Surely a compromise is the best thing.

If you help him get a replacement surely that is fair.

The machine is covered by AC regardless now.

The fact that the HD isn't is not 100% relevant.

Some users will take their HD out before repair due to privacy issues or other.

My view is if he won't accept the compromise position then he becomes unreasonable and you are less obliged to deal with him. Maybe get him to post his view on the forum and we can adjudicate ;)
Click to expand...

Haha, I actually wouldn't doubt if he's already a member here :eek:
I'm really, really, really worried about a credit card chargeback though... Can the CC company come after ME?!?!? That's the last piece of info I need to figure out before I make a decision.
 
akkkmed said:
Haha, I actually wouldn't doubt if he's already a member here :eek:
I'm really, really, really worried about a credit card chargeback though... Can the CC company come after ME?!?!? That's the last piece of info I need to figure out before I make a decision.
Click to expand...

Don't bother with taking off all your PayPal information because if you don't even out a negative balance, then they will come after your credit rating.

The buyer is not being reasonable. Tell him that he either has to PAY for the stock HDD or that he needs to send back the old HDD (bigger right?). Also state that you will send the old HDD back if you see any types of physical alteration, including water damage and dents which indicate a drop of some sort. Say that you already say his attempt to open a dispute and that it failed. Tell him that he's treading on thin ice right now because technically you don't have to do anything.

Side note: I hate scum buyers like this. They try to abuse PayPal and CC companies in order to get everything they want.
 
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