|Oct 17, 2011, 01:49 AM||#1|
L2 Computer Inc. - Anyone ever use them before?
They specialize in fixing logic boards...for a reasonable price. I was wondering if anyone ever used them or are they reliable, trusted, etc? I can't find much reviews on them except on their page. They are in New York, so I'm no where near them and would have to mail my laptop in if I ever needed a logic board repair...and that kind of makes me iffy. So if anyone knows anything about them, I would like to know! Thank you! (Or does anyone else know of a place who does a good job with logic board repairs and wouldn't make you pay a hefty sum?)
|Aug 13, 2013, 05:00 PM||#3|
Regarding L2 Computer, Inc. and inadequate repair work
Regarding L2 Computer, Inc. and inadequate repair work
Beware of repair shops that provide inadequate warranty policies to cover up their incomplete, or sub-standard, work. If you do business with such shops, you will only expose yourself to unnecessary frustration and disappointment.
Unfortunately, L2 Computer Inc. appears to be one such computer repair shop.
L2 Computer only provides a 30-day warranty to cover their repairs. While you may think that such a chintzy warranty policy is par for the course, when you really examine it, you will conclude that it is not.
If your computer breaks down within that 30-day warranty, L2 Computer will repair it again for free. However, if your allegedly repaired computer begins to fail after 30 days and you are foolish enough to send it back to L2 Computer again to fix the problem(s) you had pre-paid them full price to fix the first time around, then they will charge you yet again to do the repairs--this time at a "discount" for half of the original price you had paid. (Plus shipping charges, of course.)
And, if your computer manages to work OK for six months, but it again becomes so dysfunctional that it drives you crazy, you can send your ailing computer back to L2 Computer, but you will have to pay full price once again, because the clock gets reset at that six-month point. So, if they don't get you for half-price after the 30 days milestone, they have a chance to milk you for more money after 6 months have elapsed--if you're dumb enough to fall for their game, that is. That's some business model!
I speak from experience. I sent a PowerPC-based iMac G5 to L2 Computer for repair, because it would not start up. I would hear a chime, but the computer would not go further than the black screen which accompanied the start-up chime.
Within about four weeks, L2 Computer returned my iMac G5 to me, and, I must admit, I was initially pleased to see that it would start up. My first impression was that I thought they were miracle workers. But that first impression soon faded with time. Although the allegedly newly repaired iMac G5 took a lot longer to start up than before, and although it would occasionally crash for no reason I could discern, for the most part, I was pleased to observe that they appeared to have breathed new life into my computer. That was my experience during the first month.
The iMac G5 was at least able to start-up (on occasion), but it definitely did not behave as if it were new, or completely fixed. Since a local shop to which I had taken the iMac G5 for repair could not do anything with it during the six months they had it in their possession but tell me that "something" was wrong with the motherboard, for which they charged me about $100 as a "diagnostics" fee, I was thankful for the small favor which L2 Computer gave me. I felt that I could tolerate an occasional freeze-up or random crash just to get the damn thing to start-up at all.
However, in the second month of service, the iMac G5 began to freeze up and crash more often. Sometimes, it would simply refuse to start-up, too. The iMac G5 would either never get to a gray screen, or if it did reach a gray screen, the gear would not spin. Or, if the gear did spin, it would stop spinning within a few seconds, but never advance beyond that point.
Sometimes, the fan would just kick in moments after I pressed the power on button.When the fan kicked in, the start-up process was doomed: the iMac G5 would never start-up after that, as if the lazy computer was laughing at me, saying "Stop trying to put me to work, I just want to stay cool and refreshed."
Sometimes, I could get the iMac G5 to start-up by holding down the Option key during the start-up process and selecting either the Leopard or Panther partition as my start-up volume. That technique did not always work, however. When it did work, the iMac G5 would hum along for a little while--maybe for a few minutes, maybe for a few hours--but it would inevitably freeze up, compelling me to perform a Forced Shut Down by holding in the Power ON button for several seconds.
By the third month of service, the frequency of the iMac's refusal to start-up increased faster than a spoiled child yelling and screaming for attention. So did the frequency of the freezes during those few times I did somehow manage--usually after several attempts--to get the iMac to start-up.
I tried to see if there was a pattern in the freezes, but there was none. The iMac would crash for no reason at all, whether I was in the Finder or browsing the web, or using some other application. The cursor would freeze; the clock would stop; the fan would kick in (or not); and my only recourse then was to force it to shut down.
For a computer as lazy as this one was turning out to be, the iMac G5 would never go into Sleep mode. This was true from the first day I received the computer from L2 Computer. Although it had no problem sleeping in its previous incarnation before the trouble occurred, now, after being "repaired" by L2 Computer, it could not go to sleep.
Often, after the screen saver kicked in due to inactivity, followed by a black screen, the computer would become unresponsive to any attempt to activate it, even though the power was on. Sometimes, the iMac would just freeze up and kick the fan on, again as if to say: "I'm tired, and I'm going to cool myself off, sucker. You better press the Power ON button now, because I'm done working today." Sometimes the computer would freeze while the screensaver was running, turning the normally flowing flurries into a static, dead image.
In my attempts to trouble-shoot the problem over these past three months without bothering the repair shop once again, I ran my hard disk maintenance utility software (TechTool Pro; DiskWarrior; Drive Genius) dozens of times, but that did not work in solving the underlying problem. Using Firewire, I would occasionally start-up the computer from the external hard drive clones created by SuperDuper, but using a different hard drive as the start-up volume did not solve the problem either.
I tried optimizing the hard drive to eliminate file fragmentation. That did not help. I rebuilt the directory dozens of times, using the DiskWarrior CD as my startup disk. That did not help.
Finally, I even used the original Leopard installation DVD to Archive and Install a fresh operating system, but did not solve the problem either. The start-up procedure is still a crap shoot: you never know for sure if this particular roll of the dice will result in a successful start-up. Even with a brand new operating system, the freezing-up occurs at random times with no discernible pattern.
After spending innumerable hours trying to trouble-shoot the problem over the three months since L2 Computer "repaired" my iMac, I reluctantly arrived at the conclusion that my iMac G5's problem must be hardware-related. Unfortunately, this means that L2 Computer had essentially failed to do the job for which I had pre-paid them. Although I might have initially been impressed with their magic, it did not take very long before I began to curse and condemn them for releasing such shoddy work to me.
When L2 Computer shipped my computer back to me, they did not include a report on what they had done. So, their "repairs" were a bit of a mystery to me. I had pre-paid them $327.15, and I had spent another $28.75 for UPS shipping. That's a lot of money. But, as I was weighing my options regarding what to do with my iMac, I had decided that repairing my old iMac G5 would be much cheaper than buying a new Intel Mac computer, especially when I had to factor in all the new software applications I'd have to get to run on it to get an equivalent level of productivity. So, I opted for the repair, with the hope and the expectation that the problem would be fixed once and for all.
By believing that L2 Computer really does have, as they declare on their website when you are about to place an order, an "over 90% success rate on our logic board repairs," I trusted them to solve my computer's problem. I now realize that I was wrong. My trust was misplacedóboth in their technical expertise and in their business policy.
Additionally, I had relied too heavily on the positive testimonials posted on the L2 Computer website, all of which had, naturally, been approved ahead of time by L2 Computer management, since there were no critical comments whatsoever to give a new customer a balanced perspective. My comments are intended to balance off those glowing remarks, if, indeed, any of them are genuine.
Some people might ask, "Why did you not contact them sooner, when you first recognized problems?" My answer is that, although I did encounter all of these problems during the initial 30-day warranty period, the rate at which the start-up failures and the freeze-ups occurred, while troublesome, was not as frequent, nor as alarming, as they became after that 30 days warranty period. I thought that I could live with them.
Besides, I consider it essential that a Mac user must perform his due diligence prior to complaining to a computer repair shop that their so-called repair was nothing but a temporary band-aid that did not really or completely solve the original problem I presented to them. I needed more information, more ammunition, with which to complain to them that their work turned out to be unsatisfactory and that the ethical thing for them to do is to make good on the job for which I paid them a hefty amount of money.
Having exceeded my limit of tolerance with all the false start-ups and the random, out-of-nowhere freezes and crashes, I finally decided to call them and report my experience with my computer since they "repaired" it. In the course of my conversation, I naturally asked them to make good on their work, to give me back a fully functioning computer that would not drive me crazy every time I wanted to use it.
No, they said today (July 14, 2013), we won't do any more repairs on your iMac G5 unless you pay us once again. This time, however, we will only charge you 50% of what you originally paid, because your 30-day warranty period--during which we would have made further repairs for free--has expired. That's our policy, and we're sticking to it, the customer service rep insisted.
When I complained that L2 Computer obviously had not done the job right the first time and that, from an ethical standpoint, they ought to have the integrity to stand by their work, they steadfastly refused to make good on their work without further payment. I warned the customer service representative with whom I spoke that he better consult his manager before holding so firmly to his company's 30-day warranty policy else I would write a detailed, negative report on my dealings with L2 Computer. He put me on hold several times as he consulted with his boss, but the manager also failed to see the big picture of how important it is to make customers happy: the best his manager could do, said the rep, was to knock of $20 from their 50% repair fee, effectively asking me to pay them another $150 (plus shipping) to do the job right.
No way, I said. "Why should I pay you more money to fix a problem that you failed to adequately analyze and solve the first time around," I asked?
"Why should I pay you more money in order to once again subject myself to your unreasonable 30-day warranty period, when I have absolutely no confidence that you can do the job right, or that the computer will be fixed for the long-term, without requiring additional band-aid repairs like the one you previously performed? Do you think that I'm so foolish that I will let you milk me for money forever?"
I asked the customer service rep if he ever read the reviews customers posted on Amazon.com about products they were considering buying. He said yes, he did. I then asked him if he thought potential buyers were influenced by negative comments that exposed the weaknesses and flaws of the product. He again said yes.
To be fair, I then cautioned him that I would write a very negative report of my experience with L2 Computer. I also warned him that their failure to modify their repair policy to the point that they would truly stand by their work could end up costing them lots of lost revenue. I also told him that L2 Computer is not the only repair shop providing laptop and computer repair. My choice came down to them or a repair shop in California, I said, and I chose L2 Computer only because I live in New York, and because L2 Computer's service fee and the shipping charges were cheaper, by comparison. In retrospect, that was my first mistake!
Neither the customer service rep nor his manager would be swayed by my threat to publish a scathingly negative, but honest, review. So, the conversation with them ended, and my conversation with potential customers like you begins.
I sent them a copy of this review, and I gave them one month's grace in which to come to their senses and respond in a positive way. Since they failed to do so, I have decided to go along and publish my report for all would-be customers to take into consideration before sending them your computer.
You have just been warned! If you still want to give your business to a repair shop like that, at least you know what you will have to deal with, should you, too, find yourself at the losing end of an unsatisfactory, unfulfilling transaction. You'll have only yourself to blame for trying to beat the odds.
As for me, I will not be sending my iMac in to L2 Computer, Inc. for any additional repairs. I will either retire it, or send it elsewhere for repair. As I explained to the customer service rep, if I were to send my iMac G5 back to L2 Computer, it would be like taking my car back to a mechanic who had put inferior parts in my car--parts that would last through the 30 days of his repair shop's "policy," but whose parts would fail soon after that warranty period expired, either because his diagnosis skills were inadequate, or his parts were inferior, or both.
In short, L2 Computer fooled me once: I won't let them do it again. You'd think that after all my complaining, along with several other negative reviews written by other customers, L2 Computer would get the point and extend their warranty period to a respectable six months. If they did that, I assured him, L2 Computer would garner all of the business in the country, because a warranty like commands respect. It trumpets the fact that the technicians know their work and that the managers stand for quality.
However, instead of taking the high road, L2 Computer is electing to stick with its unfair, unethical 30-day honeymoon period warranty policy. Instead of learning from their mistakes; they want customers like me to pay for them. Well, I refuse to do that. So, I hope that this review, along with others like it, will teach them a lesson where they can best understand it: in their pocketbook, due to lost revenue from potential customers who turned away from them.
I hate to come across as stereotypical or disparaging about the economic policies which drive one of major competitor nations, but all Americans know that China floods the United States market with a lot of cheap and ultimately inferior products. L2 Computer Inc., being a Chinese owned-and-operated shop, no doubt draws upon such sub-standard manufacturing techniques and philosophies, a fact which was verified to me when I called the shop after several weeks had elapsed during their repairs on my computer to inquire about the reason for the delay. I was told that they were waiting for parts from China. Great! Just what my computer needs: a part that doesn't fit or won't work for very long.
Today, in the absence of a written report accompanying my computer, I learned that L2 Computer Inc "fixed" my iMac's original problem by installing three new capacitors and "repairing" the original video card. Then, during their testing, since the computer started-up, they considered the problem solved, so they shipped it off to me.
Obviously, they were wrong then. And they are wrong now. If L2 Computer deludes itself into believing that I will trust them to put yet more inferior replacement parts that might actually work for 30 days, but will likely fail within a short time after that, then they are behaving as irrationally as my computer is. Forcing unsophisticated customers to consider throwing more good money at a problem, which, like a calculus, they may never be able to truly and completely solve, is not a good business policy.
Since such a business policy is lacking in integrity, it certainly does not inspire confidence and respect. Regardless of the business one is engaged in, people who do good quality work always stand behind their work: they don't try to extort more money from their customers due to their incompetence and their failure to do the job right the first time!
I've lived in the Far East for over four years as a Peace Corps Volunteer, so I tend to see L2 Computer's failure to understand not so much as a cultural problem, though there may be an element of that occurring which is making it impossible for L2 Computer's management to grasp what a lousy warranty policy they have, but as a problem of individual, short-sighted, somewhat greedy human beings. Accordingly, I tend to see their short-sightedness as an example of a poorly managed business enterprise. I cannot support such a business.
On its website, L2 Computer states that they "have over 90% success rate on our logic board repairs." You would think that a company which could boast such success would also have the integrity to make good on the other 10% in order to assert their service as one to be trusted. Apparently not. Their short-sighted vision won't allow them to see that far.
Of course, who really knows what their true success rate is? L2 Computer can claim whatever they want, but to prove fraud, someone would need to examine their books and do a proper account. I'm not about to do that. Why should I bother? Just putting out the word should be sufficient to the wise.
Besides, customers desperate to have their computers fixed tend to believe success stories because that's what they want to believe: whether they're being told the truth or not is another story.
I just shared my story with you. Do with it what you will.
But, as I said in the beginning, beware. Be aware.
P.S. For more revealing insights into the L2 Computer operation, you can do a Google search for "l2 computer inc review" and follow the links you find there.
I have included links to a few of those reviews below. I only wish I had come across such warnings about L2 Computer prior to electing to do business with them. Now I know that my experience with L2 Computer is not an isolated incident: it is their standard way of doing business.
L2 Computers, 9sky, dqsales: Fraud and theft. New York, New York.
Better Business Bureau reports
Mac Rumors: L2 Computer Inc. - Anyone ever use them before?
|Aug 23, 2013, 02:33 AM||#4|
My opinion of L2,
I'd like to preface this by saying that L2 is about 39 blocks away from me - a half mile. If they went out of business, I'd absorb maybe $5k-$10k/mo in new jobs right off the bat because we're in the same field, selling the same parts, products, and services to the same general client bases. So yeah, if you're bashing L2, I'd be inclined to agree with everything you said, because it would benefit me.
THAT BEING SAID.
I disagree with almost everything negative said about L2 here.
There's a reason for those reviews. L2 takes the crap jobs no one else will. Yes, your computer probably died after a few months when they fixed it.. that's a consequence of fixing a computer with a what, 8, 9, 10 year old motherboard?
There is a reason that repair has a 30 day warranty. They're fixing an old piece of ****, with parts that have to be used/refurbished at this point because your computer was discontinued while I was still in high school. Your machine has a motherboard inside a below-average-ventilated-case and is damn near eight years old. Anyone who would offer a warranty longer than 30 SECONDS doing that particular job to that particular computer would be nuts. They do not have a choice between offering new or refurbished. They have a choice between refurbished or babysitting your computer for six months - like the local tech who charged you $100 for not doing ****. IMO, the latter is a much worse crime.
When every other computer repair shop says "**** off", L2 says "yes, we can help you!" As a result, yes, L2 is going to get a bunch of **** reviews online others aren't. Others are wise enough to simply not deal with the trouble. L2 takes everyone in and does their best.
Of the dwindling few shops that do component level repair, L2 is in the 1% that will revive your decade-old-POS if you ask nicely... but again, expectations going in are important here. It's fkn old.
I personally do my best to advise people when something's going to be trouble. I base this on experience. 30 tickets a day for enough time and you see the same problems, the same faults, and with some research find out why they're occuring. I advise people and give them the truth so they don't waste money on fixing something that will fail again. You know what that gets me?
You should just do what I asked you to.
Why won't you take my money?
That's rude, I asked you to do something for me.
And I'm starting to learn my lesson. You see, what I'm doing is treating others the way I'd like to be treated. I would want someone to tell me if I'm spending $200 to fix my $200 air conditioner. I would want someone to tell me if the bike I'm having fixed will break down in a month due to condition, age, or parts availability. But that's not everyone.
Regardless of the advice I give to try and save people from misery, they ignore it - and often go so far as to get angry when I say I can fix this, but you will very likely see a similar related issue not long down the line. As a result, I cannot recommend you repair your computer.
L2 has clearly learned this lesson much sooner than me. You see, they're business people, they're not trying to change an industry through ethical behavior... that's my idealistic crapshoot goal, and as time goes on, I find out more and more, it just doesn't work that way. Back to the point.
You can advise consumers on what they should do, but in the end, people often become angry if you do not make them feel good about what it is they want to do. Same people will curse you up and down when your predicted reality comes true & you don't fix it again for free until they come to their senses and buy something from the modern age.
L2 told you they have a 90% rate of success... this isn't a lie. This means you fell into the 10%, which isn't surprising since it's almost 10 years old.
I also cringe at the phone conversation where you actually interview the dude about reviews. It's one thing to say "I'm leaving a bad review" but to actually lead into it with "do you use product reviews on amazon" and to bring up their lost revenue, why? L2 has no lost revenue to worry about due to bad reviews because they are taking in jobs that no one else is doing. No one else in NYC is going to fix that 8 year old iMac motherboard.
Also, that comment on Chinese culture/economics is total ********! Over 75% of the AMERICAN OWNED laptop repair shops in New York are outsourcing all of their board repairs to L2 because THEY AREN'T DOING IT THEMSELVES.
The Chinese are often the ONLY PEOPLE EVEN DOING THIS WORK AT ALL! It has absolutely NOTHING to do about the low quality of a Chinese product. Americans consider themselves "too good" to deal with this ****. An American with a strong engineering background & the practical skillset to sit at a bench and do this kind of stuff wants to make $200k/yr working for the NSA, not $18/hour fixing your nine year old iMac. Chinese workmanship is something of value, to be respected for what it is - not devalued and trashed as lower quality.
Let me get this through to everyone - Not a single mother *G^F# part in your computer comes from America.. Of course the **** comes from China. Here in America, we manufacture substandard automobiles funded by taxpayer bailout money, not microprocessors or motherboard chipsets. It's so easy to sit on a high horse and **** on a Chinese business model without understanding anything about the work they are doing or the industry they are in.
They could close down retail altogether and still print money because as I said, they welcome everyone with open arms. Any problem, any machine. In terms of revenue, 99% of the customers don't actually READ the reviews that go on for pages, I poll 'em, so you're shooting yourself in the foot with that novel.
Yeah, they have bad reviews. Like five of them... and they take in over 50 tickets a day. For almost five years. It's one thing for a company to get by on gimmicks in the short term, but over five years, a company operating in the most expensive area of the U.S. would probably close if they sucked at what they did and there were choices. There are none.
If anything, L2 is guilty of not telling people "wait, stop, you're sending us an old piece of ****! BUY A NEW ONE ALREADY!!!" That's it.
Just my two cents. If you want to give them a shot, go for it. If you send in something over 5 years old and it doesn't last you long, don't say I didn't tell you so. Same goes if you send a board to me, or brickfence, or assetgenie. Give anyone who does this, Chinese or American, an 820-1881-A that takes 15 minutes to boot up and I'll sign you over my store lease if it lasts a full year without something else dying. Old **** should stay dead. JMO.
Hand soldering QFN chips on an Apple motherboard
Yes, you CAN fix a new Macbook Air replacing the LCD ONLY!
Macbook parts for sale
Last edited by l.a.rossmann; Aug 23, 2013 at 02:58 AM.
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