T-Mobile USA Spectrum Refarming Lets Some iPhone Users Access 3G Data Speeds

[Diode]

Originally Posted by crisss1205

Yea, the best ping I have seen on 3G was 97ms and the fastest download I have seen is 11 Mbps on HSPA+

People are getting 25mbit+ on T-Mobile 42mbps network deployments.

[Spectrum Abuser]

Originally Posted by rjohnstone

I get 7-9Mbps download speeds on AT&T 3G (faux 4G) all the time, but the ping time in the screen grab is BS for 3G.
55ms ping response screams WiFi.
The best ping response over 3G I've ever seen is 135ms.

I receive 35-65ms every time I do speed tests on 3G.. But then again I live in a upgraded back-haul area with a cellular tower existing not even a mile from my house.

[rjohnstone]

Originally Posted by Spectrum Abuser

I receive 35-65ms every time I do speed tests on 3G.. But then again I live in a upgraded back-haul area with a cellular tower existing not even a mile from my house.

I'm in an upgraded backhaul area myself, we even have AT&T LTE in the area now.
Still get 130+ms ping times, but I'm not complaining.
The download speeds are fantastic.

[shanmugam]

T-mobile already using ATT 3G network?

[jmcgeejr]

Originally Posted by jmcgeejr

My wife is on tmo with a 3gs here in Kirkland, WA (Seattle Metro). When I get home 2 hours or so, I will see if I can get her phone to pick up 3g. Stay tuned folks

No 3g here on the east side of the water in seattle.

[aznjonny]

No 3G yet in the San Gabriel Valley (Arcadia, California)

[fredfnord]

Originally Posted by britboyj

This kills me. If I have no contract, have paid off my phone and I can buy an unlocked version of the exact same phone directly from Apple, what's their legal ground now?

Their legal ground is, 'Sure, you own the phone. When did we ever say any different? However, we have no obligation to alter the phone in any way for you. You own a telephone and the software on it, and gee, the software on it just happens to be locked to AT&T. My goodness. I guess you can use it on our network, or use it as a paperweight. What? Oh, yes, it's perfectly legal for you to unlock it. Go right ahead, we won't stop you."

[blue22]

Originally Posted by vartanarsen

Their ground, whther legal or not, is that they helped you buy that iPhone you are holding in your hand with like a $400 subsidy...therefore, you are stuck with them...if you didnt want that, you shouldnt have let them help you buy that iPhone yuo are holding.
Simple Economics

Well, "legally" they're not obligated to accommodate their customers unlock requests, but since they're the only major carrier that outright refuses to do this [normal & reasonable service] for their customers this only confirms beyond any shadow of a doubt that AT&T is in fact managed by a bunch of greedy cutthroat a$$hole$.

[ThomasJL]

The iPhone 4S comes with Qualcomm's MDM6610 chip, which supports T-Mobile USA's 1700 MHz HSPA+ 3G band. Apple disabled that support because Apple greedily supported AT&T's attempts to acquire T-Mobile USA and kill off HSPA+ 3G on the 1700 band in order to use the 1700 spectrum for LTE.

Hopefully Apple will pull its head out of its a$$ and create a software update that will stop crippling the iPhone 4S by allowing it to recognize the 1700 MHz band.

Apple's greediness in supporting AT&T is precisely why Android has become so popular and seized so much market share. If Apple had made the iPhone available to T-Mobile USA from the very beginning in 2007, Android would not be anywhere near as popular as it is today. Apple has no one but its greedy self to blame for the rise and massive success of Android. Sure, iOS is a far superior OS in comparison to Android, but by limiting it to one carrier (in greedy hopes for short-term windfall profits), Apple created a vacuum that was begging to be filled by another smartphone OS.

Quit whining about Android, Apple. You, Apple, by your greedy support of AT&T, are to blame for Android's success and market share that could have largely been yours had you made the iPhone available to T-Mobile from the start.

[iExpensive]

Hey, I live in Nevada!

Looks like I should return my Sprint 4S and buy an unlocked one and hop on T-mobile's network?

[OceanView]

Originally Posted by iExpensive

Hey, I live in Nevada!

Looks like I should return my Sprint 4S and buy an unlocked one and hop on T-mobile's network?

Yes, you should be good to go.
Let us know how it performs there.

[icanhazapple]

for these 'iPhone capable' areas, can you use a factory unlocked iPhone 4S?

[pilot1226]

Originally Posted by icanhazapple

for these 'iPhone capable' areas, can you use a factory unlocked iPhone 4S?

Yes, because T-Mobile and AT&T both operate on GSM.

If you aren't in a refarmed area, then you will be operating on EDGE Data which is slower than 3G data. If you are in a refarmed area, seems like you can use 3G data.

[Ugg]

I got an email from T-Mobile the other day offering a free 4G Mobile Hot Spot with a monthly rate of $19.99. On the web site page, they show the following northern California cities where 4G is available:

Anaheim
Burbank
Fresno
Glendale
Irvine
Los Angeles
Long Beach
Merced
Modesto
Monterey
Napa
Oakland
Ontario
Palm Springs
Sacramento
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
Santa Rosa-Petaluma
Salinas
Stockton
Vallejo-Fairfield
Visalia

It's a great price.

[pilot1226]

Originally Posted by Ugg

I got an email from T-Mobile the other day offering a free 4G Mobile Hot Spot with a monthly rate of $19.99. On the web site page, they show the following northern California cities where 4G is available:

It's a great price.

How much data usage?

While I certainly agree this is a good price, the heart of the matter is I want to get an iPhone to streamline my life, I'd rather not have to lug around another device to get cellular data on the go. But, it is an option nonetheless.

I noticed the T-Mobile value plan has 2 lines with unlimited talk and text with 200 MB data prior to throttle for 90 per month - so 45 per line. That's not bad. With the 20/mo for the 4G you're looking at 110 per month which is affordable still. I guess it's a matter of whether or not I want to lug around a hotspot with me as well.

Shrug


Talked to T-Mobile support again, still would not discuss the refarming with me. So either the phone agents have no idea it's going on or they're being very hush-hush about it. Anyone near the NYC area that's able to say whether or not you're getting 3G on your iPhone?

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by pilot1226

How much data usage?

Here's the fine print:

*$19.99 Monthly Price includes Mobile Broadband Overage-Free Classic™ Plus plan with up to 2GB full-speed data, after $10/mo. existing voice customer discount. T-Mobile's HSPA+ 4G network, including increased speeds, not available everywhere. See coverage details. Limited time offer; subject to change. Taxes & fees add'l. Not all plans avail. on all devices. Mobile Broadband Plan: Post-paid only. Partial megabytes rounded up. Full speeds avail. up to 2GB; then slowed to up to 2G speeds for rest of billing cycle. Plan features avail. For domestic use only; no domestic roaming. Roaming charges may apply to use via non-T-Mobile-owned Wi-Fi networks. Int'l use requires int'l service activation; usage does not apply to plan data allotment; int'l rates apply. Credit approval, $35/line activation fee or $18/line upgrade fee, and two-year contract with up to $200/line early termination fee req'd; deposit may apply. If you switch plans, you may be bound by existing or extended term (incl. early cancellation provisions) and/or charged an up to $200 fee. You may be unable to switch to some plans. Regulatory Programs Fee (not a tax or government-mandated charge) of $1.61 per line/month applies. Taxes approx. 6-28% of your monthly bill. $10 Voice Discount: Requires one other line of post-paid/FlexPay service with T-Mobile on same account. Mail-in Rebate: Activation of qualifying plan req'd; must remain active and in good standing at time rebate is processed. Limited to specific model; supplies may be limited. We reserve the right to substitute different models of equal or greater value. One device per eligible account. Rebate provided in the form of a VISA card. Allow 6-8 weeks for processing. See rebate form for details. Coverage: Coverage not avail. everywhere. Abnormal Usage: Service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted for misuse, abnormal use, interference with our network or ability to provide quality service to other users, or significant roaming. See brochures and Terms and Conditions (including arbitration provision) for additional information at www.T-Mobile.com. Device image simulated. America's Largest 4G Network is a registered trademark of T-Mobile USA, Inc. T-Mobile and the magenta color are registered of T-Mobile USA, Inc. © 2011 T-Mobile USA, Inc.

[andiwm2003]

So I'm still puzzled. Does this mean wherever T-Mobile has 4G data coverage the iPhone will run on 3G? If this is the case then most of the Boston Metro area would be covered with 4G and should allow 3G speed on iPhones. Can anybody confirm that?

Thanks.

[rumz]

Originally Posted by andiwm2003

So I'm still puzzled. Does this mean wherever T-Mobile has 4G data coverage the iPhone will run on 3G? If this is the case then most of the Boston Metro area would be covered with 4G and should allow 3G speed on iPhones. Can anybody confirm that?

Thanks.

ONLY if T-Mobile switches 3G / 4G on their 1900mhz spectrum in those areas. Currently (and historically) their 3G/4G is operating on other bands (1700mhz / 2100mhz AWS), while the only data available on T-Mobile on 1900mhz is EDGE (2g, much slower).

So it remains to be seen how widespread this "re-farming" will be of the 1900mhz spectrum on T-Mobile-- right now it's only confirmed to be happening in a small number of areas.

To emphasize how limited availability is right now, I'm in Utah, on T-Mobile, using a GSM world phone (not an iPhone), and I haven't yet noticed getting any 3G connectivity, even though I'm in T-Mobile's 4G coverage area (I do have a T-Mobile hotspot so I'm aware of 4G reception / availability). Like other iPhone users, I'm limited to EDGE data on my phone because it wasn't built to support T-Mobiles unique spectrum / band. If I were to switch to AT&T, I'd get 3G.

Edit: I recommend reading the source for this article:

http://www.tmonews.com/2011/12/unloc...-true-sort-of/

Edit 2:

The comments are even more illuminating in terms of the technical potential for running HSPA+ on the 1900mhz (referred to as PCS) spectrum:

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

A single 3G/4G W-CDMA carrier channel is 5 MHz x 5 MHz bandwidth for 10 MHz total spectrum outlay. Thus far, T-Mobile has deployed 3G/4G W-CDMA primarily or exclusively in its AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum. In T-Mobile's AWS 20+ MHz licensed bandwidth markets, it is using W-CDMA Release 8, Category 24 -- otherwise known as (non MIMO) Dual Carrier HSPA+ 42. In T-Mobile's AWS 10 MHz licensed bandwidth markets, it is using W-CDMA Release 7, Category 14 -- otherwise known as (non MIMO) HSPA+ 21. As far as I know, T-Mobile has not implemented any MIMO categories.

Now, on to recycling some PCS 1900 MHz spectrum from 2G GSM to 3G/4G W-CDMA...

Among the top 50 markets, T-Mobile has PCS licensed bandwidth of 20 MHz to 40 MHz. Here are three fairly comprehensive lists:

-PCS 20 MHz licensed bandwidth: New York, Los Angeles, Boston, Washington, DC, Miami, Cleveland (23.6 MHz), San Diego (25 MHz), Milwaukee, Tampa-St. Petersburg (25 MHz), Buffalo, New Orleans (25 MHz), Hartford, Sacramento (25 MHz)

-PCS 30 MHz licensed bandwidth: Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, San Francisco-Oakland, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Atlanta, Seattle, Cincinnati, Phoenix, San Jose, Indianapolis, Portland, Columbus, San Antonio, Memphis, Louisville, Providence, Salt Lake City, Dayton

-PCS 40 MHz licensed bandwidth: Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Rochester, Birmingham

In order to recycle PCS spectrum and deploy 3G/4G W-CDMA 1900, T-Mobile most likely requires PCS licensed bandwidth of at least 30 MHz. So, the PCS 20 MHz licensed bandwidth markets need not apply. Sorry, New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc. Those markets will probably not see 3G/4G W-CDMA in PCS spectrum anytime soon.

But T-Mobile's AWS 10 MHz licensed bandwidth markets are stuck at HSPA 21+ and are the markets most in need of recycling some PCS spectrum from 2G GSM to 3G/4G W-CDMA. Again, from the top 50, here is a complete (or nearly so) list:

-AWS 10 MHz licensed bandwidth: St. Louis, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Buffalo, Rochester, Memphis, Louisville, Dayton, Birmingham

Particularly of note, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Kansas City, Rochester, and Birmingham are on both the PCS 40 MHz and AWS 10 MHz licensed bandwidth lists. That means that these markets are almost assured candidates for recycling some PCS spectrum for 3G/4G W-CDMA. In fact, these PCS 40 MHz markets probably have enough spectrum to deploy Dual Carrier HSPA+ 42 in recycled PCS spectrum.

Additionally, AWS 10 MHz but PCS 30 MHz markets St. Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, and Dayton probably have enough PCS spectrum to deploy one HSPA+ 21 carrier channel in recycled PCS spectrum.

Unfortunately, AWS 10 MHz and PCS 20 MHz markets Milwaukee and Buffalo are probably out of luck. They likely lack enough AWS spectrum and PCS spectrum, alike, to advance beyond their single HSPA+ 21 carrier channel in AWS spectrum anytime in the foreseeable future.

AJ

Based on that info, I wouldn't hold your breath for Boston PCS / 1900mhz coverage on T-Mobile (IE 3G coverage on a currently existing iPhone device) anytime soon, though I suppose we'll have to wait and see what T-Mobile has to say.

[andiwm2003]

Originally Posted by rumz

ONLY if T-Mobile switches 3G / 4G on their 1900mhz spectrum in those areas. Currently (and historically) their 3G/4G is operating on other bands (1700mhz / 2100mhz AWS), while the only data available on T-Mobile on 1900mhz is EDGE (2g, much slower). .................................................................................................... .........................

^^^^^^ Thanks very much for the helpful post

Seems I won't be switching to TMO anytime soon though.

In Germany 30% of TMO's revenue comes from pay as you go cards. So it would make sense for TMO in the US to become the prime pay as you go carrier by providing 3G speeds for all those unlocked smartphones (Android and iPhones) out there. They could easily get millions of customers.

[rumz]

No problem I recently switched to T-Mobile in order to be able to use an unlocked GSM device I imported, which also is limited to 2G / Edge speeds on T-Mobile (which suffices for me most of the time, since I'm on wifi mostly). So any word of 3G on 1900mhz band is of interest to me. Should be interesting to see what T-Mobile's strategy is going forward since the AT&T merger fell through.

[Now2407]

Does 3G on iPhone work in palo alto ca?

Please reply

[wonlilaznboi]

don't have any 3g from bay area, near SF california...

[Marley10]

Anyone seeing 3G in Miami? Or anywhere in Florida ?

[sonovale]

Originally Posted by Akack

Good for those folks that can access 3G on their iPhones rather than the slow edge.

You are right man I am also supporting you.

[princealfie]

Any update for the SLC, UT area?