Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 21, 2012, 08:19 AM   #101
iGav
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder View Post
I agree, iGav, that the UK has the strongest claim - though I believe (don't quote me) that the Dutch actuallly discovered the Falkands. But they did not, if I recall, claim them.
Isn't there historical documentation to suggest the Islands were known about from Magellan's time, they were sighted by the English before the Dutch, but sighting discovery of the islands is not the same nor has the same validity as landing and claiming the islands of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder View Post
I am not familiar with the archaeology of the island, but I have never heard whether a prehistoric presence has been confirmed (and further study might be hampered by politics). It was certainly uninhabited when Europeans arrived.
According to that temple of truth, Wikipedia, "recent discoveries of arrowheads in Lafonia (on the southern half of East Falkland) as well as the remains of a wooden canoe provide strong evidence that they had been visited previously, most likely by the Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego. It is not known if these are evidence of one-way journeys, but there is no known evidence of pre-Columbian buildings or structures"

Get your trowel fella, potential honorary-Yaghan citizenship awaits you if you can settle this whole mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don't panic View Post
the islands would have (legally) gone back to argentina for good in the XIX century.
Have Argentina ever actually owned them though?

Argentina's basis for their claim is essentially based on Spain's (and Portugal's) initial claim in the 1400's to pretty much anything West of Europe, whether they knew what was out there or not, and whether they'd actually landed on it or not, a basis of claim which is of course completely absurd, and then later Spain's attempted claim of 1713, and that is in essence the foundation for Argentina's assertions that they inherited it from the Spanish on their independence in the 1800's.

But it's entirely debatable whether Spain ever actually had any valid claim whatsoever in the first place, given that they hadn't landed on it, and therefore hadn't claimed it on anything other than their inaccurate maps of the time, and there's nothing to suggest that was was on their inaccurate maps of the time was even the Falklands, it could quite easily have been Atlantis.

And by the time the Spanish got there the British already were, though that didn't stopping them expelling the British of course and that's presumably where squatters rights comes into all of this.
__________________
Me.
iGav is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 12:34 PM   #102
Lord Blackadder
macrumors G4
 
Lord Blackadder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sod off
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGav View Post
According to that temple of truth, Wikipedia, "recent discoveries of arrowheads in Lafonia (on the southern half of East Falkland) as well as the remains of a wooden canoe provide strong evidence that they had been visited previously, most likely by the Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego. It is not known if these are evidence of one-way journeys, but there is no known evidence of pre-Columbian buildings or structures"

Get your trowel fella, potential honorary-Yaghan citizenship awaits you if you can settle this whole mess.
The land mines are a bit of a turn-off for any archaeologist.

Evidence of a pre-Columbian presence doesn't necessarily strengthen or weaken either side's claim as far as I'm concerned. All it proves is that the island was not first discovered by Europeans. It's certainly a stretch for Argentina to claim that the activities of pre-Columbian people can somehow establish an Argentinian claim.
__________________
Oh, God, God, God! What on earth was I drinking last night? My head feels like there's a Frenchman living in it. - Edmund Blackadder
Lord Blackadder is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:30 PM   #103
fox10078
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Bah it's just Argentina smelling oil, the people on the island are British not some natives and most likely want to remain in the UK.
__________________
Vortex 8: Super Hackintosh Vortex 4: Render pal for Vortex 8, Also Hackintosh. Galaxy Nexus. iPad 2, My always trusty Macbook(Late 2006). Mac Pro 3,1(RIP) iPhone 4S(RIP)
fox10078 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:53 PM   #104
VulchR
macrumors 68000
 
VulchR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Scotland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
The Falkland Island's ships cannot fly the EU flag they are not part of the EU.
One would think that they would be allowed to register their ships with the UK, and unless something has happened that has escaped my notice the UK is still part of the EU.
__________________
My first was a Mac+. Now I own an iPhone with 3.5x the pixels, a colour display, WiFi, 512x the RAM, >1500x the data storage, and 100x the speed. And it fits in the palm of my hand.
VulchR is online now   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 03:40 PM   #105
iJohnHenry
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On tenterhooks
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
One would think that they would be allowed to register their ships with the UK, and unless something has happened that has escaped my notice the UK is still part of the EU.
As a matter of interest, from Wiki.

Quote:
The Falkland Islands use the Falkland pound, which circulates interchangeably with the pound sterling and which is backed by the pound sterling on a one-for-one basis.[94] Falkland coins are produced in the United Kingdom;[95] coins are identical in size to the United Kingdom currency but with local designs on the reverse. The Falkland Islands also issue their own stamps. Both the coins and stamps are a source of revenue from overseas collectors.[94]
iJohnHenry is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:29 PM   #106
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
One would think that they would be allowed to register their ships with the UK, and unless something has happened that has escaped my notice the UK is still part of the EU.
There is no civil ensign for the EU. So they would have to fly the UK flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Europe
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:39 PM   #107
Jaffa Cake
macrumors Core
 
Jaffa Cake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The City of Culture, Englandshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
There is no civil ensign for the EU. So they would have to fly the UK flag.
Surely there would be nothing to stop them reregistering their ships under a 'flag of convenience' from potentially any country?
__________________
How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul, leave me my name!
Jaffa Cake is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 05:28 PM   #108
B777Forevar
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
B777Forevar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by fox10078 View Post

Bah it's just Argentina smelling oil, the people on the island are British not some natives and most likely want to remain in the UK.
How much oil have they even discovered over there anyway?
__________________
B777Forevar is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 10:17 PM   #109
fox10078
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by B777Forevar View Post
How much oil have they even discovered over there anyway?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8527307.stm

Enough to start drilling.
__________________
Vortex 8: Super Hackintosh Vortex 4: Render pal for Vortex 8, Also Hackintosh. Galaxy Nexus. iPad 2, My always trusty Macbook(Late 2006). Mac Pro 3,1(RIP) iPhone 4S(RIP)
fox10078 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2012, 03:26 AM   #110
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa Cake View Post
Surely there would be nothing to stop them reregistering their ships under a 'flag of convenience' from potentially any country?
I have very strong feeling that no nation would like to get mixed up in this dispute.
Panama Liberia and Cyprus three of the main nations who run 'flags of convenience' side more with Argentina.
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:02 AM   #111
firestarter
macrumors Demi-God
 
firestarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Green and pleasant land
Looks like HMS Dauntless will soon set off for the South Atlantic.

firestarter is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:31 AM   #112
iStudentUK
macrumors 65816
 
iStudentUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Quote:
Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
Looks like HMS Dauntless will soon set off for the South Atlantic.
According to wiki it's designed to be stealthy... but I can clearly see it.

Personally I'm not sure we should be sending more military hardware to the Falklands. I don't believe we will see an invasion by Argentina and chucking one the Royal Navy's newest state-of-the-art-specifically-designed-with-air-defence-in-mind Destroyers down to the Falklands seems a bit confrontational on our part.
__________________
UK students may want to read about Apple education discounts and free student warranties here

Last edited by iStudentUK; Jan 31, 2012 at 05:37 AM.
iStudentUK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:40 AM   #113
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
Looks like HMS Dauntless will soon set off for the South Atlantic.

Image
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
According to wiki it's designed to be stealthy... but I can clearly see it.

Personally I'm not sure we should be sending more military hardware to the Falklands. I don't believe we will see an invasion by Argentina and chucking one the Royal Navy's newest state-of-the-art-specifically-designed-with-air-defence-in-mind Destroyers is a bit provocative.

I read this as David Cameron's way of looking tough after this last EU summit. This time according to some papers eurosceptics where not happy. (I have no idea why, but I don't think they do either, they are just programed that way).
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:41 AM   #114
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
According to wiki it's designed to be stealthy... but I can clearly see it.

Personally I'm not sure we should be sending more military hardware to the Falklands. I don't believe we will see an invasion by Argentina and chucking one the Royal Navy's newest state-of-the-art-specifically-designed-with-air-defence-in-mind Destroyers down to the Falklands seems a bit confrontational on our part.
She has limited anti-ship capabilities though (I don't think she's fitted with the optional twin quad-Harpoon launchers), so therefore she is only an anti-air ship. I think an anti-ship capability would have been more confrontational, in the sense that she could go up against an invasion fleet.

Saying that, sending any warship to that area will probably be deemed confrontational!
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:45 AM   #115
Jaffa Cake
macrumors Core
 
Jaffa Cake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The City of Culture, Englandshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
According to wiki it's designed to be stealthy... but I can clearly see it.
No, you just think you can see it.

The official line from the MoD is reportedly that this is a routine deployment which has nothing to do with the situation with Argentina, and that Dauntless is being sent to relieve a frigate currently stationed there (HMS Montrose, I believe). We normally have a ship or two stationed down there but none the less they're sending out one of the Navy's newest and fanciest vessels so take it as you will...
__________________
How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul, leave me my name!
Jaffa Cake is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 05:56 AM   #116
iStudentUK
macrumors 65816
 
iStudentUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa Cake View Post
We normally have a ship or two stationed down there but none the less they're sending out one of the Navy's newest and fanciest vessels so take it as you will...
Well that's my thought, swaping a standard issue ship for a brand new semi-stealthy one may raise eyebrows. Imagine if we sent one of the new carriers when they are ready?!
__________________
UK students may want to read about Apple education discounts and free student warranties here
iStudentUK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:01 AM   #117
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
Well, we could send a RIB with a couple of Marines down, how would that be?
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:02 AM   #118
iJohnHenry
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On tenterhooks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa Cake View Post
No, you just think you can see it.
The Emperor's new 'clothes'?

Looks nice. I'd like to book the Lido deck, please.

It's warm down there now, right?
iJohnHenry is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:12 AM   #119
Confuzzzed
macrumors 68000
 
Confuzzzed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Liverpool, UK
Good discussion. But, it's interesting that this is beginning to simmer just as the presence of natural gas and/or oil reserves is almost confirmed. Call me a cynic
Confuzzzed is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 08:27 AM   #120
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Call me cynical, but this story looks like a Government supporting newspaper helping a Prime Minster who is under fire.

Thumb resize.

Plus always remember Argentina have the "Hand of God" on their side.
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 08:29 AM   #121
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
Somehow I think South America has more than 48 aircraft! (even assuming Dauntless doesn't miss with a single missile).

Terrible press hyperbole.
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 08:31 AM   #122
firestarter
macrumors Demi-God
 
firestarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Green and pleasant land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
Call me cynical, but this story looks like a Government supporting newspaper helping a Prime Minster who is under fire.
The Prime Minister is always 'under fire'.

The Telegraph is always jingoistic (it sells newspapers).

No particular significance in this headline...
firestarter is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 11:24 AM   #123
jeremy h
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
There was a retired(?) naval commander (I think from Antelope during the war - but could have that wrong?* ) on the politics show at lunchtime. He seemed to suggest that it was to warn them off and ensure the airfield was protected form air attack. He did seem a bit concerned about the Argentinian sabre rattling at the moment but perhaps he was after an aircraft carrier or two.

* That one got bombed and sunk I think.
jeremy h is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 11:30 AM   #124
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
my overriding concern is that defence of the islands hinges on having an airfield to fly strike aircraft from. If we lose that airfield, either to a surprise amphibious or airbourne attack, we're stuffed and could probably never take the islands back without air superiority.
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 11:48 AM   #125
iStudentUK
macrumors 65816
 
iStudentUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat jez View Post
my overriding concern is that defence of the islands hinges on having an airfield to fly strike aircraft from. If we lose that airfield, either to a surprise amphibious or airbourne attack, we're stuffed and could probably never take the islands back without air superiority.
That's a concern until the new carriers are ready,however the Argentine airforce only has around 50 fighters, and 30 more ground attack aircraft. Some of those date back to the 1950s. Send another Destroyer like the one announced today and they could down the lot between them. Each of the carriers under construction will be able to carry about 40 aircraft (only around 40 harriers took part in the 80s campaign). The UK military is smaller than it was 30 years ago, but it should still be able to deal with Argentinian forces, especially when these carriers are ready.

However, I still seriously doubt the Argentina of today will invade.
__________________
UK students may want to read about Apple education discounts and free student warranties here
iStudentUK is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Try Islands Planet a challenging puzzle game Syphius iPhone and iPod touch Apps 1 Mar 31, 2013 11:27 AM
3D maps of Hawaii islands? 212rikanmofo iOS 6 3 Jun 16, 2012 07:53 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC