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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:26 PM   #101
James Craner
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I don't think anyone is seriously expecting large companies to adopt Apple products for hardware supporting the back office, for all the reasons that have been stated, quick on site support and capable of supporting mainstream ERP solutions are the main ones.

However I don't see any problem with end users getting the option to use a Apple laptop. If all the user needs is Word, Excel, Powerpoint and email then a Mac can do that just as well as any Windows machine. I think some companies understand that happy employees are more productive and if you are using a tool that you enjoy then everyone wins.

I used a Mac Book Pro in a large NYSE listed company for over 6 years, and had no problems at all. I was lucky as the local IT manager was very supportive and had no problem with me using a Mac in a Windows dominated office. He used to comment that I was less trouble than all the Windows machines he had to support. I could even get a native SAP Client so I could even run the ERP software without resorting to Windows.

I remember the Managing Director of the business unit getting so fed up with his Windows laptop failing and then being fixed by Dell's 4 hour onsite service and then failing again on more that one occasion, he went out got his own MBP to use, and has not looked back since.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:29 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
Why would any corporation choose to use iMacs? Apple does not offer corporate friendly desktop designs. More importantly, corporate hate to be dependent on a single supplier (and as far as I know nobody but Apple sells iMacs). Add to this OS/X being a consumer-oriented OS with no enterprise features to speak off, lack of roadmap, unserviceable designs and it's clear that any increase in iMac sales is a result of iOS halo effect that won't last.
Are you a WSO? Have you used anything besides a POS windows PC? Are you a troll? Do you work for Microsoft?
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:42 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by steve2112 View Post
....Getting replacement parts is also a pain with Macs. With Dell, for example, our techs can log into a site, give their diagnosis, and have the part shipped to them overnight. Apple doesn't do that. My location, and most of our other locations, are not near an Apple store or even a repair center.
Actually, Apple has had a program exactly like this for years. It's called GSX (for Global Service Exchange) and it is VERY similar to Dell's Warranty Parts Direct (or whatever Dell calls it these days.)
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:44 PM   #104
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The article is true

Despite all the posts declaring why Macs and ios devices will never be used in the corporate world, in fact they are spreading rapidly. The article is accurate. I work at GE and the data quoted is correct. The iphone is leading the way, followed by the ipad, then macbooks. I myself dumped my GE bberry for an iphone as did many or most of my co-workers (in my GE business I would say it is now 50-50). Ipads are everywhere - those of us that travel prefer them over carrying a laptop. We can use the internal cloud for remote data with 2 factor security. Wonderful travel device.

Fewer people are using Macbooks, because of course we have an enormous population using Windows and it will be a long time before that changes, just weight of numbers. But our Windows machines are all leased so as they roll off, they will be increasingly replaced with Macs.

So despite all the reasons quoted for why it will never happen - it already is. ios is the wedge.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:49 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
Apple did not even use their own products in their own server rooms - they use Sun (now Oracle) servers and Solaris. If that's not saying something about how enterprise-ready Macs and OS X are, then I don't know what is.
What that is really saying the that the percentages of most enterprises IT budgets that is spent on enterprise-server-class stuff is shrinking compared with buying and supporting generic data center and employee endpoint equipment.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 05:55 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Dweez View Post
My employer recently began to allow us to choose Macs over Windows laptops. Our IT organization, however, is Windows-only. So we are left to support ourselves.

I've been using my personal MBP as my work laptop for about 10 months, however my shiney new corporate MBP will be arriving here any day now.
You shouldn't really need corporate support if you have a Mac. I mean what could go wrong?

Unless of course your company has some dodgy proprietary software that is always crapping out. Which is perhaps all corporations, so please ignore this comment.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:00 PM   #107
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Apple's iOS devices are being ordered like mad at work, but they're almost impossible to integrate nicely into our windows network. It's not their fault there's 100's of critical services that are all windows-only, but there's little anyone can do about this.

Maybe apple's volume licensing is fine in america, but in the UK it's a horrendous joke. How do you manage 1000's of iOS users' applications? Apple's large account support giggle shamefully and tell us that gift cards are the only way.

Why does the authenticated proxy configuration still not work after all this time?

The cost of computer isn't an excuse for apple's market share. Corporate laptops by lenovo/dell/etc certainly aren't cheap, and the cost of client access licenses and general windows infrastructure licenses are an absolute fortune.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:01 PM   #108
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Wait until they play with Lion in a windows world.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:01 PM   #109
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Does anyone know if Apple have anything similar to SCCM?

Just wondering because in our environment we need to have the ability to remotely install OS's and install applications.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:01 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by FasterQuieter View Post
You shouldn't really need corporate support if you have a Mac. I mean what could go wrong?
Interesting, though that has not been our experience (and we only have 2 macbook pros to support, lol).
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:07 PM   #111
firewood
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Originally Posted by FasterQuieter View Post
Unless of course your company has some dodgy proprietary software that is always crapping out.
Company's are putting their dodgy proprietary software on VMs where they can be more safely monitored and protected, sometimes even on VMs in their server rooms (or their private "cloud") and using thin clients, such as RDP apps on iPads, to run these proprietary apps securely.

For some evidence of this, just take a look at the vast number of RDP and other remote desktop apps in the iPad App store (for instance Citrix, which is pretty much only usable in enterprise environments), and how high they manage to stay in the popularity rankings.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:16 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by scoobydoo99 View Post



Since when? Most corporations (as well as my employer, the federal gov't) enter into long-term contracts with one supplier. Ours is with dell. I can get any computer i want as long as it's a cheap black plastic dell - and this is for years and years. Corporate it loves the consistency of one supplier.
The problem with an all Apple solution is it is just one vendor - for the OS and the hardware. Now I know you're going to say that's great, it should all work, and so it should. But what happens if say, they decide to drop a feature set or software suite you use? What are your alternatives then?

I hate to say it, but look at what they've done to those who heavily invested in FCS as a solution. Whole facilities built around this Apple only solution, and now that their focus is on the consumer, well that investment has no future.

At least if with a Windows/PC solution, you have the OS made by one firm and a multitude of vendors making the hardware. You are less likely to be left high and dry because there are so much competition in the market. If Dell stop making PC's or supporting Windows, well HP and any number of competitors will step into the breach.

I can see all the iphones and pads in the large organisations I work in, but these aren't the core IT in these companies. In context, Apple will always be locked out of that market, partly because of their technological shortcomings for that application, but mainly because they just don't care about that market.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:23 PM   #113
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Im a pepsi employee, and all the employees are switching from a nextel to the iphone next week..which is way better than a nextel
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:47 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by VoR View Post
Maybe apple's volume licensing is fine in america, but in the UK it's a horrendous joke. How do you manage 1000's of iOS users' applications? Apple's large account support giggle shamefully and tell us that gift cards are the only way.
Apple really needs to pull there finger out for this one. Not just for enterprise but for education if they want to have a big push there with textbooks and edutainment software as well as bank on the natural people pressure on corporation.

That could be a key part tomorrows event.
An extension to iCloud accounts that allows for some or all rights of the user to be managed by an agent. A group of users could be assigned to the same agent account. So schools the agent might be the teacher or year coordinator backed by the IT team. In a corporate setting who ever makes most sense backed by the IT team.

Sure not a full solution but something that could be a good start.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Dweez View Post
My employer recently began to allow us to choose Macs over Windows laptops. Our IT organization, however, is Windows-only. So we are left to support ourselves.
If the Mac users are left to fend for themselves, doesn't that mean your organisation saves a lot of money in IT cost?
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:33 PM   #116
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The article says, "In the past 5 years, Apple's push into the enterprise has been led by the iPhone and the iPad."

That's because, for the past close to 5 years, Apple has refused to listen to customers, so that its iMac could become more suitable for business use.

I refer, of course, to the glossy-only screen.

People in offices actually often need to stare at the computer screen for most of the day. In certain lighting conditions, e.g. in bright sun-lit windowed offices, or spot lighting, rather than diffused -- the glossy screen creates harsh reflections, almost mirror-like.

Any employer, if they are serious about the eye-health of their employees, needs to read the close to 2,000 petitions at http://macmatte.wordpress.com

Search for database of comments for these words:

eye
eyestrain
eye strain
headache
migrane
migraine
glare

Any employer, who does that - and yet goes ahead and gets mirror-finish iMacs for their employees, will be without defense if any of those employees eye-health is damaged.

I'm not saying 100% of people suffer from the glare of glossy-only iMacs, but a good percentage. The http://macmatte.wordpress.com has a link to a review of polls, and the preference for matte can be anywhere between 30% to 90% depending on the poll. Suffice it to say, the people that require matte are not insubstantial.

Glossy mirror screens are great if Apple only wants to target mass consumers, and dump the workers - but if Apple wants to seriously target the corporate market, it needs to provide anti-glare screens on its iMacs to cater for workers that stare at screens all day long, sometimes in harsh or bright lighting conditions.

It's been close to 4.5 years since Apple deleted anti-glare screens from ALL Apple desktop products, from the iMac and their Cinema Display screens.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:40 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
If the Mac users are left to fend for themselves, doesn't that mean your organisation saves a lot of money in IT cost?
I've not considered that, but it's a good point. My manager is a Mac fan and has been instrumental in getting The Company to purchase Macs for us. Most of my group has converted and aren't looking back.

I did convert my corporate wintel laptop to a VM which I use when I absolutely have to use IE for internal apps.

Thanks boss...
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:41 PM   #118
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I can attest this is true for the company I worked for. It's a Fortune 500, employs about 50,000 employees. We can now get iPhones and iPads for use with our company.

Funny, I kept asking for the last few years when we could get iPhones. Being just a peon in the company, I was told no, I had to get a Blackberry. Then I saw one of the general managers with one and asked if that was his or the company's. He said the company. Seemed like when one of the VP's wanted an iPhone, the policy got changed.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:46 PM   #119
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nope

As a small-time IT Manager (the company whose infrastructure I manage does ~$100MM revenues worldwide) I can tell you that this blog post is misleading at best.

Apple does everything you can think of to discourage its' products from entering the enterprise. I have 17 macs, running 10.5, 6, and 7, and they are a farce from a management perspective.

Oh, wait, also from a functionality perspective. And, most importantly, from the perspective of available applications.

To paraphrase your god Steve, with whom I once had a personal email exchange, software is the most important thing. Software is what matters.

And macs just don't have software.

ERP? Not really
CAD? Not really
Office? Pain and suffering

Joining a domain and accessing services? Like a trip to the dentist for my users every single morning.

Management? They are harder to manage than a 1990's Windows domain.

The servers are beyond a farce. The servers are well into the absurd, and I'm glad they finally stopped referring to them as servers. They truly are just a set of cheesy services overlaid on an overpriced desktop.

This blog post took away most of the remainder of my respect for MacRumors. It's clearly owned by someone who owns a lot of Apple stock and has an agenda. Don't believe the hype.

PS I was a die-HARD mac fanatic until I had to manage them in the enterprise. I took this job specifically because I got to manage mac clients and XServes, which I thought was a dream. Holy crap was I wrong.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:58 PM   #120
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I heard that IT departments are stupid enough to use Windows Mobile or something. Glad to see that they finally understand what people want.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer View Post
As a small-time IT Manager (the company whose infrastructure I manage does ~$100MM revenues worldwide) I can tell you that this blog post is misleading at best.

Apple does everything you can think of to discourage its' products from entering the enterprise. I have 17 macs, running 10.5, 6, and 7, and they are a farce from a management perspective.

Oh, wait, also from a functionality perspective. And, most importantly, from the perspective of available applications.

To paraphrase your god Steve, with whom I once had a personal email exchange, software is the most important thing. Software is what matters.

And macs just don't have software.

ERP? Not really
CAD? Not really
Office? Pain and suffering

Joining a domain and accessing services? Like a trip to the dentist for my users every single morning.

Management? They are harder to manage than a 1990's Windows domain.

The servers are beyond a farce. The servers are well into the absurd, and I'm glad they finally stopped referring to them as servers. They truly are just a set of cheesy services overlaid on an overpriced desktop.

This blog post took away most of the remainder of my respect for MacRumors. It's clearly owned by someone who owns a lot of Apple stock and has an agenda. Don't believe the hype.

PS I was a die-HARD mac fanatic until I had to manage them in the enterprise. I took this job specifically because I got to manage mac clients and XServes, which I thought was a dream. Holy crap was I wrong.
Windows is the OS that lacks software. Doesn't come with SSH and uses a horrible, insecure file sharing protocol. Doesn't come with any services that you need. I am a Mac OS X Server user, actually, and it's extremely efficient and easy to use. And the Office for Mac is fine, you don't even know what you're talking about. Actually, iWork is a lot better in every way except that Excel kills Numbers.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:02 PM   #121
malman89
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Not a mega (or even small) corporation, but a small non-profit (15 staff + interns) and we're (almost) an all Mac workplace.

Everyone has refurb iMacs and we've got a Mac Pro for our heavy video editing and storage. We've got a refurb MBP for when we go have events around the state. The only Windows machine we have is a Dell laptop I set up into a work station for our part time accountant for Win7 and Quickbooks.

We even use an AirPort Extreme and Express to extend our signal and use an Xserve for our server.

It isn't seamless - we have our Mac IT guy come in weekly to deal with little bumps that constantly arise. Many of the questions probably are due to the shockingly low tech IQ of the staff, but there's been plenty of nagging issues with our server/back ups/etc. I think it's kind of nifty to work in an essentially all Mac workplace, but I'm no homer/fanboy and recognize there's plenty of great Windows builds out there (hoping for the right Ultrabook perhaps for my next laptop).
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:03 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
If the Mac users are left to fend for themselves, doesn't that mean your organisation saves a lot of money in IT cost?
But loses in productivity as when something doesn't work the employee who's responsible for X task, is now wokrin on their computer instead

COmpletely what you DO NOT want happening
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:11 PM   #123
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I definitely don't feel that "windows is best for corporate use," however, Apple's enterprise management tools are really lacking on the server side. While I've been a Mac guy for years, Windows server beats Mac OS server hands down, having worked with both (for medium to large businesses, that is - on the small business side, Apple has some pretty good solutions). I hope that over the long run Apple starts to reinvest in the back-end of things, because I think they'd be able to do a lot of really innovative stuff. But even if they don't, that doesn't mean that Macs don't have a place on employees' desks.

One feature I would LOVE to see in Mac OS X, though, is some form of Remote Desktop Connection Protocol. Apple Remote Desktop just doesn't cut it for remote access - it's laggy and a bandwidth hog, being based on VNC. Connecting to Windows PCs remotely is a breeze and a very pleasurable experience, whereas doing remote connections to Macs is really frustrating. This is really one "must have" feature for business use going forward, at least where I work.
In terms of management - the latest server application you don't need to manage the server via VNC unless you want to do a reboot or something that requires direct input/management but even that put aside the biggest stumbling block is hardware. The hardware is perfectly acceptable for say a small to medium business - I have a Mac mini running as a server without any problems (with 5 people using it) but a larger business I'd go for either a *NIX of some sort of even Windows.

On the server backend Windows does a pretty good job but I'd be tempted to see what a high end Mac mini with memory maxed out and a RAID hooked up to the thunderbolt port would be like when it comes to operating in a medium business environment. I really haven't done anything to put my server under a stress test but I'd hazard to guess that for a large number of companies a maxed out mac mini with storage provided via a RAID hooked up to the thunderbolt port might be just the key.

Btw, when using VNC have you funnelled it through a SSH compression session? I remember there was a neat little hack used with Xorg if you were managing a server over a crappy connection you could compress the session by funnelling it through SSH.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:12 PM   #124
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Apple is going to take over the world.

Resistance is futile.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:15 PM   #125
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Apple is going to take over the world.

Resistance is futile.
Hahaha
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