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Old Jan 21, 2012, 07:09 AM   #1
BreakGuy
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AppleCare Battery Replacement

Now, GGJstudios, before you post that link to your favourite Apple Notebook Battery FAQ - I have read it.

Now, my question. The battery in my MBP is designed to last up to 1000 full cycles BEFORE it reaches ≤80% capacity. It's highly unlikely I'd get to 1000 charges in my first year of use, so, if I were to buy AppleCare (I don't have it yet) would it cover my battery if it say, got to 800 cycles and began displaying 75% capacity in it's second year of use?

I've read the fineprint and I'm confused as to this passage,
Quote:
However, the AppleCare Protection Plan for notebook computers does not cover batteries that have failed or are exhibiting diminished capacity except when the failure or diminished capacity is the result of a manufacturing defect.
I'm not sure if failing to reach 1000 cycles in a defect in the battery or not.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 07:17 AM   #2
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What they mean is unless your battery was defective at the time of manufacture it's not covered under Applecare....Basically, it would be considered normal degradation and wear and tear of daily use.

In short, you'd have to buy a new battery.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 07:21 AM   #3
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What they mean is unless your battery was defective at the time of manufacture it's not covered under Applecare....Basically, it would be considered normal degradation and wear and tear of daily use.

In short, you'd have to buy a new battery.
So theoretically, if I got to 800 cycles in the first year and it began displaying 75% capacity it wouldn't be covered either?
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 08:19 AM   #4
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So theoretically, if I got to 800 cycles in the first year and it began displaying 75% capacity it wouldn't be covered either?
Only apple can really answer that as they are the ones who will make the decision that it is or is not normal wear and tear
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 08:19 AM   #5
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Nope, that's wear and tear....They mean defective when new...In plain English, you have already passed the point of that being the case. I have known people get replacement batteries, but it's normally only as stated in the fine print....And it's usually a bad batch...They know, so they replace. If you look after your battery you shouldn't have any issues. I have yet to replace a battery in any device...They are normally sold and replaced before I get close to new battery time.

I'm not sure about Applecare+ though.....I just have ordinary AC on all my stuff.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 09:04 AM   #6
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Mhmm... I'm under the impression that if one of these batteries falls under 80% capacity before it reaches 1000 cycles then AppleCare would cover it as defective. That said, 3 years seems a little optimistic for a lithium ion battery to have more than 80% capacity as time also degrades them.

You'd definitely have a strong case in the first year, though.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 09:06 AM   #7
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I'd be interested to hear what Apple define a "defect" as being. I mean, if it was designed to deliver 1000 cycles, and it fails on that, surely that's a defect, right? Just like if your 8GB of RAM was only giving you half, it'd be a defect.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 10:40 AM   #8
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I interpret it as so long as you are covered under Applecare and the battery is below 80% with fewer than 1000 cycles, it will be replaced as a manufacturing defect. I'm not sure why people think it has to be within the first year. With the supposed 7 hours per charge, it is nearly impossible to exhaust 1000 cycles in one year!
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 11:50 AM   #9
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I interpret it as so long as you are covered under Applecare and the battery is below 80% with fewer than 1000 cycles, it will be replaced as a manufacturing defect. I'm not sure why people think it has to be within the first year. With the supposed 7 hours per charge, it is nearly impossible to exhaust 1000 cycles in one year!
1000 cycles in one year?
i can make 10 cycles in one day for you
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 12:01 PM   #10
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1000 cycles in one year?
i can make 10 cycles in one day for you
That's 3650 cycles in one year, or 3660 cycles in a leap year (Like this year).

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Old Jan 21, 2012, 01:34 PM   #11
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In my honest opinion, building a full-size laptop with an integrated non-user-servicable battery is the stupidest thing Apple has done in a long time, and I think they've figured this out. I would call Apple and see if they're willing to work with you if indeed the Genius Bar turns you away, which speaking from experience they probably will.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:37 PM   #12
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1000 cycles in one year?
i can make 10 cycles in one day for you
Staying up 24 hours, running the computer at 100%, sure. For normal use, there is practically no way to reach 1000 cycles in one year.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:32 PM   #13
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I think GGJstudios battery FAQ is pretty clear on this point:

Quote:
If you have a battery that has failed to meet its expected lifespan, assuming your battery is properly calibrated (for those models that need calibration), you may have a defective battery. If so, contact AppleCare to see if they will replace it.
Quote:
The built-in battery of your MacBook, MacBook Pro or MacBook Air is designed to deliver up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles before it reaches 80 percent of its original capacity.
Putting this together, a battery that drops below 80% with less than 1000 cycles should be considered defective. Then, if the laptop is still covered by warranty (applecare), Apple should replace it free of charge.

Further:

Quote:
Your one-year warranty includes replacement coverage for a defective battery. You can extend your replacement coverage for a defective battery to three years from the date of your notebook purchase with the AppleCare Protection Plan. However, the AppleCare Protection Plan for notebook computers does not cover batteries that have failed or are exhibiting diminished capacity except when the failure or diminished capacity is the result of a manufacturing defect.
So at the end of the day, this leaves some room for interpretation - however, knowing Apple, I'm 99% sure that a battery that fails to reach the 1000/80% limit will be replaced for free provided the computer is still under warranty!
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BreakGuy View Post
if I were to buy AppleCare (I don't have it yet) would it cover my battery if it say, got to 800 cycles and began displaying 75% capacity in it's second year of use?
thundersteele is right. Yes, Apple should replace that battery free of charge under AppleCare, as it would be considered defective, having failed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity for at least 1000 cycles.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 07:31 PM   #15
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I think Apple have given themselves some breathing room here by saying "...designed to deliver up to 1000..." so they can turn around and say that it's not a guaranteed 1000.

If that's the case, where would the line be drawn? 10 cycles would be defective. 100 and 250 cycles would be too. So why not 500 or 800 cycles?
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 12:57 AM   #16
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Yes, but this is apple, not some some random ebay store. If these forums have taught me anything, it is that Apple will usually go beyond what they are legally obliged to do - why would the suddenly start fighting over a cheap battery?


Also, coming back to your original question:
Are you going to decide whether or not to buy AppleCare on the battery replacement issue? If that is the case, for the price of AppleCare you can get two battery replacements - so it's not worth it.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 01:10 AM   #17
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judging by the MBP in your signature ... you are worrying about nothing

the odds of your battery going bad are slim
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 05:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGJstudios View Post
thundersteele is right. Yes, Apple should replace that battery free of charge under AppleCare, as it would be considered defective, having failed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity for at least 1000 cycles.
Apple clearly states that this only applies if the battery has a manufacturing defect. Not reaching the 1000 cycles - 80% health claim doesn't automatically mean that there is a defect. You can drain the health by not using the battery optimally, e.g. keeping it plugged in all the time. Apple would probably run the computer through some tests and if they report a failed battery, then they replace it. If the test comes out clean, then they have no reason to believe it's a manufacturing defect.

Of course, all this is up to the rep you're dealing with. Some are more generous but that's not always the case: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/27/...losure-issues/
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 07:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by thundersteele View Post
Also, coming back to your original question:
Are you going to decide whether or not to buy AppleCare on the battery replacement issue? If that is the case, for the price of AppleCare you can get two battery replacements - so it's not worth it.
I'm not completely sure what to base my reasons for purchasing AppleCare or not are. I'll probably end up buying it, just for piece of mind anyway.

Quote:
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judging by the MBP in your signature ... you are worrying about nothing

the odds of your battery going bad are slim
I wasn't worrying. I was just reading through the fine print (who knows why?) and it's not as clear as it should be.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BreakGuy View Post
I'm not completely sure what to base my reasons for purchasing AppleCare or not are. I'll probably end up buying it, just for piece of mind anyway.
It's not just about the battery, AppleCare is totally worthwhile. I have a late 2008 MBP, and in the time I've had it I've had 3 display unit replacements, 1 battery replacement, 1 hard drive replacement and 2 power cord replacements. Add that up and it's about $2500 worth of replacement parts, and none of it has cost me a dime. You could possibly argue that the power cord failing could be from not taking enough care with it, but everything else is just failed parts.

...now I'm nervous about using this laptop with expired AppleCare. Those display units cost $700 a pop.

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Old Mar 1, 2012, 07:07 PM   #21
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It's not just about the battery, AppleCare is totally worthwhile. I have a late 2008 MBP, and in the time I've had it I've had 3 display unit replacements, 1 battery replacement, 1 hard drive replacement and 2 power cord replacements. Add that up and it's about $2500 worth of replacement parts, and none of it has cost me a dime. You could possibly argue that the power cord failing could be from not taking enough care with it, but everything else is just failed parts.

...now I'm nervous about using this laptop with expired AppleCare. Those display units cost $700 a pop.
I have a 2008 MBP that's still going strong and has needed no repairs at all. I meant to get Applecare for it, but forgot until the first year had already passed. Forgetting actually ended up saving me money in the end.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get Applecare...I happen to be a big believer in it under most circumstances. Just pointing out that many people buy it and don't end up needing it.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 02:01 PM   #22
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I have a 2008 MBP that's still going strong and has needed no repairs at all. I meant to get Applecare for it, but forgot until the first year had already passed. Forgetting actually ended up saving me money in the end.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get Applecare...I happen to be a big believer in it under most circumstances. Just pointing out that many people buy it and don't end up needing it.
Fair enough, it's not always going to pay for itself, since Apple would be losing crazy money if everyone got as much out of it as I did. However, in my opinion it is 100% worth it, even if all it gives is some extra peace of mind.

Just as a quick follow up, since my last post I have also received a new battery out of it. For the 2008 MBP apparently the threshold is <500 cycles and below 80% (my battery was at 487 cycles at 67% and dropping like a stone in the last few weeks). I'm glad this happened when it did, as my applecare plan runs out in a little over a month!
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Old Mar 6, 2012, 11:23 AM   #23
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I had the battery in my old Late 2006 MBP replaced by AppleCare when it was almost 3 years old (just before AppleCare expired).

This thread reminds me to order AppleCare for my new MBP.
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Old Mar 6, 2012, 12:26 PM   #24
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AppleCare and batteries is a touchy subject. What HellHammer said is correct. Just because your battery doesn't retain 80 percent charge for 1000 charges, doesn't mean the battery is defective. There are many things the user could've done to shorten the life of the battery. But with that said, and this isn't a guarantee, if you have AppleCare usually Apple will replace your battery. There is no definitive answer, if you have a failing battery, you'll have to contact Apple and see what they do for you which will be different for each person.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 03:20 AM   #25
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My battery has 339 cycles and is at 57% capacity and still under applecare. It's a mid-2009 13" MBP - I always thought that it was rated for 300 cycles/80%, but it seems the threshold is higher?
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