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Old Feb 28, 2012, 11:59 PM   #101
fgullama
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depending on your windows use you can do vmware fusion to install windows 7 and the seagate drive will run windows and lion at the same time.

you could also install bootcamp on the internal. not ideal but a half way decent workaround for some users.

completely and totally off the subject i built my first pc.

uses an intel i 2500k pretty nice but not quite what I want.

it would be exactly what I want if it could run lion legally oh well


I did purchase Fusion, and honestly for the amount of time I might need to boot native, another install to the internal drive is probably fine... I'm just already spoiled by the speed of the SSD though

Frank
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:55 AM   #102
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I thought I'd look to MuiltiBeast for a simple solution.

Just go to www.tonymacx86.com and download and install the latest version of MultiBeast. The only thing you need to install (for the iMac, and I assume the Mini) is under: Drivers & Bootloaders - Kexts & Enablers - - 3rdParty SATA

This will make all devices plugged into the Marvell SATA controller appear non removable after a reboot, allowing Boot Camp installation to continue without issue. I of course recommend a backup, should you attempt this.
Frank, the same is the case here. I too dabbled for the longest time with Hackintoshes before buying the iMac. What you wrote about the 3rd Party SATA kext interests me. So, does this mean that after you installed the kext via Multibeast, your SSD Boot drive showed up as an internal drive with the gray drive icon?

If so, that's marvelous! I would really like to recreate the same, especially since the Negotiated Speed remains 6Gbps (I assume) and the throughput the same as well.

Luckily my T-Bolt connector should be delivered today, and my OCZ Vertex III showed up yesterday. Really looking forward to this!
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 11:53 AM   #103
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Frank, the same is the case here. I too dabbled for the longest time with Hackintoshes before buying the iMac. What you wrote about the 3rd Party SATA kext interests me. So, does this mean that after you installed the kext via Multibeast, your SSD Boot drive showed up as an internal drive with the gray drive icon?

If so, that's marvelous! I would really like to recreate the same, especially since the Negotiated Speed remains 6Gbps (I assume) and the throughput the same as well.

Luckily my T-Bolt connector should be delivered today, and my OCZ Vertex III showed up yesterday. Really looking forward to this!


Hey Tim,

You are correct. When booted into the OS, this patch makes the Thunderbolt drive appear (both aesthetically and functionally) internal. The only time you will see the orange icon is at the option-boot menu.

Please note (see above posts) however that Boot Camp still does not work the way you might hope it would if that is of concern.

Good luck with your setup today. I do not think you will be disappointed!

Frank
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 01:28 PM   #104
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Frank, the same is the case here. I too dabbled for the longest time with Hackintoshes before buying the iMac. What you wrote about the 3rd Party SATA kext interests me. So, does this mean that after you installed the kext via Multibeast, your SSD Boot drive showed up as an internal drive with the gray drive icon?

If so, that's marvelous! I would really like to recreate the same, especially since the Negotiated Speed remains 6Gbps (I assume) and the throughput the same as well.

Luckily my T-Bolt connector should be delivered today, and my OCZ Vertex III showed up yesterday. Really looking forward to this!
I would be great if you can post benchmarks with your OCZ Vertex 3 in the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter. This would keep me from tearing down my LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk RAID 0 array with OCZ Vertex 3s just to post benchmarks. The other option I had was to remove one of two internal OCZ Vertex 3 MAX IOPS my 2011 Mac mini.

Thank you in advance.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 07:50 PM   #105
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The 512GB Samsung 830 in the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter started acting up today on large file copies on the 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7. After a few hundred megabytes, the drive would hang and make the system unresponsive. Very disappointing

Once I get my HTPC back online, I'll try with a 750GB GoFlex Pro drive. If that drive works, then we know its a 512GB Samsung 830 compatibility issue. I'll also try large file copies on my 2011 15" MacBook Pro.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 07:52 PM   #106
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Well so far, I am a bit disappointed. I have it running using the Black Magic test, and am getting SATA II speeds - 238MBps Write and 209MBps read, even though OCZ Vertex III is rated for Max Read: up to 550MB/s, Max Write: up to 520MB/s.

Is there something I am doing wrong here?
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:05 PM   #107
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Well so far, I am a bit disappointed. I have it running using the Black Magic test, and am getting SATA II speeds - 238MBps Write and 209MBps read, even though OCZ Vertex III is rated for Max Read: up to 550MB/s, Max Write: up to 520MB/s.

Is there something I am doing wrong here?
Check in System Profiler to see what the link speed is negotiated. Also, you might want to update your OCZ Vertex 3 to the latest firmware and patch it for SATA compatibility. Older OCZ Vertex 3 drives had problems negotiating the proper link speed. I doubt you'll see 550/520, because I barely get that in my tweaked out bootcamp installation with AHCI enable, Intel Rapid Storage drivers on an internal SATA III channel in ATTO disk benchmark.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:19 PM   #108
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The link speed is 6Gbps and negotiated at the same rate as well. As for the firmware check, it seems I have 2.15 which is the latest according to their site. Although your point about not reachng 550/520 is well taken, I wonder why the speeds shown are just so much lower.

I checked on the OCZ forums, and according to the users in the forum, since BlackMagic uses incompressible data, the performance is similar to the AS-SSD test on Windows. I wonder if there's any truth to that. Here's one post, and another.

It would seem to explain the performance (or lack thereof).
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:33 PM   #109
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The link speed is 6Gbps and negotiated at the same rate as well. As for the firmware check, it seems I have 2.15 which is the latest according to their site. Although your point about not reachng 550/520 is well taken, I wonder why the speeds shown are just so much lower.

I checked on the OCZ forums, and according to the users in the forum, since BlackMagic uses incompressible data, the performance is similar to the AS-SSD test on Windows. I wonder if there's any truth to that. Here's one post, and another.

It would seem to explain the performance (or lack thereof).
It's true that Black Magic uses incompressible data, but those numbers still look low for an OCZ Vertex 3. Try AJA system test.

Also, what size OCZ Vertex 3 and how is the stability?

@philipma -- I just ran the same stress test that caused the 512GB Samsung 830 to hang when directly connected using the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter to the 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7. The OEM Seagate GoFlex Pro 750GB (7200RPM) does not cause the system to hang with large file copies. I'm curious if its worth the effort to test the 480GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G boot drive in my 2011 15" MacBook Pro on the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter. I'm really feeling the speed decrease in the UI for my HTPC media library. I really don't want to go back to the bright glowing blue light and extra power cord for the LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:36 PM   #110
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OT: OCZ has a bad reputation that is not wholly deserved. They release a lot of firmware updates to resolve issues. Since FW 2.15 all the Sandforce 22xx series drives are stable. If its an issue the problem is likely the Windows user environment. Also, its important to take note that Newegg reviews tend to lean on the negative. Anandtech has a very good article on OCZ and reliability.

----------



Please let me know how I should try to replicate the drop outs. The Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter is on the UPS truck for deliver!

Anandtech has a similar article but this is from storage review

Conclusion

With the wide selection of SSDs on the market today, there is no question that some drives will be slower than others. Reviewers like ourselves and buyers alike understand that some models will score differently, and we can choose with our wallets. The problem we have with this particular situation is that any choice to make an informed buying decision was taken away when OCZ sold and advertised these models as identical through online retailers. Both list the same 285MB/s read and 275MB/s write speeds, the same three year warranties, and the same retail price. What the average buyer doesn't know is that depending on which model they get, one is up to 49% slower than the other and has only 66% of the rated write-cycles. There are other complaints as well, such as having a 5GB smaller capacity. Considering both models are sold as being 60GB; one being formatted with 55.8GB of space with the other having only 51.2GB is a huge difference. All that said, at least the 25nm version held up well in our real world benchmarks.*

Overall there is no question that OCZ messed up with the way they handled the introduction of 25nm flash with their consumer SSD line. Listing these drives as different models, changing the rated speeds, mentioning the lower expected life-span, and even changing the pricing would have let buyers know what they were getting in to. Instead they took the approach that no one would notice... well we did and plenty of their own buyers did too.



This is why OCZ gets complaints, bad company leadership from the top.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 08:48 PM   #111
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Anandtech has a similar article but this is from storage review

Conclusion

With the wide selection of SSDs on the market today, there is no question that some drives will be slower than others. Reviewers like ourselves and buyers alike understand that some models will score differently, and we can choose with our wallets. The problem we have with this particular situation is that any choice to make an informed buying decision was taken away when OCZ sold and advertised these models as identical through online retailers. Both list the same 285MB/s read and 275MB/s write speeds, the same three year warranties, and the same retail price. What the average buyer doesn't know is that depending on which model they get, one is up to 49% slower than the other and has only 66% of the rated write-cycles. There are other complaints as well, such as having a 5GB smaller capacity. Considering both models are sold as being 60GB; one being formatted with 55.8GB of space with the other having only 51.2GB is a huge difference. All that said, at least the 25nm version held up well in our real world benchmarks.*

Overall there is no question that OCZ messed up with the way they handled the introduction of 25nm flash with their consumer SSD line. Listing these drives as different models, changing the rated speeds, mentioning the lower expected life-span, and even changing the pricing would have let buyers know what they were getting in to. Instead they took the approach that no one would notice... well we did and plenty of their own buyers did too.



This is why OCZ gets complaints, bad company leadership from the top.
OT: I agree with the Storage Review article about the way they handled the 25nm NAND change over. But I still stand by the perform of the Vertex 3 line (the review is for the Vertex 2) and still believe the reliability problems are blown way out of proportion.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:07 PM   #112
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I tested my Intel 320 series 160GB drive with the Blackmagic tool.

I got 167MB/s write and 267MB/s read, which is about right for that drive.

Edit: I should specify that this is with the Tbolt cable and Go-Flex dock, using an entry level i5 13" MBP.

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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:30 PM   #113
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Well so far, I am a bit disappointed. I have it running using the Black Magic test, and am getting SATA II speeds - 238MBps Write and 209MBps read, even though OCZ Vertex III is rated for Max Read: up to 550MB/s, Max Write: up to 520MB/s.

Is there something I am doing wrong here?

Hey Tim,

I'm getting around 240-260 write and 340-360 with Black Magic and around 320 with both read and write using AJA. To get AJA to run, I had to boot to a separate disk... The numbers may be a bit low as shortcut3d stated, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I only got around 350 read and write even in ATTO, never getting near the 500+ supposed read/write for my Sandforce based drive either. I wonder if it just varies with batch, or it's associated overhead with the Seagate. If you find a way to tweak it and and get faster speeds I'd love to know as well, but it still must be night and day compared to the internal HDD

Frank
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:34 PM   #114
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It's true that Black Magic uses incompressible data, but those numbers still look low for an OCZ Vertex 3. Try AJA system test.

Also, what size OCZ Vertex 3 and how is the stability?

@philipma -- I just ran the same stress test that caused the 512GB Samsung 830 to hang when directly connected using the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter to the 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7. The OEM Seagate GoFlex Pro 750GB (7200RPM) does not cause the system to hang with large file copies. I'm curious if its worth the effort to test the 480GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G boot drive in my 2011 15" MacBook Pro on the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter. I'm really feeling the speed decrease in the UI for my HTPC media library. I really don't want to go back to the bright glowing blue light and extra power cord for the LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk.
okay I had the samsung 256gb series 470/810 in for 40 hours and it was flawless as osx and I did 6 hours of eyetv recording and play back. today I put the 600gb intel ssd series 320 inside and for 10 hours it has been flawless. this is the base mini with the 1.6 firmware and a full 10.7.3 update.

So I recommend this for samsung series 470/810 and intel series 320. both sata II.

I will run the intel for a second day.


next drive will be the crucial m4 prior to the firmware update it dropped out once. it is a sata III.

I will run it on a samsung 800 a sata II.



I am thinking there are some satiability issues with the big samsung 830 512gb and the seagate t-bolt. two people testing on different minis in different states same problem. I read that samsung has put out a firmware upgrade on that drive. I have not done it.

So far All the sata III tests have been less then perfect. oh and the samsung 830 512gb did give me numbers over 400 read and write before they acted stupid. need to not rush with these tests. I will do a long recording tonight jay leno and jimmy farrell 3 hours 18gb file on eyetv then off load it to my nas and watch it in my ht on thur. still it would be nice if I could get a sata III to work like the intel series sata II or the samsung sata II ssds are working.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:05 PM   #115
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okay I had the samsung 256gb series 470/810 in for 40 hours and it was flawless as osx and I did 6 hours of eyetv recording and play back. today I put the 600gb intel ssd series 320 inside and for 10 hours it has been flawless. this is the base mini with the 1.6 firmware and a full 10.7.3 update.

So I recommend this for samsung series 470/810 and intel series 320. both sata II.

I will run the intel for a second day.


next drive will be the crucial m4 prior to the firmware update it dropped out once. it is a sata III.

I will run it on a samsung 800 a sata II.



I am thinking there are some satiability issues with the big samsung 830 512gb and the seagate t-bolt. two people testing on different minis in different states same problem. I read that samsung has put out a firmware upgrade on that drive. I have not done it.

So far All the sata III tests have been less then perfect. oh and the samsung 830 512gb did give me numbers over 400 read and write before they acted stupid. need to not rush with these tests. I will do a long recording tonight jay leno and jimmy farrell 3 hours 18gb file on eyetv then off load it to my nas and watch it in my ht on thur. still it would be nice if I could get a sata III to work like the intel series sata II or the samsung sata II ssds are working.
So the 512GB Samsung 830 is stable on my 2011 Mac mini server. I tried switching between the two Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex adapters and all three Apple Thunderbolt cables as well. The difference between my 2011 Mac mini server was the 1.6 firmware update. So I updated the firmware on the 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7 to bring the version current. I also walked through all the bootcamp Windows 7 Professional 64-bit drivers (the HTPC OS) and made sure they were the same version. I did have to update the Intel Rapid Storage drivers. I re-ran the "Black Swan" test (copying 11GB recording to the 512GB Samsung 830 from an internal 750GB WD Scorpio Black). After the firmware update it gracefully disconnected instead of crashing the OS. I guess that's progress.

I'm hesitant to attempt to swap the 480GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G in my 2011 15" MacBook Pro for the 512GB Samsung 830
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:25 PM   #116
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So the 512GB Samsung 830 is stable on my 2011 Mac mini server. I tried switching between the two Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex adapters and all three Apple Thunderbolt cables as well. The difference between my 2011 Mac mini server was the 1.6 firmware update. So I updated the firmware on the 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7 to bring the version current. I also walked through all the bootcamp Windows 7 Professional 64-bit drivers (the HTPC OS) and made sure they were the same version. I did have to update the Intel Rapid Storage drivers. I re-ran the "Black Swan" test (copying 11GB recording to the 512GB Samsung 830 from an internal 750GB WD Scorpio Black). After the firmware update it gracefully disconnected instead of crashing the OS. I guess that's progress.

I'm hesitant to attempt to swap the 480GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G in my 2011 15" MacBook Pro for the 512GB Samsung 830
well this is good news. looks like the 1.6 fw may be the key to success.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:42 AM   #117
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Hey Tim,

I'm getting around 240-260 write and 340-360 with Black Magic and around 320 with both read and write using AJA. To get AJA to run, I had to boot to a separate disk... The numbers may be a bit low as shortcut3d stated, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I only got around 350 read and write even in ATTO, never getting near the 500+ supposed read/write for my Sandforce based drive either. I wonder if it just varies with batch, or it's associated overhead with the Seagate. If you find a way to tweak it and and get faster speeds I'd love to know as well, but it still must be night and day compared to the internal HDD

Frank
Frank and Shortcut3d,

Well, it seems I might have a bad SSD on my hands, as I tried another Vertex 3 I have (had it in my Windows system), and this one gave me much better results 390MBps read and ~ 287MBps write. I am going to RMA the one I just bought. Glad to see the great speeds. Next up, installing OSX on it and relishing the great speeds.

One worrying thing I did notice was that when I connected my Bus powered external WD Digital 1TB USB drive in addition to the Vertex on the Seagate T-Bolt adapter, the USB drive would not load. Once I unplugged the T-Bolt Seagate, everything was fine again. Insufficient power perhaps? If so, this would kind of limit the utility of the Seagate T-Bolt adapter in supporting a boot drive.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 10:15 AM   #118
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Frank and Shortcut3d,

Well, it seems I might have a bad SSD on my hands, as I tried another Vertex 3 I have (had it in my Windows system), and this one gave me much better results 390MBps read and ~ 287MBps write. I am going to RMA the one I just bought. Glad to see the great speeds. Next up, installing OSX on it and relishing the great speeds.

One worrying thing I did notice was that when I connected my Bus powered external WD Digital 1TB USB drive in addition to the Vertex on the Seagate T-Bolt adapter, the USB drive would not load. Once I unplugged the T-Bolt Seagate, everything was fine again. Insufficient power perhaps? If so, this would kind of limit the utility of the Seagate T-Bolt adapter in supporting a boot drive.
this is a possible power issue or a possible software issue. do you have the firmware 1.6 installed on your mini
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 12:02 PM   #119
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I'm going to try the firmware update again for the 512GB Samsung 830. I initially tries in my work laptop and it did not find a new firmware. This time I'll try to manually update the firmware through bootcamp.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 03:51 PM   #120
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Frank and Shortcut3d,

Well, it seems I might have a bad SSD on my hands, as I tried another Vertex 3 I have (had it in my Windows system), and this one gave me much better results 390MBps read and ~ 287MBps write. I am going to RMA the one I just bought. Glad to see the great speeds. Next up, installing OSX on it and relishing the great speeds.

One worrying thing I did notice was that when I connected my Bus powered external WD Digital 1TB USB drive in addition to the Vertex on the Seagate T-Bolt adapter, the USB drive would not load. Once I unplugged the T-Bolt Seagate, everything was fine again. Insufficient power perhaps? If so, this would kind of limit the utility of the Seagate T-Bolt adapter in supporting a boot drive.
Hey Tim,

Sounds like you got the bottom of the speed issue. Bummer about the bad drive, but at least you have an answer now so you can fix it.

As far as the USB connections on your 2011 iMac not working, I tried a 1tb 2.5 external USB Seagate as well as a 500gb 2.5 external USB Western Digital with no issues. I plan to leave one plugged in full time for Time Machine backups. I also have an Asus external BluRay drive plugged in full time which is still working fine. I'm only using one port for data and power, not the double dongle thing.

I did however plug these devices directly into the system. Were you coming off of a USB hub for any of the USB drives by chance? I could see an unpowered (or even powered) hub potentially having issues. Why only when the Thunderbolt drive is plugged in though... Perhaps the extra draw from the Thunderbolt drive drops power a bit across the USB bus? seems kind of strange. I can tell you my setup seems to work fine though, so it should work. I just tested a BluRay movie with one of the the external USB drives connected at a time with the Thunderbolt SSD being my boot drive. I do have an unpowered hub hooked up full time as well for another small audio device, the iPad, thumb drives, etc. that still works as well.

Hopefully this helps you a bit in troubleshooting.

I hope nobody minds my posts here, as I'm using an iMac with the Seagate, not a Mini. I figured the extra info might still help others with the Seagate.

Frank
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:27 PM   #121
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I did had a double USB LaCie Slim External Bluray drive connected at the same time as the Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex 2.5" adapter with 512GB Samsung 830 to a 2011 Mac mini server with no issues. However, this Mac mini server had no issues with the "Black Swan" test and Samsung 830.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:48 PM   #122
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Frank, philipma1957 and Shortcut3d,

Thanks for checking with your systems. I am glad that you guys aren't seeing the issue, and so far the problem is intermittent on my end, as I have been able to recreate the issue only once since.

I was connecting the bus powered USB drive to the iMac directly (sorry, just like Frank I too am using an iMac for these tests, not a Mac Mini), and not via a Hub, though I will try connecting it to a powered USB hub and see if the issue persists.

In the meantime if any of you bought a t-bolt connector without having a GoFlex drive, you can buy a GoFlex 2.5" enclosure from eBay. Here's the link. Mine just arrived this morning, and for $24 it is a steal compared to the amount we spent getting the t-bolt cable and adapter.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:29 PM   #123
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Frank, philipma1957 and Shortcut3d,

Thanks for checking with your systems. I am glad that you guys aren't seeing the issue, and so far the problem is intermittent on my end, as I have been able to recreate the issue only once since.

I was connecting the bus powered USB drive to the iMac directly (sorry, just like Frank I too am using an iMac for these tests, not a Mac Mini), and not via a Hub, though I will try connecting it to a powered USB hub and see if the issue persists.

In the meantime if any of you bought a t-bolt connector without having a GoFlex drive, you can buy a GoFlex 2.5" enclosure from eBay. Here's the link. Mine just arrived this morning, and for $24 it is a steal compared to the amount we spent getting the t-bolt cable and adapter.

Thanks for the link Tim, I'm in for one. I got things set up fine with the sleeve, but my Macintosh was starting to look like my old Hackintosh again...

Frank
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:32 PM   #124
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Frank, philipma1957 and Shortcut3d,

Thanks for checking with your systems. I am glad that you guys aren't seeing the issue, and so far the problem is intermittent on my end, as I have been able to recreate the issue only once since.

I was connecting the bus powered USB drive to the iMac directly (sorry, just like Frank I too am using an iMac for these tests, not a Mac Mini), and not via a Hub, though I will try connecting it to a powered USB hub and see if the issue persists.

In the meantime if any of you bought a t-bolt connector without having a GoFlex drive, you can buy a GoFlex 2.5" enclosure from eBay. Here's the link. Mine just arrived this morning, and for $24 it is a steal compared to the amount we spent getting the t-bolt cable and adapter.
Thanks for the link. I gutted my all my 500GB Seagate GoFlex Pro enclosures. I plan to eventually eBay the 500GB 7200RPM drives.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:27 PM   #125
DCJ001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timdafweak View Post
Frank, philipma1957 and Shortcut3d,
In the meantime if any of you bought a t-bolt connector without having a GoFlex drive, you can buy a GoFlex 2.5" enclosure from eBay. Here's the link. Mine just arrived this morning, and for $24 it is a steal compared to the amount we spent getting the t-bolt cable and adapter.
I bought an OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD today from Tiger Direct.

I'm not concerned with using the SSD without an enclosure. I've got one of these silicone sleeves on the way from Hong Kong for $1.52:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Ski...ht_4026wt_1165

as described by the original poster in this thread, as shown in the last two pictures here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...3&postcount=35
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