OSX 10.2 crash happy

[ddtlm]

So far my 10.2 adventure has gone very badly. 10.1 was quite stable on my G4-800-DP, such that I had perhaps 4 or 5 crashes is a year or so. Now I am crashing daily or more... and it's the strangest mode of failure I have ever seen.

First, some random thing stops responding. ICQ did it to me twice, last night a file transfer did it. The rest of the OS seems fine. The little colored wheel pops up. I can switch to other apps fine, and even use them. I browsed around in Mozilla for a while to see if I could, but as soon as I was going to log into this site, Mozilla froze too. Colored wheel. I run a rootless X server (XFree86), and it worked fine. But then I went to list a directory to see if I could, and now the XFree is frozen (though it did list some of the files). Then after a while the doc died. Sometimes the doc will mangify, but freeze when I try to use it.

Edit: More details I just thought of. I can freeze a given app by clicking on the menu bar. Hmmm. Apps frozen in this way can still be dragged around, though not used. Right now I have a single working app, SMB Browse. I can drag it all over, and even do stuff... oh never mind it just froze while I was away. Time to reboot the machine...

So apparently something dies and a part of the OS is then dead. Everything is fine till it touches whatever is dead. The problem builds from there.

I was wondering if anyone else has seen this sort of thing. (Posting from the ol trusty Linux box BTW.)

[oldMac]

This has been happening to me on occasion, as well. Not every day, but almost once a week on my iBook.

[ddtlm]

oldMac:

Hum, too bad. In a way good though, because if enough people are having the problem then Apple will certainly know about it.

This way of crashing is so strange that I'm sure most people that see it will remember it.

[MacSlut]

I've been having problems with Jag as well. It's very frustrating that just as things were getting fixed in OSX, along comes Jag and breaks more things. I have 2 FireWire CD burners that no longer work. A FireWire hard drive that fails to mount. My Zio CF card reader doesn't work. I wanted to buy a new optical mouse, but the ones I liked didn't work with Jag. Numerous apps don't work with Jag. I could go on and on....I hope Apple concentrates on fixing problems with OSX...even if it means fixing 3rd party problems, rather than producing more iCrap that I don't even use because I have better apps.

My biggest problem has to do with restarts, especially if I boot in OS9 so I can use my CD burners. It can take several attempts to reboot before my Mac randomly succeeds at booting...and then I'm afraid to attempt a reboot.

The best advice I can give to others is to make sure all your apps and peripherals are compatible with Jag. This can be tough since many will say, "10.1 or higher" or "10.x". One of my CD burners even said Jag compatible, but then after numerous emails I found that it was not G3 AND Jag compatible.

I now assume everything is NOT Jag compatible, unless it specifically says so, and event then, I still work with the assumption that it may not be.

And yes to all who will ask...I have done numerous re-installs including reformating my drive, zapped PRAM, repaired permissions, and fsk -y.

[peterjhill]

Most likely it is crashing for a darn good reason. Here is a question... did you check the log messages?

AFS was crashing my system. It was a very simple task to go to:
Applications -> Utilities -> Console
and check the log messages. You can then go to:
Console.app -> File Menu -> Open Log
and look in the log file for a specific application.

This is not OS 9 where you had to guess why your system crashed. Unix operating systems are pretty good at letting you know why something stopped working.

Here is an example.
From the console log (which I assume is STDERR)
Oct 21 16:41:01 Titan crashdump: Crash report written to: /Users/phill/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/Microsoft Excel.crash.log
Then in the Excel log:
Command: Microsoft Excel
PID: 519

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000

Along with detailed information that a programmer might be able to use to figure out why it crashed.

For your best bet at fixing your problem, go to:
Console.app -> Preferences -> Crash Tab -> Enable Crash reporting

10.2 is very solid for me. Your problem most likely lies in some application you installed or some buggy piece of hardware you have. Right now, make sure crash reporting is enabled and check your logs.

Are you still reading this, now, go gadget go.

[benixau]

wipe the prefs for the programs that you are using.

Whilst you seem adept in OS X your prefs are located in ~/Library/Preferences/[Application]

hope this helps, it fixed my prob like this.

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by benixau
wipe the prefs for the programs that you are using.

Whilst you seem adept in OS X your prefs are located in ~/Library/Preferences/[Application]

hope this helps, it fixed my prob like this.

Good recommendation, once you know which program is causing the crashing. Thus the recommendation to check the logs.

[mischief]

I won't go all Unix geeky on U.

1st off: There is a known issue with DP machines, peripherals and 10.2.0. Run your System Updater and do ALL THE UPGRADES. Next be sure you don't have conflicting Firewall software: Jag has one built in that works just fine, accessable through the Network Pref Pane.

Those of U with Peripheral problems: U did install Disk 2, yes? Disk 2 has all the accompanying drivers. I DO NOT reccommend that U do a stripped, custom install. I would also highly reccommend www.versiontracker.com for Driver updates.

Boot from the Jag Disk 1 and open Disk Utility from the Installer menu, Fix Permissons and restart.

Hesitancy to reboot from Jag could be several things. Don't just assume it's the OS. Check the addressing for seperate drives in System Profiler to assure that there are Unique addresses. Do U have Jag and OS 9 on seperate drives? On seperate Volumes on the same Drive? Is it 9.2.1 or 9.2.2? Is Jag on a drive running from a Host Card or the mobo?

What is the EXACT config for each of you that's having problems, both Hardware AND Software? I want to help but I need more data.

[peterjhill]

Okay, the guy that started this thread has not been kind enough to let us know if he has had any success getting his issue resolved. There are all these people who are willing to help him, but if all he wants to do is start a thread to complain about something, and blame something that is probably not at fault (ie 10.2), then I am unsure how much further assistance that he will get.

He posted less than 12 hours ago, come on, tell us what is up.

[drastik]

Don't know if this is an option, but...

I had this problem on occasion and I would trash the prefs which worked for awhile. Recently my copy of FinalDraft fo X came in the mail and I unceremoniously dumped 9 from my life. There is not System 9 anything on my Pismo now and I haven't had this problem at all since.

It could have been the old Final Draft itself that was causing the problem, I guess, but getting rid of 9 seemed to fix it.

[GeeYouEye]

Originally posted by peterjhill
Okay, the guy that started this thread has not been kind enough to let us know if he has had any success getting his issue resolved. There are all these people who are willing to help him, but if all he wants to do is start a thread to complain about something, and blame something that is probably not at fault (ie 10.2), then I am unsure how much further assistance that he will get.

He posted less than 12 hours ago, come on, tell us what is up.

Geez, give him a chance here. Aside from the fact that not everyone has 24hr/day computer access, his situation might have gotten worse, to the point where he can't get online. Have a little patience, would you? [/rant]

As to the actual problem, have you fixed permissions, run fsck, etc?

[yamadataro]

In my case, it's kernel panics and the finder going slient, at least one each per day.

I have a feeling that it's one of my sofwtare I've installed that's causing this mess. But all this started to happen a couple of days after the purchase of this machine. And I have an almost identical system running on TiBook which has been running just fine.

I've tried kernel panic solution at Apple's knowledgebase, but it didn't work. I'm not 100% sure about this, but when I tried to find the crash log for OS, I couldn't find one where Apple has told me to look.

I'll try dumping preference files as suggested here. Sounds good assuring. Or try a clean install.

I'm very sad that I'm not so convinced about the god-like stableness of OS X anymore. Even if third party software's causing this I wish it could be more stable.

BTW I'm on 1G-DP 2002 Powermac with OS 10.2.1.

[springscansing]

Well I'm on a DP 450 machine running 10.2.1 with 9.2.1 in classic (not 9.2.2) and I haven't had a single crash yet. So maybe it's not just a DP issue... ?

[peterjhill]

I would not have complained, except for the fact that user has posted on macrumors since the last onslaught of help people have tried to offer.

If you are having problems, read my suggestion above about checking the logs with the console utility. It is your best bet to locate your problem.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by peterjhill
I would not have complained, except for the fact that user has posted on macrumors since the last onslaught of help people have tried to offer.

If you are having problems, read my suggestion above about checking the logs with the console utility. It is your best bet to locate your problem.

I forgot to mention but, Yes, I'll try your solution too. Thanks!

It's just that I can't help offering my miserable stories
I feel real bad about not being able to control the system like I could in OS 9.
I guess I need to learn more about the UNIX stuff...

[beatle888]

I wonder how many of you did a reformat
reinstall before installing jaguar.

i had horrible performance and multiple problems
with jaguar but once i did a reformat reinstall
everything has been running like a super
fantastic dream

so reformat and reinstall if you thing there is
a problem you just cant solve.

wchich brings me t a question ive been
wondering about for a while. now that my
tibook never crashes I dont ever restart it.
is this ok? My powerbook has been on for
atleast a month with no restart.

[evildead]

I gave my girlfriend my old Rev-A iMac with a 466G3 and 192MB RAM. I had 10.1 installed with lots of software on it. Ran fine. I upgraded it to 10.2... and she started compaining about frequent crashing and screen freezing. I just did a clean install of Jag last weekend ... and no complaints. I also installed fewer Apps... she doesnt need much.


I didnt have time to do a clean install on my QuickSilver... cant afford the down time right now. So... I did an upgrade. Everything was working fine for a while but now I get crashes a few times a week. I think the crashes are related to apps... the ones like Carracho and AIM seem to be causing some problems. I have been meaning to do a clean install anyway... I have too much crap on my Mac and I like to test out stuff that I shounldnt. I even have a partition with a test OS on it... for doing crap like that.. I just havent been using it lately.

maybe I need another mac....

-evildead

[mischief]

Originally posted by springscansing
Well I'm on a DP 450 machine running 10.2.1 with 9.2.1 in classic (not 9.2.2) and I haven't had a single crash yet. So maybe it's not just a DP issue... ?

The DP issue is specific to the 133Mhz Mobos.

I keep track of 3 machines running Jag. All 3 were installed over existing OS 10.1.5 and all 3 are healthy. There are no oddball cards, all 3 are G4 towers running QE compliant video cards. I have some freeware Utilities installed but those were chosen very carefully. I have no Warez or other questionable software installed. I do reccommend looking around these threads for Freeware Utilities that can clean up some of the Unix stuff without using the CLI.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by evildead
anyway... I have too much crap on my Mac and I like to test out stuff that I shounldnt. I even have a partition with a test OS on it... for doing crap like that.. I just havent been using it lately.

maybe I need another mac....

-evildead

SEEE this is what i dont understand....People
are so quick to think they need a new computer
when they are having troubles in OSX before
they eve attempt a reformat reinstall.

I thought my tibook just couldnt run OSX jaguar
until i did a reformat reinstall.

Before you spend money on a new computer
atleast TRY a reformat reinstall first.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by mischief
I do reccommend looking around these threads for Freeware Utilities that can clean up some of the Unix stuff without using the CLI.

why would I want to do this?....Isn't OSX already
tuned for us? Why would we want to mess with
Apples "Unix Stuff"?

Also, can you please list the FreeWare Utilities
you mention so that I might consider them?

Thanks you....beatle888

[peterjhill]

Yeah, I agree, the Unix stuff should be the last thing to cause problems. Most of the Unix services can be turned off via control panels (apache, samba). I personally would not use any freeware utilities that mucked with the unix services. I've customized my .cshrc, I've installed Fink, Whatelse could I want to do?

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by beatle888


SEEE this is what i dont understand....People
are so quick to think they need a new computer
when they are having troubles in OSX before
they eve attempt a reformat reinstall.

I thought my tibook just couldnt run OSX jaguar
until i did a reformat reinstall.

Before you spend money on a new computer
atleast TRY a reformat reinstall first.

You're right about spending money on a new computer.

I can't imagine why anyone would need to format their machine unless they installed a Mac OS update/upgrade that wasn't directly from Apple. Apple's betas included a disclaimer not to put their betas on a production machine and that you wouldn't be able to install over it.

I upgraded one machine and archived and installed on the other. Both run quite well. Some applications tend to have hit a new brick wall with memory leaks. Apparently, the system wasn't as thorough prior to 10.2.x.

[evildead]

Originally posted by beatle888


SEEE this is what i dont understand....People
are so quick to think they need a new computer
when they are having troubles in OSX before
they eve attempt a reformat reinstall.

I thought my tibook just couldnt run OSX jaguar
until i did a reformat reinstall.

Before you spend money on a new computer
atleast TRY a reformat reinstall first.

Not a NEW mac.. ANOTHER mac... I want to have more than one Mac so i can get all the stuff done i need to get done at once.... I gave my older one to my girlfriend so no more test Mac

[mischief]

Originally posted by beatle888


why would I want to do this?....Isn't OSX already
tuned for us? Why would we want to mess with
Apples "Unix Stuff"?

Also, can you please list the FreeWare Utilities
you mention so that I might consider them?

Thanks you....beatle888

Yes and no. There are a number of things that OS X.2 does only if left on constantly. Plus there's the occasional issue of files that either won't open or won't delete because their permissions need to be changed to reflect the current User. An individual who's more CLI tolerant than me would go into the console and bang out some BSD commands.

I go to Versiontracker and pick up freeware like Batchmod for permissions, Turbomem for RAM fragmentation, Force Delete for files that won't die. Then there's some stuff that's required coolness like Backlight which runs screensavers in Jag as moving desktop patterns, Cleardock which allows for near-complete Dock customization, Tinkertool which enables more options in System Prefs and Macaroni which allows more direct, non-CLI control of the night-time automated maintenance tasks.

Many of these things could be done from the CLI but after DOS hell when I was younger..... Never again.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by yamadataro
In my case, it's kernel panics and the finder going slient, at least one each per day.

I have a feeling that it's one of my sofwtare I've installed that's causing this mess. But all this started to happen a couple of days after the purchase of this machine. And I have an almost identical system running on TiBook which has been running just fine.

I've tried kernel panic solution at Apple's knowledgebase, but it didn't work. I'm not 100% sure about this, but when I tried to find the crash log for OS, I couldn't find one where Apple has told me to look.

I'll try dumping preference files as suggested here. Sounds good assuring. Or try a clean install.

I'm very sad that I'm not so convinced about the god-like stableness of OS X anymore. Even if third party software's causing this I wish it could be more stable.

BTW I'm on 1G-DP 2002 Powermac with OS 10.2.1.

I've posted the this message a while ago, and just realized that I had a region-free patch for the Pioneer DVD-R drive on my DP Mac. I've found out that they've bug-fixed that problematic patch for use with Jag. Now I've installed this new patch and many of the problems seem to have been gone. Although the finder still stops responding once in a while. Enjecting a disk had caused a freeze a number of times and it makes sense that this patch was the source of the problem.

Weird enough, one of the related problem (I believe) was that Adobe InDesign 2.0 on Jag couldn't use Undo command. With the new DVD drive patch it seems to be working OK.

Well, anyway, sorry for my mess. I should have realized that I was into some risky business of rewriting the ROM on my DVD drive