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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:32 AM   #1
bungiefan89
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Is this just to compete with Windows 8?

Seriously, Lion is LESS than a year old! And already they're talking about the next OS? Was there something wrong with Lion? Did apple just in a snap-decision decide to suddenly release a new operating system every 12 months? Or... is this intended to compete with Windows 8?

Alright, bear with me here for a moment and let me explain my contrived logic here. As some of you may know, a game console known as Sony's PlayStation 2 was released over a decade ago, and it competed against the Nintendo Gamecube and the newest company in the gaming industry: Microsoft and their Xbox game console.

Over the years, the three game consoles started to show their age and gamers wanted better graphics and stuff. So a new line of consoles was scheduled to come out. Nobody knew what Nintendo was planning (they eventually made the Wii, which of course turned out to be a huge hit when it first came out) but everybody pretty much assumed Sony's next console would be called the PlayStation 3. Those assumptions proved to be right.

But what about Microsoft's Xbox? It was the first console of its brand, and with such an uninspiring name, a lot of people assumed Microsoft's next console would be called the Xbox 2. Of course, this would put Microsoft in a tricky spot: they'd have to compete against the PlayStation 3 with an Xbox 2. Which game console do you think your typical know-nothing-about-gaming mother is going to buy little Jimmy for Christmas? Of COURSE she's going to buy the PlayStation 3 and not the Xbox 2... IT HAS A BIGGER NUMBER, SO THAT MUST MEAN IT'S BETTER/NEWER/MORE DESIRED BY MY CHILD!

This all may sound very silly at this point, (caps lock notwithstanding) but understand that I'm talking about a company's perceptions of what consumer perceptions will be. Any slip-up in this situation could mean severe financial losses later on when a product is unveiled, so the presentation and design must be scrutinized.

So, Microsoft did not release a console named the Xbox 2. They released a console named the Xbox 360. Now, as an owner of the game console in question, I can testify there is absolutely nothing circular about the console's design or internal mechanics. 360 is a very arbitrary way to describe the very rectangular, if slightly curvy game console.

But how was this presented? "Exbox three-sixty!" all the commercials said. NOT "Exbox three hundred and sixty", just "Exbox three-sixty" which was obviously intended to compete against the "Play station three".

Bringing us back to the topic at hand here, I think the same logic is being applied by Apple to their operating system. They don't want to be caught in the awkward situation of selling an OS with seven in the name during the same year their competitor is selling an eight!

And that, I believe, is one of the main reasons why Apple is pushing this new OS so soon after the release of Lion. Anybody else share this sentiment? Does this make any sense at all?
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:42 AM   #2
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I think numbers have absolutely nothing to do with anything. This integration with iOS has been happening for some time now.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:45 AM   #3
laudern
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Wink

I hope you do realise the X in OS X stands for 10
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:32 AM   #4
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I don't think your typical consumer even knows that Lion is 10.7. All the publicity materials just call it "Lion."
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 03:24 AM   #5
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I see your point, but I think it has more to do with Apple seeing the profitability in selling a digitally-distributed incremental upgrade every year via an already-proven platform (the App Store).

It also allows the system to evolve at a seemingly faster rate, as perceived by the general public.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:32 AM   #6
tom vilsack
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yes and no

-yes because windows 8 is gonna be a hot product for microsoft

-no because a upgrade for lion is very much needed
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:48 AM   #7
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OP, you seem to have too much time on your hands.
Apple's naming/numbering system has nothing to do with Microsoft's.
The features announced in Mountain Lion are a natural progression in the merging of iOS and MacOS in what is Apple's vision of the "post-PC" era.


Now go back to your WoW.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:54 AM   #8
Bending Pixels
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Originally Posted by tom vilsack View Post

-yes because windows 8 is gonna be a hot product for microsoft
Have you seen Win8's "Metro" interface? It's based on the highly successful ( ) Windows Phone 7.5 interface (and we know how successful Windows Phone has been). A number of industry insiders have already pointed out the awkwardness of the interface, and several corporate surveys show that the enterprise won't be migrating to Win8 or Win8 server.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:05 PM   #9
bungiefan89
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Originally Posted by eawmp1 View Post
OP, you seem to have too much time on your hands.
true.
Quote:
Apple's naming/numbering system has nothing to do with Microsoft's.
I know that, but I'm saying the potential threat of competition from another company and the percieved stupidity of certain consumers may be spurring the quick deployment of this OS.
Quote:
The features announced in Mountain Lion are a natural progression in the merging of iOS and MacOS in what is Apple's vision of the "post-PC" era.
meh.
Quote:
Now go back to your WoW.
I am proud to have never played that silly game.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:44 PM   #10
Partron22
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Originally Posted by laudern View Post
the X in OS X stands for 10
Wait, wait, you're saying Mutants got nothing to do with it???!

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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:56 PM   #11
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Download the Windows 8 preview and see for yourself if it's a threat. Windows 8 is kind of a joke. I fully expect Windows 7 to be the next XP and enjoy a full 10 years of support in the enterprise while everyone overlooks 8 in hopes that 9 will fix everything.

Maybe people will love the whole "Metro" thing and the one OS across all platforms but I just can't see Windows 8 being something that would cause Apple to change their roadmap.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:17 PM   #12
Yamcha
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Not 100% If OS 10.8 Lion is meant to compete with Windows 8, but It's plausible since the Windows Consumer Preview is due end of this month..

There seems to be a decent amount of people who aren't fond of the new Windows Metro UI, I personally like the User Interface, that being said I don't think it provides the best User Experience for Desktop or Laptop though..

But I do think that the Metro UI is one of the better experiences on the mobile platform.. They did a pretty good job in my opinion..

I think one of the really great things about Windows 8 is the performance, there seems to be a noticeable improvement in performance.. And that might be enough for me to upgrade my BootCamp Partition to Windows 8..
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:05 PM   #13
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http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/02/...sure-on-apple/

Perhaps the most revealing part of the interview is Cook’s response when pushed on whether the company has adapted its strategy in response to pressure from other software companies and device makers, most notably Microsoft:

“I don’t really think anything Microsoft does puts pressure on Apple.”

Cook relayed the same message as his predecessor, Apple builds the best quality products it can and remains “self-induced.”
Truth. And it's a truth that's very hard to miss these days.

We're not dealing with the Microsoft of 10-15 years ago. Those days are over for them, unfortunately.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 07:33 PM   #14
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Your opinion is interesting. But the number really does that matter? What about Wii? It is II and 2. And it had better sales.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 09:24 PM   #15
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xbox is considered 360 because of the middle thing on the controller, otherwise it's xbox 2.

playstation 3 is named 3 because sony can't figure out a better name

OS X is Operating System 10...

windows 8 is not even OS 8, its more like OS 10-11 if you count them all

apple markets osx 8 as mountain lion, most people will only hear mountain lion.

this thread is fail, its over thinking.

why would a company care about numbers? mac users don't care about windows... vice versa, i don't care if MS releases windows 11 tomorrow, i still won't buy it. anything microsoft sucks according to me, except xbox live arcade

i rather compete against android than windows.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 09:31 PM   #16
jameslmoser
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Originally Posted by bungiefan89 View Post
Seriously, Lion is LESS than a year old! And already they're talking about the next OS? Was there something wrong with Lion?
Don't get me started. It appears that Mountain Lion will suck less then Lion already, but I am still hopeful there are more changes coming. Specifically with multimonitor support, and for the love of god OPTIONS!
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 09:41 PM   #17
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Uh, have you even looked at WHAT MOUNTAIN LION INCLUDES?

Logic has failed you, horribly.

1. Lion is released to bring iOS features to the Mac.

2. iOS 5 is released with lots of new iOS features.

3. Mountain Lion is (will be) released to bring iOS 5 features to the Mac.

This couldn't be any simpler, or make any more sense.

Apple has never, ever, driven Mac OS to compete with Windows. Not ever. That's like saying Mercedes does whatever it can to compete with Kia. No, it doesn't even enter their minds. They just make a better vehicle, and charge for it.

----------

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Originally Posted by jameslmoser View Post
Don't get me started. It appears that Mountain Lion will suck less then Lion already, but I am still hopeful there are more changes coming. Specifically with multimonitor support, and for the love of god OPTIONS!
Go get a copy of Windows. Seriously. You have unlimited options to screw up your machine to your heart's content.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 10:31 PM   #18
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Uh, have you even looked at WHAT MOUNTAIN LION INCLUDES?

Logic has failed you, horribly.

1. Lion is released to bring iOS features to the Mac.

2. iOS 5 is released with lots of new iOS features.

3. Mountain Lion is (will be) released to bring iOS 5 features to the Mac.

This couldn't be any simpler, or make any more sense.

Apple has never, ever, driven Mac OS to compete with Windows. Not ever. That's like saying Mercedes does whatever it can to compete with Kia. No, it doesn't even enter their minds. They just make a better vehicle, and charge for it.

----------



Go get a copy of Windows. Seriously. You have unlimited options to screw up your machine to your heart's content.
I have more options in Snow Leopard than I did in Lion, and my machine is running perfectly thank you very much.

Most of the "features" in Mountain Lion were already there, they just broke them out of other apps and made them look like the iOS counter parts... like renaming Address Book to Contacts and iCal to Calendar are real big features

Mountain Lion is damage control because Lion sucks and everyone knows it.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 11:44 PM   #19
bungiefan89
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Download the Windows 8 preview and see for yourself if it's a threat. Windows 8 is kind of a joke. I fully expect Windows 7 to be the next XP and enjoy a full 10 years of support in the enterprise while everyone overlooks 8 in hopes that 9 will fix everything.

Maybe people will love the whole "Metro" thing and the one OS across all platforms but I just can't see Windows 8 being something that would cause Apple to change their roadmap.
I couldn't agree more. From what little I've seen of Windows 8 it looks like a big fat joke, or just the next Vista. And I'm STILL quite pissed that I have to use this lame Metro UI on my Xbox... it REALLY doesn't work with a controller.

Yes, I don't think Windows 8 is a threat in any way. I just think some people at Apple might think some consumers are dumb enough to turn Windows 8 in to a threat.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick513 View Post
Your opinion is interesting. But the number really does that matter? What about Wii? It is II and 2. And it had better sales.
It's not the "Double-you two", it's pronounced "we".

And the Wii was marketed from the very beginning as something completely different. From the other two consoles. Hell, the codename for the system was "Revolution". Once they revealed the controller design, they got HUGE media attention over the motion-sensing technology. The Wii hugely stood out from the crowd and made huge sales when it first came out. Very different story than the 360 or PS3.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jameslmoser View Post
I have more options in Snow Leopard than I did in Lion, and my machine is running perfectly thank you very much.

Most of the "features" in Mountain Lion were already there, they just broke them out of other apps and made them look like the iOS counter parts... like renaming Address Book to Contacts and iCal to Calendar are real big features

Mountain Lion is damage control because Lion sucks and everyone knows it.
Funny that I don't know it and I know for a fact I use my computer harder than almost anyone on this board.

Lion works fine, its usually the user thats the issue. (Not implying you, I'm just saying in general).
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:34 AM   #21
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I think the yearly release is just Apple looking at the future of the OS now that it's reasonably mature and realizing that most project are either big expansive multi-year overhauls (like file systems, Resolution Independence or break up the Kernel so they can replace the Mach) that they need to drip feed API changes out to developers so they'll be ready. Or quick 3-6month stuff.

They could just release the quick stuff piecemeal as they go but they want it to drive adoption of the low level stuff.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:37 AM   #22
jameslmoser
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Funny that I don't know it and I know for a fact I use my computer harder than almost anyone on this board.

Lion works fine, its usually the user thats the issue. (Not implying you, I'm just saying in general).
Right.. beach ball system freezes and kernel panics on a brand new imac with nothing installed but Lion and apple software is definitely a user issue... it went away when installing Windows 7 and eventually Snow Leopard.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:46 AM   #23
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Right.. beach ball system freezes and kernel panics on a brand new imac with nothing installed but Lion and apple software is definitely a user issue... it went away when installing Windows 7 and eventually Snow Leopard.
Yes clearly they are a user a issue, because that's not supposed to happen, and very rarely ever does. Did you ever consider you received a corrupt HDD? More than likely you have a corrupt HDD right now and don't know it. Seen it a million times. But then again, I have experience with technology. From your whiny childish standpoint, I can see that you don't.

Only the most immature person could ever conclude that their unfortunate luck with an OS means that OS is terrible, and faulty.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:51 AM   #24
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It's because (and I say this as a Lion user/fan) - Lion is a bit of a dog, performance wise.

the features I love. the performance compered to snow leopard, not so great. but i have fast hardware so i tolerate it.


I think Lion is going to be remembered as the OS X Vista edition, and Mountain Lion is going to be the equivalent of 7.

I.e., in Vista (10.7), there was a lot of new tech added under the covers that needed to be done, whereas in 7 (10.8) its more about refinement and performance improvement....
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:55 AM   #25
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Download the Windows 8 preview and see for yourself if it's a threat. Windows 8 is kind of a joke. I fully expect Windows 7 to be the next XP and enjoy a full 10 years of support in the enterprise while everyone overlooks 8 in hopes that 9 will fix everything.
I agree that Windows 7 has all the makings of being the "next XP." It is stable, has a familiar interface, and is compatible with just about everything. I don't think Windows 8 is a complete "joke," though. It may emerge as a viable tablet OS, particularly as Android tablets (apart from the Kindle Fire) continue to struggle to gain traction.

I've used the Windows 8 Developer Preview (albeit in a less-than-ideal virtual setup in Parallels), and I'm not sure I see the appeal of the Metro UI on the desktop. I think Apple has struck a better balance of being consistent where it makes sense, and being different where it makes sense.
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