Apple Developing Numbers?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif

AppleInsider reports that Apple has requested a standard character mark for "Numbers" and is currently working on a spreadsheet application to possibly supplement the iWork application suite.

Sales of the iWork suite dropped significantly after release, with analysts believeing that the problem (among others) was the lack of a spreadsheet element.

[WildCowboy]

It's about time...I won't even consider iWork until they have a spreadsheet application.

[itsa]

Originally Posted by WildCowboy

It's about time...I won't even consider iWork until they have a spreadsheet application.

I got it thinking there would be.... but I guess you should never assume.
I use keynotes more than anything... so I would have bought it either way.

[mkaake]

Originally Posted by Macrumors

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif

AppleInsider reports that Apple has requested a standard character mark for "Numbers" and is currently working on a spreadsheet application to possibly supplement the iWork application suite.

Sales of the iWork suite dropped significantly after release, with analysts believeing that the problem (among others) was the lack of a spreadsheet element.

I always thought the problem was that people thought Pages was targetted at Word... and then were a little dissapointed. It's really great when used for it's intended purpose, but a Word killer, it is not (and is not intended to be).

It would be nice to see an alternative to Excel, but I have my doubts to how well it can be... hate Microsoft all you want, but Excel is pretty good at what it does...

<edit>

what would be nice, now that I think about it, is if apple did to Numbers what they did with pages - not targetting excel, but rather targetting the home user, and setting up an easy to use system, with templates that do what the average home user might want from a spreadsheet. I'm comfy using spreadsheets all day long, but if you sit my wife in front of one, she's dumbfounded as to what to do... but if Apple did it up right... it could be a very usefull tool, even for peeps like my wife...

[roadapple]

Originally Posted by mkaake

not targetting excel, but rather targetting the home user, and setting up an easy to use system, with templates that do what the average home user might want from a spreadsheet.

and rename it iWork@Home

With the current name it needs to be an Office killer.

[BarryBrown]

I wish they would ressurect Lotus Improv. It was a spreadsheet/database application that shipped with the NeXT. It was, in my opinion, ahead of its time because everyone wanted a spreadsheet that looked like Excel. Perhaps now it's time to bring it back?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv

http://infocom.cqu.edu.au/Staff/Mich...us_improv.html

[SorcerersAppren]

Originally Posted by BarryBrown

I wish they would ressurect Lotus Improv. It was a spreadsheet/database application that shipped with the NeXT. It was, in my opinion, ahead of its time because everyone wanted a spreadsheet that looked like Excel. Perhaps now it's time to bring it back?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv

http://infocom.cqu.edu.au/Staff/Mich...us_improv.html

Bring back Improv. Amazing product for NeXt all written in Cocoa.

[Loge]

Originally Posted by BarryBrown

I wish they would ressurect Lotus Improv. It was a spreadsheet/database application that shipped with the NeXT. It was, in my opinion, ahead of its time because everyone wanted a spreadsheet that looked like Excel. Perhaps now it's time to bring it back?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv

http://infocom.cqu.edu.au/Staff/Mich...us_improv.html

I agree. It has a far superior paradigm to that of Excel, by allowing for proper separation and organisation of formulas and data. Excel was great for its time, but the fundamental design hasn't changed in ages and its about time we moved forward. I've lost count of the number of really badly designed spreadsheets I've seen.

Even if it's not that, Excel is way more than most home users need, and I would welcome an addition to iWork.

And Pages? I haven't used it yet but just remember it's at Version 1.

[iMeowbot]

Originally Posted by BarryBrown

I wish they would ressurect Lotus Improv. It was a spreadsheet/database application that shipped with the NeXT. It was, in my opinion, ahead of its time because everyone wanted a spreadsheet that looked like Excel. Perhaps now it's time to bring it back?

I'm sure that IBM are champing at the bit looking for ways to help support Macintel!

[Cliffy]

Originally Posted by roadapple

and rename it iWork@Home

With the current name it needs to be an Office killer.

Most times I walk past desks at the office, people have Excel open to make calendars, phone lists, and lots of other things that could be done in Word if they set up columns. I think that is what people think Excel is for.

[MongoTheGeek]

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Most times I walk past desks at the office, people have Excel open to make calendars, phone lists, and lots of other things that could be done in Word if they set up columns. I think that is what people think Excel is for.

Most people don't use Excel for what it was designed for. Hence the database/spreadsheet question. Spreadsheets are designed for storing and performing simple operations on a variable set of numbers. They are designed to prototype and test a variety of parameters. Databases are to store and relate data and compare how data are related.

Excel is often used as a page layout program and often as a simple database. Filemaker on the other hand I've seen used as a spread sheet. Both can do the function of the other but not well.

I was expecting to hear about a a spreadsheet app but no luck. Apple needs it if they expect iWork to compete. I haven't used pages so I can't comment on its quality.

[Lead Belly]

Is there evidence that Numbers is actually a spreadsheet program? There have been rumors of Apple developing a spreadsheet app and rumors of them developing a financial app. iWork was initially rumored to be an invoicing application.

Numbers could be a home and small business budgeting/finances/billing application. The name Numbers has more of an association with money and budgeting than a spreadsheet, which can be extremely versatile.

This would have a far wider appeal to most of Apple's market (home users, small businesses, freelancers, design studios, etc.) than a spreadsheet program, even though a spreadsheet program can be set up to do all of those things.

There was a market for an artfully done, focused presentation program that Apple has filled.

I feel there is a market for an artfully done, focused document building program that Apple may be able to fill.

Is there a market for an artfully done, focused spreadsheet program? Who truly needs that? People that need a spreadsheet app need the power and flexibility that Excel offers. Most don't need power in a word processing or a presentation application.

Meanwhile, look at iTunes, iPhoto, iCal, etc. It looks kind of like Apple has been incorporating specific-use, speadsheet-like environments into many of the apps we already use. I realize these are not spreadsheets, but to 80% of people looking at them, that's what they would use to a spreadsheet application for. Is it possible Apple is already showing us the extent of their speadsheet intentions by applying spreadsheet-like middleman to purposeful applications?

[NtotheIzoo]

Originally Posted by mkaake

what would be nice, now that I think about it, is if apple did to Numbers what they did with pages - not targetting excel, but rather targetting the home user, and setting up an easy to use system, with templates that do what the average home user might want from a spreadsheet. I'm comfy using spreadsheets all day long, but if you sit my wife in front of one, she's dumbfounded as to what to do... but if Apple did it up right... it could be a very usefull tool, even for peeps like my wife...

I totally agree w/ u...my parents are the same way. Excel can be an extremely powerful tool...i believe one of my CS teachers told us that the excel language is the most popular programming language...a normal user doesnt need all this functionality, some very simple spreadsheet program w/ built-in templates would do wonders.

[roadapple]

Originally Posted by NtotheIzoo

I totally agree w/ u...my parents are the same way. Excel can be an extremely powerful tool...i believe one of my CS teachers told us that the excel language is the most popular programming language...a normal user doesnt need all this functionality, some very simple spreadsheet program w/ built-in templates would do wonders.

That's what is great about Excel, 90% of the people who use it don't know or even understand how powerful a program it is, yet easily use it everyday for their tasks.

[Kelmon]

When iWork was announced I thought it was a pretty good idea (particularly in terms of its price) but the one thing it was missing, as an office application suite for those that don't need Office 2004, was a spreadsheet. Everyone uses a spreadsheet these days even at home and the lack of one in iWork was the reason why I wasn't as impressed as I should have been. Since I already own Office 2004 I think it is unlikely that I will ever buy a copy of iWork (even with Numbers) but if it was added into the standard application bundle with a new Mac then it would be another great reason to buy Apple. iLife is already regarded as a major selling point for the Mac Mini and iMac, so iWork would really help.

[jicon]

A somewhat related comment... apparently the next version of Office will create XML documents.

If this is true, it may be a bit easier for companies to create better working importers and exporters for your standard slew of MS Office documents.

[Freg3000]

Pages doesn't fit into what a nicely made Cocoa app from Apple should look like to me. It is not intuitive at all, taking a while for me to do anything with it. Apple needs to clean Pages up before i start to use it.

[Eniregnat]

It would also be nice if iWork came with a DB management/creation tool.

A spreadsheet application is a must, and I don't know how they missed on that one. Heck, AppleWorks had word-processing, data base, and spread sheet capability and that was with 64k. -We went to the moon on 64k! Sorry, brain hiccup.- These days those applications are jokes with the power that other programs offer, but they worked.

Wow, what a screw up. If VisiCalc was the first killer app for personal computers, then why would Apple not create a spread sheet program for iWork.

[goof_ball]

I think we can all agree that a spreadsheet app is a crucial element to an office suite. If Apple creates am Pages/spreadsheet/Keynote office suite, I think it would do VERY good against Microsh*t Office.

[gerbilbox]

Originally Posted by Freg3000

Pages doesn't fit into what a nicely made Cocoa app from Apple should look like to me. It is not intuitive at all, taking a while for me to do anything with it. Apple needs to clean Pages up before i start to use it.

That's funny, I found learning Pages a lot easier than learning Word.

Granted there are many odds and ends, and Pages can be significantly cleaned up and improved on the UI front, but I found things in Pages a lot more accessible than in Word.

[kherdin]

Speaking of reinventing the wheel, you do realise Filemaker is a subsidary of Apple?

Of course, Excel is not a database app (well not really, anyways), Access is. Why are you talking about Apple making a database app?

[stevep]

Originally posted by BarryBrown

I wish they would ressurect Lotus Improv

I second that - it was one of the first pieces of software I bought and I ran it on Windows 3.11. It came on 3 floppies (those were the days).
It was really intuitive, and allowed you to sort data in an amazing number of ways. Looking back, it had a similar feel to a lot of current Apple apps. Unfortunately it had to compete with Lotus 123 as well as Excel, in what was, even then, a fairly well-established market.
But if Steve Jobs wants to borrow my 3 discs and the manual for research purposes I still have them............

[speleoterra]

Originally Posted by Freg3000

Pages doesn't fit into what a nicely made Cocoa app from Apple should look like to me. It is not intuitive at all, taking a while for me to do anything with it. Apple needs to clean Pages up before i start to use it.

Sorry buddy,.. from a design and pre-press background.
Pages is what it is,...and it's way more intuative than Word.
Besides InDesign&Quark for pro stuff,...i have not used word since Pages came out. Even my die hard MS Office corporate wife converted.
It's got room to grow though.

[Disturbed]

Originally Posted by Freg3000

Pages doesn't fit into what a nicely made Cocoa app from Apple should look like to me. It is not intuitive at all, taking a while for me to do anything with it. Apple needs to clean Pages up before i start to use it.

I agree 100%. The layout is awful. WHY won't Apple place toolbar buttons for font size, bold, type, etc??? None of the Apple apps have this and it drives me crazy. I should not have to go to hoops to make text bold.

[InsiderTravels]

Originally Posted by Disturbed

I agree 100%. The layout is awful. WHY won't Apple place toolbar buttons for font size, bold, type, etc??? None of the Apple apps have this and it drives me crazy. I should not have to go to hoops to make text bold.

View > Customize Toolbar