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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:20 PM   #1
Rmafive
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DTS HD/True HD Handbrake

For the past year I have been using MakeMKV to create MKV copies of blu ray disks and when I choose the audio I always choose the downgraded version (either DTS or DD vs. the DTS HD and True HD). I can't seem to find an answer as to whether the HD audio is supported in Handbrake or if it is still in development. Does anyone have any experience with HD audio in Handbrake? I feel like I might be missing out on some great sound when I rip blu ray movies. Is there a noticeable difference between HD audio and standard audio?
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 07:44 PM   #2
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Well when converting to the Apple formats you can't use DTS-MA or TrueHD; Handbrake can read those streams (at least the core) and creates an AC3 stream from it. That's the best quality you're gonna get right now. I really don't see Apple supporting DTS-MA or TrueHD as the size of the audio streams is simply too large.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 08:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rmafive View Post
For the past year I have been using MakeMKV to create MKV copies of blu ray disks and when I choose the audio I always choose the downgraded version (either DTS or DD vs. the DTS HD and True HD). I can't seem to find an answer as to whether the HD audio is supported in Handbrake or if it is still in development. Does anyone have any experience with HD audio in Handbrake? I feel like I might be missing out on some great sound when I rip blu ray movies. Is there a noticeable difference between HD audio and standard audio?
Yes, Handbrake will process DTS and TrueHD audio. Depending on what you intend to use for playback, conversion to either AC3 (dolby digital) and/or AAC would be the way to go. I usually mix down to 6-channel AAC and a backup 2-channel AAC (dolby prologic II) but that isn't necessarily the best for everyone.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:59 PM   #4
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I really don't see Apple supporting DTS-MA or TrueHD as the size of the audio streams is simply too large.
I hope you're wrong about "supporting". For example, Apple has long supported lossless audio without including it in files we can buy.

Why not support those standards even if there is no intention of including it in (potential) 1080p iTunes rentals? Why not match the capabilities of Blu Ray in the next gen box even if the software- at least initially- won't have that level of picture & sound?
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:05 PM   #5
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I hope you're wrong about "supporting". For example, Apple has long supported lossless audio without including it in files we can buy.

Why not support those standards even if there is no intention of including it in (potential) 1080p iTunes rentals? Why not match the capabilities of Blu Ray in the next gen box even if the software- at least initially- won't have that level of picture & sound?
Maybe Apple might. I guess it depends on how much it would cost them to license the tech for inclusion in their products. But as of now, playback of DTS and TrueHD is very limited on Apple products, so the OP needs to convert formats.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 01:41 AM   #6
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Have you seen in your MKV files what the size of a DTS-MA or TrueHD audio track is? There's simply no feasible way to include them in an Apple format. AC3 at 640Kbps is big enough (400 to 600MB per track) no way are they going to support those, sorry. You will have to downmix.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 08:33 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
I hope you're wrong about "supporting". For example, Apple has long supported lossless audio without including it in files we can buy.

Why not support those standards even if there is no intention of including it in (potential) 1080p iTunes rentals? Why not match the capabilities of Blu Ray in the next gen box even if the software- at least initially- won't have that level of picture & sound?
If I remember correctly, the MP4 standard will allow these codecs (at least DTS-HD, DTS-MA but I'd be surprised if the Dolby equivalents were not also defined), but as of now they have not been fully implemented by their respective owners.

http://www.mp4ra.org/codecs.html
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 08:53 AM   #8
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Have you seen in your MKV files what the size of a DTS-MA or TrueHD audio track is? There's simply no feasible way to include them in an Apple format.
There certainly is a way. It's not impossible. It's just an option to include them needing some endorsement (and respective licensing) by Apple. File sizes can be however big someone wants. Implying "no feasible way" may be your personal view but it's definitely not a statement of fact.

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AC3 at 640Kbps is big enough (400 to 600MB per track) no way are they going to support those, sorry. You will have to downmix.
While YOU may be happy with AC3, it doesn't mean EVERYONE should be happy with it. Some people want different things (than you). Personally, I'm pretty happy with iTunes Plus quality (AAC 256) but would find no fault with anyone if Apple offered the exact same music in Apple lossless. That would be much larger files too but some people don't mind the file sizes for the quality (or perception of quality) difference.

AC3 sounds great to me too. But it is an OLD standard from the 1990's. There has been a lot of progress in audio standards since AC3 was launched. Having options for those better standards is good. Those happy with AC3 should keep enjoying their AC3. Those wanting better-than-AC3, should be able to get what they want too.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:12 AM   #9
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There certainly is a way. It's not impossible. It's just an option to include them needing some endorsement (and respective licensing) by Apple. File sizes can be however big someone wants. Implying "no feasible way" may be your personal view but it's definitely not a statement of fact.
Of course it is 'possible' just as Blu Ray quality 35Mbps video is 'possible' as well but Apple is not going to put up 25GB files for iTunes Movie downloads. Not with the state of 'Broadband' in the USA, at least. Hell look how long it took them for 720P and even now the bitrate they use is pretty low (around 4Mbps or so). I just don't see them putting an audio track that takes up several GIGABYTES in these files. Could they allow it in encodes that you do on your own? Sure, but that would create fragmentation, and Apple despises that.


Quote:
While YOU may be happy with AC3, it doesn't mean EVERYONE should be happy with it. Some people want different things (than you). Personally, I'm pretty happy with iTunes Plus quality (AAC 256) but would find no fault with anyone if Apple offered the exact same music in Apple lossless. That would be much larger files too but some people don't mind the file sizes for the quality (or perception of quality) difference.
I think AC3 is good (hell AAC is good enough for me most of the time) but sure I would love to be able to put the original DTS-MA or TrueHD audio tracks untouched in with my encodes. I would not mind the larger file size as I am not downloading them over the net. But again, I don't see Apple supporting this. Not any time in the near future, at least.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 10:58 AM   #10
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I do know that Apple will not support these large audio files in the iTunes Store for quite a while. Would converting DTS-HD to AC3 be better quality that converting DTS to AC3? I am really looking for the best possible audio quality. I always add a DD stream, so my Apple devices can play the video. I usually play my video on my Mac pro with Plex.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:44 AM   #11
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I do know that Apple will not support these large audio files in the iTunes Store for quite a while. Would converting DTS-HD to AC3 be better quality that converting DTS to AC3? I am really looking for the best possible audio quality. I always add a DD stream, so my Apple devices can play the video. I usually play my video on my Mac pro with Plex.
It would be th same; handbrake simply extracts the DTS core from the DTS-HD soundtrack to convert to AC3.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 12:35 AM   #12
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It would be th same; handbrake simply extracts the DTS core from the DTS-HD soundtrack to convert to AC3.
The latest Handbrake release will passthrough the full DTS-HD bit stream. Problem is, there are still no Mac OS codecs for these formats. But if your hell bent on wanting your higher bitrate streams to play from a Mac via Plex, there are some hoops you can jump through to get there. (It isn't pretty, currently involves a free Windows utility, but it works.)

More info is available via this thread in the Plex forums:

http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/...37#entry246237
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 10:55 AM   #13
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The latest Handbrake release will passthrough the full DTS-HD bit stream. Problem is, there are still no Mac OS codecs for these formats. But if your hell bent on wanting your higher bitrate streams to play from a Mac via Plex, there are some hoops you can jump through to get there. (It isn't pretty, currently involves a free Windows utility, but it works.)

More info is available via this thread in the Plex forums:

http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/...37#entry246237
True, my point was that the "extra" information in DTS-HD is lost when you are converting to AC3. Handbrake will only use the core DTS soundtrack.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 06:38 PM   #14
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DTS and .m4v files

Handbrake is now allowing you to add DTS tracks to .m4v encodes, but I'm not finding any applications that will output the DTS from the m4v. Should that be the case?

I've encoded a few movies with track 1 being stereo, track 2 being DD5.1, and track 3 being DTS. The file plays and audio is passed when using tracks 1 and 2, but does silent when I select track 3. Note that mkv's with DTS play fine through VLC.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 07:37 AM   #15
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I did not realize that the current version of Handbrake allowed for DTS-HD pass through. Would it be possible to add an additional audio track in the form of DtS-HD for future proofing? I am not crazy about using the higher bit rate now, but I probably will want it in my rips when it becomes more compatible in the future.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 09:36 AM   #16
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I did not realize that the current version of Handbrake allowed for DTS-HD pass through. Would it be possible to add an additional audio track in the form of DtS-HD for future proofing? I am not crazy about using the higher bit rate now, but I probably will want it in my rips when it becomes more compatible in the future.
You can add it, but I'm having issues finding a player that supports any DTS tracks in an m4v container. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've tried adding it as a third audio track on my conversions and can't get anything to play that audio track.

Also, note that the DTS-HD MA tracks seem to be very large. I converted Tintin to mkv with the standard DTS track and did another conversion with all the same settings except for allowing the audio to be DTS-HD MA, and the file sizes were 4.85GB (DTS) and 7.6GB (DTS-HD MA). So, that's nearly 3GB larger just for the audio. I also did an m4v conversion with three audio tracks (stereo AAC, DD5.1, and DTS) and the 1080p file was 5.5GB.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:28 AM   #17
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You can add it, but I'm having issues finding a player that supports any DTS tracks in an m4v container. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've tried adding it as a third audio track on my conversions and can't get anything to play that audio track.

Also, note that the DTS-HD MA tracks seem to be very large. I converted Tintin to mkv with the standard DTS track and did another conversion with all the same settings except for allowing the audio to be DTS-HD MA, and the file sizes were 4.85GB (DTS) and 7.6GB (DTS-HD MA). So, that's nearly 3GB larger just for the audio. I also did an m4v conversion with three audio tracks (stereo AAC, DD5.1, and DTS) and the 1080p file was 5.5GB.
DTS-HD cannot be passed thru when using the MP4/M4V container. What you'll end up with is the DTS core instead. There are only a handful applications that can actually recognize and use this soundtrack... I want to say VLC is one of them but I'm honestly not sure.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 11:08 AM   #18
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DTS-HD cannot be passed thru when using the MP4/M4V container. What you'll end up with is the DTS core instead. There are only a handful applications that can actually recognize and use this soundtrack... I want to say VLC is one of them but I'm honestly not sure.
Yeah, I should really jump on the Handbrake forums and check out there. Seems like DTS core should be supported, but its the lack of audio during playback that leaves me a bit confused. I'd think that VLC could dissect the file and play audio and video respectively, but seems like something isn't quite right (either with VLC or Handbrake).
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 04:30 PM   #19
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Yeah, I should really jump on the Handbrake forums and check out there. Seems like DTS core should be supported, but its the lack of audio during playback that leaves me a bit confused. I'd think that VLC could dissect the file and play audio and video respectively, but seems like something isn't quite right (either with VLC or Handbrake).
VLC doesn't understand DTS in m4v. I've heard mplayer can but haven't tried it yet.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 06:03 PM   #20
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VLC doesn't understand DTS in m4v. I've heard mplayer can but haven't tried it yet.
Looks like MplayerX does support it. I'm pretty sure it didn't the other day, but I did just do an update (v1.0.13). Or I'm just crazy...
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 06:17 PM   #21
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with DD conversion to ac3 make sure your turn on DRC or you will be turning the volume up and down constantly.

I dunno how it works when converting DTS though...
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 06:19 PM   #22
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with DD conversion to ac3 make sure your turn on DRC or you will be turning the volume up and down constantly.

I dunno how it works when converting DTS though...
DD conversion to ac3? Isn't DD (dolby digital) the same as AC-3
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 06:21 PM   #23
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DD conversion to ac3? Isn't DD (dolby digital) the same as AC-3
apologies, I meant AAC
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 08:39 PM   #24
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You can add it, but I'm having issues finding a player that supports any DTS tracks in an m4v container. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've tried adding it as a third audio track on my conversions and can't get anything to play that audio track.

Also, note that the DTS-HD MA tracks seem to be very large. I converted Tintin to mkv with the standard DTS track and did another conversion with all the same settings except for allowing the audio to be DTS-HD MA, and the file sizes were 4.85GB (DTS) and 7.6GB (DTS-HD MA). So, that's nearly 3GB larger just for the audio. I also did an m4v conversion with three audio tracks (stereo AAC, DD5.1, and DTS) and the 1080p file was 5.5GB.
That's the problem, the size of the audio streams is simply too large. TrueHD and DTS-MA are gigabytes of audio data. Just not feasible right now and probably not for the foreseeable future, either.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:19 AM   #25
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Here is some more information about the Handbrake patch that enabled DTS in MP4. From the notes, any players based on ffmpeg *might* be able to read the soundtrack properly.

https://reviews.handbrake.fr/r/126/
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