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Old Mar 1, 2012, 07:50 AM   #1
MrAndy1369
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Thumbs down Mountain Lion vs. Windows 8

Wow. Some thoughts... I'm actually a new Apple user - quite a recent convert in December. I've seen all the complaints about Apple turning OSX into iOS, and agreed with some of the complaints. I was actually dreading seeing what ML was all about, only seeing iOS features being brought over, without any true innovation to the OS.

Then I saw the pictures of the Windows 8 Consumer Review...and WOW. All I can say is, I'm so grateful I switched over to Apple. OSX may be becoming a bit iOS-like, especially with ML, but seeing the mess Windows 8 is, I'm incredibly looking forward to ML now. Yes, Apple is porting iOS features over to OSX, and there may be an endgame of full unification between the two OSes, but Apple is doing a much better job than Microsoft. At least we still get full control through System Preferences, Terminal, Single User Mode, and the Finder in ML. iOS apps (such as Reminders, iMessages) may not exactly conform to the UI guidelines for OSX, but they blend in reasonably well compared to the Metro and all the ugly, overly colorful apps. Orange? Lime green? Gag me. Explorer may still give the user control in W8, but it's still just a jumbled mess and IMHO looks ugly and inconsisent. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Other than iOS apps sticking out just a teeny bit in ML, the overall look and feel of OSX is still beautiful, simple, and clean.

All this, coming from a formerly loyal Windows user. I used to live and breathe Microsoft/Windows. I still love Windows 7. But, Windows 8...forget it. Others may love it, embrace it, but I'm going to stick with a slightly iOSized ML desktop, thankyouverymuch.

We're lucky. My two cents.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:08 AM   #2
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You can disable the Metro interface in 8, and go back to a very 7-esque desktop. But I agree, the Win OS is becoming more and more 'streamlined' -- I don't think you can get a Start button back in 8, no matter what -- which, really, is something that started in Vista and has continued on through 7, plus feature creep from Office 2007/2010's ribbon. Clearly it is Microsoft's initiative and there's no getting around it.

I like OSX, and iOS, and I'm all for more unificiation, but I think Apple understands the aesthetics more, and will know there will remain a separation between desktop/laptop and mobile device UIs. iCloud and other backend improvements will do wonders to 'unify' the two OSes without necessarily changing their feel... and yes, getting your application/service names consistent across both platforms is also key. Contacts should be Contacts on the desktop and when mobile; it just makes sense.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:34 AM   #3
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Windows 8 is pretty awesome as a concept. But what a mess it is for a desktop/laptop. While you can disable Metro, it is clear that perhaps Windows 9 will no longer include the Windows Desktop.

Live tiles, and being able to display two apps at once is great for tablets, and something the iPad really needs to catch up on. The multitasking gestures and application switcher is nice too.

I think tablets and laptops will live together for a long time, rather than tablets replacing laptops. While tablets are becoming more powerful in what they can do, a laptop will always be preferred for doing real work. Tablet for consuming, laptop for producing.

Windows 8 seems to just splatter everything across all devices. Metro tiles and interactions aren't ideal for a laptop, even with a multitouch trackpad. I think Windows 8 should be tablet only, with a PC version that has many of the features but optimised for a keyboard and mouse. I've watched the demonstration videos where Microsoft has implemented "hot corners" etc, but the Metro interface is really for consuming, not producing.

It's not clear what direction Microsoft wants to go in. Apple is introducing iOS features to the Mac slowly, but they are keeping it as a desktop operating system rather than a new OS concept which makes producing and multitasking not so effective.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:37 AM   #4
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One has to wonder what Microsoft is thinking when the Windows 8 Metro interface is based on/looks almost exactly like the Windows Phone 7.5 interface....and we all know how successful Windows Phone has been for Microsoft.

Like MrAndy, I used to love Windows (even beta tested Win95). But given the hardware inconsistancies between manufacturers, and related driver issues (along with virus and hacking exposures with Windows), I have no regrets about switching to the Mac.

Microsoft seems to lack the ability to find out what their customers really want from them.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 08:41 AM   #5
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OSX = ease users into and IOS intergration

MS = BOOM. What the what!?
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 09:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bending Pixels View Post
One has to wonder what Microsoft is thinking when the Windows 8 Metro interface is based on/looks almost exactly like the Windows Phone 7.5 interface....and we all know how successful Windows Phone has been for Microsoft.
Windows Phone 7.x is based on the Metro design language, and so is Windows 8. Not the other way round.

If you've used a Windows Phone device, you'll know that it (Metro) is actually better in some ways than iOS. The perceived failure is due to multiple issues, not forgetting the lack of applications available for the platform. In fact, my friend was having issues with battery life with his Windows Phone, and though he is an Apple fan, that was the only thing stopping him switching over completely to Windows Phone.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 09:45 AM   #7
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I don't like the iOS stuff in OS X and downgraded back to Snow Leopard when Lion was released. I doubt that I'll like Mountain Lion much, although I do think that it'll be like what Lion should have been like. I do however think iOS is great for tablets and phones.

Trying out Windows 8 today. I'll see if Microsoft have taken the right approach to making a tablet/PC hybrid OS.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 09:49 AM   #8
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Also, one thing I forgot to mention that I noticed on the demo videos of Windows 8 - NONE of them showed a mouse pointer at all. Only touch. It's very clear the direction MS is going - making Windows 8 a tablet OS while abandoning the desktop (but leaving it there for this release).

On the other hand, OSX Mountain Lion's demo on Apple's website does show a mouse pointer in action in the demo video! iOS doesn't have a mouse pointer
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 10:20 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I don't like the iOS stuff in OS X and downgraded back to Snow Leopard when Lion was released. I doubt that I'll like Mountain Lion much, although I do think that it'll be like what Lion should have been like. I do however think iOS is great for tablets and phones.

Trying out Windows 8 today. I'll see if Microsoft have taken the right approach to making a tablet/PC hybrid OS.
OS X is far from a tablet/PC hybrid OS. Which of the iOS inspired features were so disruptive for you that you switched back to Snow Leopard?

Apple is taking what works in iOS, optimizing their functionality for a desktop environment, and bringing them to OS X. They are not touch apps ported over to the desktop. I just don't see how this is a bad thing. This is a far cry from what MS is doing with Windows 8 where they are shoehorning a "desktop" into a tablet OS and delivering it on all platforms. No one bought Windows Phone 7 yet they decided to bring that UI to their entire product line. Smart.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 10:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Blipp View Post
Apple is taking what works in iOS, optimizing their functionality for a desktop environment, and bringing them to OS X. They are not touch apps ported over to the desktop. I just don't see how this is a bad thing.
Fully agree. Perhaps people are used to convoluted, complicated and less functional ways of things syncing between devices. Change is not good.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
OSX = ease users into and IOS intergration

MS = BOOM. What the what!?
Fully agree, my mother will not have a clue how to do several things now on Windows 8, she's just learnt the start menu! haha

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Old Mar 1, 2012, 12:25 PM   #12
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Mountain Lion and Windows 8 are nothing alike right now. There was more in common with Windows 7 & Lion.

Mountain Lion has features of iOS but it's still primarily used as a desktop system. The notification center is a welcome change because what have we been using before? Growl to notify us but nothing to see a list of our past notifications that we've missed. Launchpad, it's still pretty similar to Lion right now. Messages, just combines iMessage from iOS with the desktop interface, something the Androids have already. However, even with those features listed, it's still a desktop OS.

Windows 8 is basically an extended version of Windows Phone. It's primary usage is the Metro UI as seen on Windows Phone. It took me 5 minutes to figure out where the original control panel is. Windows 8 seems to be moving users over to a more touch based interface, like iOS but still have a desktop retainability in the background. This is actually a good advantage for most consumers who don't care how their system is used, just as long as they can surf the net, write e-mails, listen to music and watch a few videos. However for a power user, it's a nightmare trying to find where everything is.

Sooner or later, OS X will be integrated in with iOS but I still believe that Apple would keep a desktop platform the primary choice of UI compared to Microsoft where they're pushing the Metro/Touch UI as primary.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 12:38 PM   #13
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Windows 8 looks interesting. Essentially they get rid of the desktop and the file system as integral parts of the user interaction, and move them to the background. I think this could work for the consumer market, and might help windows phone sales.

MS dared to be much more innovative than Apple here. Maybe it will end up being a disaster, like Vista, but it might also work. In comparison, Apple chose a safe path here... somehow not surprising, since Apple now can be considered as market leader for mobile OS, although MS of course is still huge on laptops...
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 12:42 PM   #14
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If you've used a Windows Phone device, you'll know that it (Metro) is actually better in some ways than iOS.
Just because it may be better then iOS as a mobile OS, doesn't translate into it being a better desktop OS.

I played with the developer preview, and I have the consumer preview ready to install once I get home from work. I have some serious concerns about the Metro UI, but I'll wait to see how this shakes out.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 01:00 PM   #15
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I really like using Windows 7. On my MP Photoshop CS5, Excel and Word operate faster and better than on Lion. Then there is Quicken which just can't seem to make it to Mac. W7 strikes me as the better OS but of course it's lacking in the wealth of interconnected, fantastic apps that are available on Mac.

Having used Windows 8 Developers Preview for awhile I installed the Consumer Preview last night on my late 2009 mini 2.6C2D. The installation from the ISO image burned to a DVD was flawless. I haven't even installed the bootcamp drivers yet.

It looks like Microsoft, trying to be all Apple-like and "innovative", has really screwed up Windows 8. Metro looks like crap on a 24in display. The colors are horrible, the icons are really ugly.

Without the traditional Start menu the desktop is not so easy to use. I had to keep going back and forth between desktop and Metro just to perform formerly simple tasks. If that's the best that Microsoft can do I'll take Lion over Windows 8 in a heartbeat.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Blipp View Post
OS X is far from a tablet/PC hybrid OS. Which of the iOS inspired features were so disruptive for you that you switched back to Snow Leopard?
Lack of decent spaces/expose, useless features such as launchpad and gestures (I know I don't have to use them but a lot of emphasis is put on them), autosave (can't stand it), and the fact that it was buggy and seemed inconsistent. Mountain Lion seems to introduce a lot of consistency again, but I still don't like it. Hate on me all you want, I don't like it.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:29 PM   #17
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Lack of decent spaces/expose, useless features such as launchpad and gestures (I know I don't have to use them but a lot of emphasis is put on them), autosave (can't stand it), and the fact that it was buggy and seemed inconsistent. Mountain Lion seems to introduce a lot of consistency again, but I still don't like it. Hate on me all you want, I don't like it.
How are gestures a useless part of Lion? I think they are an integral part of the OS. The gestures are one of the best parts IMO.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:47 PM   #18
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How are gestures a useless part of Lion? I think they are an integral part of the OS. The gestures are one of the best parts IMO.
As I said. I don't like it. Try and justify it to me all you want, I don't like it. You obviously do and I'm pleased for you that you are happy with the way OS X is going. I don't like it and I'm not pleased with the way OS X is going, no matter how much you downvote my posts or try and make my opinions out to be flawed.

That is why I'm hoping Windows 8 will be good.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:57 PM   #19
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As I said. I don't like it. Try and justify it to me all you want, I don't like it. You obviously do and I'm pleased for you that you are happy with the way OS X is going. I don't like it and I'm not pleased with the way OS X is going, no matter how much you downvote my posts or try and make my opinions out to be flawed.

That is why I'm hoping Windows 8 will be good.
I was asking why you don't like it; I obviously realize that you don't. I never said that I was pleased with the way OS X is going. Pretty much all of the features being put into it these days are for iOS integration. As someone who has no iOS devices, I don't see much of anything in it for me. However, I don't see how multitouch gestures say anything.

If you think Lion is bad, then I can't see you liking Windows 8. I think the Metro UI is awful and the tablet integration is worse than with Apple.

Oh, and I am not trying to make out your opinions to be flawed. Nor did I downvote your post. I think the whole rating system is silly. I just wanted to know why you don't like it. Swiping between spaces, the two finger pinch, move windows with three fingers, etc. I am honestly just trying to see what you dislike about these things. That's it.

Last edited by Brad9893; Mar 1, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 05:58 PM   #20
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Microsoft seems to lack the ability to find out what their customers really want from them.
To be fair, if Henry Ford had listened to his customers we'd all be driving horses.

Personally, I really like Windows 8. The whole split screen paradigm is amazing.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:11 PM   #21
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I just wanted to know why you don't like it. Swiping between spaces, the two finger pinch, move windows with three fingers, etc. I am honestly just trying to see what you dislike about these things. That's it.
I'm more of a keyboard shortcuts sorta guy. Podgy fingers result in gestures failing or acting wrongly. Also activating them during what I'd call normal trackpad usage.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:16 PM   #22
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I installed Win 8 in Parallels and I can't get it to register mouse clicks. The curser moves around and when it first boots, for a split second I can see a tile highlight and then lose focus.

Keyboard works and with the trackpad I can zoom in and out but no clicks.

I've searched Google but no help yet. If any of you who installed it have any suggestions I'm all ears.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 06:34 PM   #23
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I'm more of a keyboard shortcuts sorta guy. Podgy fingers result in gestures failing or acting wrongly. Also activating them during what I'd call normal trackpad usage.
At least you can turn the gestures off if you really don't like them. It's not like Launchpad which you can't turn off. You don't have to use it either, but everytime you download a MAS app it pops up which can get annoying.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 07:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I installed Win 8 in Parallels and I can't get it to register mouse clicks. The curser moves around and when it first boots, for a split second I can see a tile highlight and then lose focus.

Keyboard works and with the trackpad I can zoom in and out but no clicks.

I've searched Google but no help yet. If any of you who installed it have any suggestions I'm all ears.
It's an issue with Parallels' Tools. You have to wait until they update the Parallels' Tools before it'll work properly.
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Old Mar 1, 2012, 07:33 PM   #25
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Those of you using Win8 on a mac... do any of the trackpad gestures work? Does the trackpad "swiping" work in Metro or do you need to grab the scrollbar?
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