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Old Mar 8, 2012, 03:53 PM   #26
Bozley0621
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What does "remux" mean?

Ever since the announcement of 1080p, I'm read about using Subler to remux. What does this mean?
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 04:06 PM   #27
chiefpavvy
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Originally Posted by Bozley0621 View Post
Ever since the announcement of 1080p, I'm read about using Subler to remux. What does this mean?
It means taking, say, a 1080P MKV file, and simply 'remuxing' the video and audio to an M4V file for Apple TV. Remuxing takes just a few minutes as no transcoding of the video or audio is done - just put in a new container.

It is preferable as re-encoding the MKV file takes hours.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 04:20 PM   #28
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Mike, welcome to the forums.

You do realize that there is a handbrake developer commenting within this very thread? Unless something has changed with the latest release of Handbrake (last few days), they've recommended not using 2-pass and average bit rate and instead just sliding the constant quality slider a few points one way or the other if one wants max quality vs. smaller file size. Why? https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/ConstantQuality and https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/AvgBitrateAndTargetSize

It's great if that method works for you and you're happy with it. You might try their suggestion though and see what that gets you. I've done it both ways myself and I like the Constant Quality output & file sizes better (all things considered). The big key is does one care more about file size or max picture quality. I'm in the latter camp.
Constant quality trumps average bitrate everytime. Trust me ... you aren't smarter than the encoder on what it takes to get a certain visual quality.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 04:24 PM   #29
chiefpavvy
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I used to do the 2-pass 2500kbps avg bitrate. Very good looking rips. But I've been using CQ 19.25 for the same rips now for over a year and get similar results quality-wise but MUCH smaller file sizes. It really is impressive. I agree, go with CQ.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 05:01 PM   #30
kagharaht
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Originally Posted by chiefpavvy View Post
It means taking, say, a 1080P MKV file, and simply 'remuxing' the video and audio to an M4V file for Apple TV. Remuxing takes just a few minutes as no transcoding of the video or audio is done - just put in a new container.

It is preferable as re-encoding the MKV file takes hours.
Still having trouble with Audio. Subler doesn't let me change DTS to AC3 to make one Stereo and one 6 Channel.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 05:36 PM   #31
Mike Valmike
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Constant quality trumps average bitrate everytime. Trust me ... you aren't smarter than the encoder on what it takes to get a certain visual quality.
Then why does it overbit so badly? As an example, I encoded some 44-minute TV episodes using CQ at default and ended up with 800MB files. Using my settings I get 380MB and the files look and sound identical. It's wasteful. I know I won't get Apple iTMS quality with 320MB for the same file, because they're using Compressor, but I see no reason to use software as good as HB in "not as good" mode. Any thoughts you have on this are welcomed.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 06:37 PM   #32
jaysue
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If you're truly anxious to get started, I'd use the ATV2 preset, then up the resolution under Picture Settings to 1920 x 1080, making sure the "Keep Aspect Ratio" box is checked. That'll get you a 1080p encode, but it may be at a lower quality than the ATV3 can handle.[/QUOTE]

Now I just converted a Blu-ray using the Apple TV 2 preset and changed the Animorphic to custom, checked the keep ratio box and changed the height to 1080 and width to 1280 and used an average bit rate of 3900 and it seemed to play fine, choppy in iTunes though, but smooth on the Apple TV, now can I up the width to 1920? is there any other settings i'm missing? constant quality maybe? and would it be really better than the 720 encode?
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:27 PM   #33
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by Mike Valmike View Post
Then why does it overbit so badly? As an example, I encoded some 44-minute TV episodes using CQ at default and ended up with 800MB files. Using my settings I get 380MB and the files look and sound identical. It's wasteful. I know I won't get Apple iTMS quality with 320MB for the same file, because they're using Compressor, but I see no reason to use software as good as HB in "not as good" mode. Any thoughts you have on this are welcomed.
Maybe you cannot see a difference but i suggest there is. Drop the quality level (rf) I am guessing you wouldn't see the difference either. Visual perception is very hard to determine, If you want to try to *guess* on the appropriate bitrate for a given file .. then do so.

----------

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Originally Posted by kagharaht View Post
Still having trouble with Audio. Subler doesn't let me change DTS to AC3 to make one Stereo and one 6 Channel.
Of course. Subler remuxes only ( well, not totally true as it can re encode ac3 to aac ). It has no capability to encode dts to ac3. for that you need hb.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Valmike View Post
I know I won't get Apple iTMS quality with 320MB for the same file, because they're using Compressor ...
No, they aren't. The main reason you will never achieve the level of compression they get at a given quality level is the fact that they are not using a crappy blu ray source (which is already compressed). The source they use are masters. Basically if you could get your hands on one and run it through hb ... even on an i7 it would make the progress bar probably go backwards. Fact is they use a much better source than you can get your hands on.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:31 PM   #34
WebHead
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Constant quality trumps average bitrate everytime. Trust me ... you aren't smarter than the encoder on what it takes to get a certain visual quality.
So for a non-technical type like me, am I best to just stick with the presets like I've been doing?
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:36 PM   #35
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Did they say if the new apple tv does 24p? Aren't bluray encodes all jerky (especially on a panning scene) if they display at the wrong frame rate?
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:45 PM   #36
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by WebHead View Post
So for a non-technical type like me, am I best to just stick with the presets like I've been doing?
well, we think so ... you could adjust the quality level up or down a point or two (rf value) but in general its set at 20 because across many varieties of sources we have found it provides a nice balance of visually perceptive quality at a decent encode speed and bitrate. That said play with it if you like (I tend to use 19 just because I like it a bit more though cannot really say that I can discern a big difference on my 50" panny.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Originally Posted by heliocentric View Post
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Did they say if the new apple tv does 24p? Aren't bluray encodes all jerky (especially on a panning scene) if they display at the wrong frame rate?
iirc specs say 1080p30 so 1080p at 30 fps. Again, apples published specs are notorious for being vague and typically low as to what the device can actually do. Hands on is the *only* way we will really know.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:46 PM   #37
chiefpavvy
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Yep! Ain't that the truth

I have a lot of 720P HD encodes done around RF 17 or RF 18 just because I wanted a bit more quality and didn't care so much about the larger file sizes. But I've done several at 19 and 20 and I honestly can't say I can "see" any terrific difference. I think the presets are pretty darn good.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 07:55 PM   #38
WebHead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
well, we think so ... you could adjust the quality level up or down a point or two (rf value) but in general its set at 20 because across many varieties of sources we have found it provides a nice balance of visually perceptive quality at a decent encode speed and bitrate. That said play with it if you like (I tend to use 19 just because I like it a bit more though cannot really say that I can discern a big difference on my 50" panny.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Thanks for that, and keep up the great work!

EDIT: Sorry, one more thing ... is a major new preset like this enough to prompt a new "official" release of HandBrake, or will you stick with the annual release schedule? Are the nightlies generally stable enough to rely on?
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 08:09 PM   #39
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by WebHead View Post
Thanks for that, and keep up the great work!

EDIT: Sorry, one more thing ... is a major new preset like this enough to prompt a new "official" release of HandBrake, or will you stick with the annual release schedule? Are the nightlies generally stable enough to rely on?
Not sure. we talked about turning around a quick release with a new preset. But there are other considerations....

yes, nightlies are stable enough that I use them all of the time ... that said .. its a nightly and could contain bugs etc. For now Go with nightlies once they are back and running. As for right now 0.9.6 is as new as anything we have for mac.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 08:10 PM   #40
rick98761
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I currently store all my bluray movies on my home server in mkv format. I would like to use apple tv 3 on the televisions in my house. The only thing I am wondering about is, is it possible to keep the audio loseless? I don't really care what format it is held in, but I would like to retain all quality.
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Old Mar 8, 2012, 08:17 PM   #41
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by rick98761 View Post
I currently store all my bluray movies on my home server in mkv format. I would like to use apple tv 3 on the televisions in my house. The only thing I am wondering about is, is it possible to keep the audio loseless? I don't really care what format it is held in, but I would like to retain all quality.
well ,your audio is not *lossless* but i know what you mean, you want to pass thru the audio from your source. if the audio is ac3 then you can just pass it through with something like hb. If its dts ... you would have to encode it to ac3 afaik. Again that is assuming the atv 3 has only ac3 passthru. Again ... no one has one yet so we don't know but I would be very surprised if the atv 3 allowed dts in a mp4.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 12:41 AM   #42
kagharaht
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Maybe you cannot see a difference but i suggest there is. Drop the quality level (rf) I am guessing you wouldn't see the difference either. Visual perception is very hard to determine, If you want to try to *guess* on the appropriate bitrate for a given file .. then do so.

----------



Of course. Subler remuxes only ( well, not totally true as it can re encode ac3 to aac ). It has no capability to encode dts to ac3. for that you need hb.

----------



No, they aren't. The main reason you will never achieve the level of compression they get at a given quality level is the fact that they are not using a crappy blu ray source (which is already compressed). The source they use are masters. Basically if you could get your hands on one and run it through hb ... even on an i7 it would make the progress bar probably go backwards. Fact is they use a much better source than you can get your hands on.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 06:44 AM   #43
WebHead
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In light of this Apple Insider article on Apple's new 1080p compression technique, I was wondering if dynaflash could explain the relative merits of HandBrake vs iTunes' compression algorithms?
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 08:37 AM   #44
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by WebHead View Post
In light of this Apple Insider article on Apple's new 1080p compression technique, I was wondering if dynaflash could explain the relative merits of HandBrake vs iTunes' compression algorithms?
Not really sure what you are asking.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 09:06 AM   #45
Eimoaotl
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Great info

This thread has been very helpful. I currently run Windows Media Center as my entertainment hub, but I am thinking of switching to iTunes and ATV3 instead. I am tired of troubleshooting it and want something that will just work for my wife and five little kids. She loves her iPad and my kids love their iPod touches so I figure they will love ATV as well. They will use it to watch ripped movies, look at family photos, listen to music, and watch recorded OTA tv (will need to get eyeTV now to get the recorded tv for them). I don't like my kids handling our blu-rays, but I will continue to use them as my primary movie viewing medium.

What do you all use for process to rip blu-ray to play on ATV? Either Mac or Windows (currently dont have a mac but will buy one to run eyeTV so they can have recorded TV). My current process for WMC is to decrypt with AnyDVD HD, then use BDinfo to find the main movie playlist with chapters, then use TSMuxer to create a BD folder on my hard drive and then use TMT5 from Arcsoft to play the file in WMC (retains all video quality and passes through DTS MA to my 7.1 receiver and projector (106").

Is handbrake better on Windows or Mac? What is the best process to turn my blu-rays into files that "just work" on ATV? Use MakeMKV on the blu-ray then handbrake using ATV preset once the ATV3 preset is available? I'm not willing to give up my blu-ray sound and picture, so the answer for me is not the easiest solution of all - buy everything on iTunes
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 09:08 AM   #46
Blaquespell
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Not really sure what you are asking.
I think he's talking about the advanced features their specs now display on the Apple TV page, High profile vs. Main profile on the 2nd generation Apple TV and the file size comparison of older 720p movies vs. the newer 1080p ones in the iTunes store.

For the record though, Handbrake has had the ability to use more advanced encoding all along. CABAC and 8x8 Transform in the Apple TV 2 preset enable High profile already. Apple is typically very conservative with their specs when it comes to the Apple TV. I've been throwing High@L4.1 content at it for a year now using Handbrake. Apple is basically playing catch up at this point.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 09:31 AM   #47
rayward
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Now I just converted a Blu-ray using the Apple TV 2 preset and changed the Animorphic to custom, checked the keep ratio box and changed the height to 1080 and width to 1280 and used an average bit rate of 3900 and it seemed to play fine, choppy in iTunes though, but smooth on the Apple TV, now can I up the width to 1920? is there any other settings i'm missing? constant quality maybe? and would it be really better than the 720 encode?
1280 is the width for a 16:9 ratio 720 height file. The equivalent width for a 1080 height file is 1920. If you're going to do it this way, then, yes, set anamorphic to "Custom", check the "Keep Aspect Ratio" box but then set the width x height to be 1920 x 1080. Constant quality is probably better than setting a target average bitrate.

Seriously, though, it's got to be better to wait for a week or two until the techies at HB get the ATV3 preset sorted out.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 09:42 AM   #48
rayward
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Originally Posted by Eimoaotl View Post
This thread has been very helpful. I currently run Windows Media Center as my entertainment hub, but I am thinking of switching to iTunes and ATV3 instead. I am tired of troubleshooting it and want something that will just work for my wife and five little kids. She loves her iPad and my kids love their iPod touches so I figure they will love ATV as well. They will use it to watch ripped movies, look at family photos, listen to music, and watch recorded OTA tv (will need to get eyeTV now to get the recorded tv for them). I don't like my kids handling our blu-rays, but I will continue to use them as my primary movie viewing medium.

What do you all use for process to rip blu-ray to play on ATV? Either Mac or Windows (currently dont have a mac but will buy one to run eyeTV so they can have recorded TV). My current process for WMC is to decrypt with AnyDVD HD, then use BDinfo to find the main movie playlist with chapters, then use TSMuxer to create a BD folder on my hard drive and then use TMT5 from Arcsoft to play the file in WMC (retains all video quality and passes through DTS MA to my 7.1 receiver and projector (106").

Is handbrake better on Windows or Mac? What is the best process to turn my blu-rays into files that "just work" on ATV? Use MakeMKV on the blu-ray then handbrake using ATV preset once the ATV3 preset is available? I'm not willing to give up my blu-ray sound and picture, so the answer for me is not the easiest solution of all - buy everything on iTunes
I'm on a Mac, and I use MakeMKV to rip my BDs. On either Mac or PC, once the movie is ripped, the process is the same: transcode with HandBrake, add metadata and copy to iTunes. The only time it gets more complicated than that is when you have forced subs that aren't burned in to the original video. There's plenty of threads in here about how to navigate that issue.

Currently, I create two versions of movies: a 720p file for my ATV1s and 544p file for my iPhone. Once I get an ATV3, I will need to make 3 versions, adding the 1080p file for the ATV3. Subler, apparently, has updated its app to allow for the third resolution marker to allow iTunes to tell the difference. I do have the option to nix the 720p version altogether and just feed the ATV1s the 544p version, but I will make that call once I see how the file sizes work out.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 10:16 AM   #49
BlackMangoTree
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SInce the last update to the AppleTV2 it can now play back 1080p 25mb encoded from a bluray using the "High Profile"preset in Handbrake. SO i assume the AppleTV3 can do this too.
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Old Mar 9, 2012, 10:17 AM   #50
kagharaht
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Originally Posted by rayward View Post
Currently, I create two versions of movies: a 720p file for my ATV1s and 544p file for my iPhone. Once I get an ATV3, I will need to make 3 versions, adding the 1080p file for the ATV3. Subler, apparently, has updated its app to allow for the third resolution marker to allow iTunes to tell the difference. I do have the option to nix the 720p version altogether and just feed the ATV1s the 544p version, but I will make that call once I see how the file sizes work out.
I think I've worked out the details on converting. Now the question on how many version for all these devices. I currently have ATV2, iPad2 and iPhone4. No iPS. I would rather have just one file for all these devices.

Any thoughts with this workflow? I will use ATV2 Preset, CQ19 or 18 and 1080p for all three devices. Also I stream to ATV2 with Airport Extreme 5th with 5ghz strictly used for ATV2.
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