Mac Pro vs. Hackintosh

[GermanyChris]

Originally Posted by goMac

And Xeons still have the dual CPU advantage.

Doesn't matter how fast your single CPU is. Two of that CPU is faster.

If you don't need the speed of dual CPUs, the Mac Pro isn't a great deal. But if you need as much speed as you can get? Hackintoshes are meh.

You can't build a dual CPU Hackintosh?

[Tutor]

Originally Posted by goMac

And Xeons still have the dual CPU advantage.

Doesn't matter how fast your single CPU is. Two of that CPU is faster.

Correct, if they are of the same tic or toc.

Originally Posted by goMac

If you don't need the speed of dual CPUs, the Mac Pro isn't a great deal.

Correct again.

Originally Posted by goMac

But if you need as much speed as you can get? Hackintoshes are meh.

Are you sure about this? Might someone disagree?

Could it not be done now with this [ http://www.evga.com/products/moreInf...herboards&sw=5 ]
(1) using dual quad Xeon 5520s ($373 each), 5530s ($530 each), 5540s ($744 each), 5550s ($858 each), 5560s ($1072 each), 5570s ($1286 each), 5580s ($1500 each), 5590s ($1600 each), or
(2) using dual hex Xeon 5638s ($958 each), 5640s ($996 each), 5645s ($958 each), 5650s ($996 each), 5660s ($1219 each), 5670s ($1440 each), 5675s ($1440 each), 5680s ($1663 each), 5690s ($1663 each) or any of the other 5500s and 5600 Xeons?

Could it not be done now with this [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131814 ]
or this [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131817 ]
{or within 3 weeks with this [ http://www.evga.com/products/moreInf...herboards&sw=5 ]}
using dual 8-core Xeon Sandy Bridge E5s currently ranging in price from $1100 to $2039 each?

Just food for thought.

Nehalem and Westmere prices per [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem...ture)#Westmere ]. E-wiz [ http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?c...ame=Intel-Xeon ] prices generally are lower. Sandy Bridge E5 prices per [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=LGA%202011 ].

[braindeadfool]

Originally Posted by Tutor

Correct, if they are of the same tic or toc.



Correct again.



Are you sure about this? Might someone disagree?

Could it not be done now with this [ http://www.evga.com/products/moreInf...herboards&sw=5 ]
(1) using dual quad Xeon 5520s ($373 each), 5530s ($530 each), 5540s ($744 each), 5550s ($858 each), 5560s ($1072 each), 5570s ($1286 each), 5580s ($1500 each), 5590s ($1600 each), or
(2) using dual hex Xeon 5638s ($958 each), 5640s ($996 each), 5645s ($958 each), 5650s ($996 each), 5560s ($1219 each), 5670s ($1440 each), 5675s ($1440 each), 5680s ($1663 each), 5690s ($1663 each) or any of the other 5500s and 5600 Xeons?

Could it not be done now with this [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131814 ]
or this [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131817 ]
{or within 3 weeks with this [ http://www.evga.com/products/moreInf...herboards&sw=5 ]}
using dual 8-core Xeon Sandy Bridge E5s currently ranging in price from $1100 to $2039 each?

Just food for thought.

Nehalem and Westmere prices per [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem...ture)#Westmere ]. E-wiz [ http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?c...ame=Intel-Xeon ] prices generally are lower. Sandy Bridge E5 prices per [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=LGA%202011 ].

Nope it can't be done, and certainly not with 2 x 5690s http://www.overclock.net/t/1238540/b...#post_16889043

And they can't be watercooled so that CPU idles at 28 degrees Celsius in a 24 Celsius room...

[Tutor]

Originally Posted by braindeadfool

Nope it can't be done, and certainly not with 2 x 5690s http://www.overclock.net/t/1238540/b...#post_16889043

And they can't be watercooled so that CPU idles at 28 degrees Celsius in a 24 Celsius room...

And I'm sure that you can't clock those 5690's to yield greater performance than the factory setting by following post #96 at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...1333421&page=4 or by using another method.

[dagomike]

Originally Posted by goMac

And Xeons still have the dual CPU advantage.

Doesn't matter how fast your single CPU is. Two of that CPU is faster.

If you don't need the speed of dual CPUs, the Mac Pro isn't a great deal. But if you need as much speed as you can get? Hackintoshes are meh.

Depends how you look at it. If you want speed any any cost, then you'll need Xeons, which means Mac Pro. You've got money to burn and/or very high billable hours.

Price/performance is more practical analysis, however. You'll be able to upgrade your hackintosh more frequently for less. In 3 years, your hackintosh will likely meet or exceed the fastest Mac Pro and do so for probably $5K less.

I have a 2009 Mac Pro, and it's only about 25% faster than the 2011 iMac w/ SB i7/3.4 GHz. If I had a Hackintosh back then, I'd save a lot of money and in the process not be much slower at this point. Plus, I could upgrade to an Ivy Bridge i7 for not a whole lot.

Plus, you can always cluster if speed really is the most important thing.

[xgman]

I've built more high end, over clocked, custom PC's than I can count and got sick of the endless tinkering so I went to Apple. I have absolutely zero interest in returning to a build your own system.

[Wild-Bill]

Originally Posted by xgman

I've built more high end, over clocked, custom PC's than I can count and got sick of the endless tinkering so I went to Apple. I have absolutely zero interest in returning to a build your own system.

I cannot even begin to estimate how much money I blew when I was fully involved in custom PC's. Even charging my buddies to build their systems didn't come close to me breaking even on all the crap I bought for myself. It was almost like an addiction. Swap boards, then swap CPU's, then "OMG I totally need that 1000 watt PSU b/c it's SLEEVED". Not to mention all the $$$$ blown on water cooling components,cases, etc.... Although I will say that I stopped looking for "the next" case when Coolermaster outed the original Stacker case. So much room, so flexible, etc....

But I digress. I picked up my Mac Pro in 2008 and haven't built a system since. However, with the fate of the Mac Pro uncertain, not to mention what type of Apple tax would accompany it if it were to appear sometime soon, I've gotta say..... the thought of putting together a dual hex-core Sandybridge Xeon system does have me intrigued..............

[mslide]

Originally Posted by xgman

I've built more high end, over clocked, custom PC's than I can count and got sick of the endless tinkering so I went to Apple. I have absolutely zero interest in returning to a build your own system.

You imply that building a PC, with performance similar to that of a Mac Pro, means endless tinkering. It doesn't. All you have to do is pick your components right the first time, build it, install whatever OS and you're done (and not bother with overclicking, water cooling, etc).

[throAU]

Originally Posted by mslide

You imply that building a PC, with performance similar to that of a Mac Pro, means endless tinkering. It doesn't. All you have to do is pick your components right the first time, build it, install whatever OS and you're done (and not bother with overclicking, water cooling, etc).

Sure - with the caveat that every single unexplained application or operating system crash you get from that point may or may not be due to some strange combination-of-hardware factor that you have in your PC. And you may never know.

That say, bios version X doesn't like video card driver Y. Or sound card driver A doesn't like PCI-e slot B on motherboard Z.

Been there, done that, have both built and dealt with/fixed stable and unstable machines made from components since 1989.

If you value your time at zero (or cheap), go for it. If your time is worth a significant hourly rate, paying apple (or dell, HP, etc) to supply and support a known-good combination of hardware and software is worth it. Personally, I do this sort of **** at work, at home I value my limited free time at several hundred dollars per hour.

"Picking your components right the first time" means spending a lot of time keeping up to date with hardware developments, poring over spec-sheets and other crap before buying. Or - placing your trust in a few nerds who hang out on forums that what they call stable (possibly: it runs quake X real fast!), and what you call stable (i can leave it rendering for 24 hrs at a time or whatever) are the same thing.

Most people in the real world (who aren't PC repair technicians, or hardware nerds) don't care what individual components are in the box. If they are say, a network engineer, graphic artist, musician, etc they are less likely to be wasting hours per week to stay current with hardware and software trends. It is dead, wasted time to them. it is time they could be spending at the pub, working on a side project of their own, or whatever. They buy a machine to solve problem X and just want it to work. And if it doesn't work, give it to someone else to fix.

[braindeadfool]

Originally Posted by throAU

Sure - with the caveat that every single unexplained application or operating system crash you get from that point may or may not be due to some strange combination-of-hardware factor that you have in your PC. And you may never know.

That say, bios version X doesn't like video card driver Y. Or sound card driver A doesn't like PCI-e slot B on motherboard Z.

Been there, done that, have bother built and dealt with stable and unstable machines made from components since 1989.

If you value your time at zero (or cheap), go for it. If your time is worth a significant hourly rate, paying apple (or dell, HP, etc) to supply and support a known-good combination of hardware and software is worth it.

LOL I'll show you my hourly rate if you show me yours. It's taken me maybe 16-18 hours to put my build together (2 Xeon 5690s, 24 GB RAM, 11 hard drives, 2 SSD drives, GTX 580 video card, and water cooled). In the process I've learned a lot, had fun, and made some great new acquaintances. I've got a machine that appears to be rock solid stable (before attempting to clock it) which Apple can not deliver. And this machine cost less than the best current retro Apple offering. So yeah, I could have worked those 16-18 hours (and yes, I turn away work), but I wouldn't necessarily be in a better place.

[throAU]

Good for you. You're obviously a hardware/pc tech person, and not one of the graphic artists or other professions I was talking about.

And by referring to my off-time at several hundred per hour, I value my free time at a lot higher than my hourly rate, because it is a lot more limited.

Also:

You could have taken those 18-19 hours and just bought a HP or Dell workstation of similar spec. I'm not purely arguing against hackintoshing here - I'm arguing against build your own box. Again, if you're a tech, or are willing to do the work for "free" (including after build-support), go for it.

Most aren't.

[braindeadfool]

Originally Posted by throAU

Good for you. You're obviously a hardware/pc tech person, and not one of the graphic artists or other professions I was talking about.

And by referring to my off-time at several hundred per hour, I value my free time at a lot higher than my hourly rate, because it is a lot more limited.

Well no, I am one of those other professions. I'm just not a sheep. And I also value my free time highly, as do most people.

[itsamacthing]

Originally Posted by throAU

List of peripherals pro users are missing out on due to lack of USB3 please? Oh wow i can get a fast hard drive, that is slower than ESATA or fibre channel anyway...

Thats not my point, obviously there are a lot of fast storage solutions out there, but for those of us on the side line waiting to buy, we are not going to drop our money on a Mac Pro unless it is loaded with future proof technology. We may have need to use a cheap USB3 external to move and travel with large files...show me a better USB2 or thunderbolt solution?

----------

Originally Posted by braindeadfool

LOL I'll show you my hourly rate if you show me yours. It's taken me maybe 16-18 hours to put my build together (2 Xeon 5690s, 24 GB RAM, 11 hard drives, 2 SSD drives, GTX 580 video card, and water cooled). In the process I've learned a lot, had fun, and made some great new acquaintances. I've got a machine that appears to be rock solid stable (before attempting to clock it) which Apple can not deliver. And this machine cost less than the best current retro Apple offering. So yeah, I could have worked those 16-18 hours (and yes, I turn away work), but I wouldn't necessarily be in a better place.

Good for you man, build your own! I had the same experiences back in the day when I was rolling heavy in the Hackintosh community. Apple CAN NOT DELIVER a desktop computer like they used to. It's just a fact that all of us can clearly see. Pretty pathetic that a computer company can't update it's flagship desktop computer. Go Hackintosh go!

[itsamacthing]

they got beat to market by some guy and a super micro board lol

http://www.tonymacx86.com/viewtopic....lit=supermicro

If any of you are in the market for a Mac Pro, your ship just sailed... holy smokes!

This might be the most insane homebrew of all time!

[itsamacthing]

Originally Posted by Wild-Bill

I cannot even begin to estimate how much money I blew when I was fully involved in custom PC's. Even charging my buddies to build their systems didn't come close to me breaking even on all the crap I bought for myself. It was almost like an addiction. Swap boards, then swap CPU's, then "OMG I totally need that 1000 watt PSU b/c it's SLEEVED". Not to mention all the $$$$ blown on water cooling components,cases, etc.... Although I will say that I stopped looking for "the next" case when Coolermaster outed the original Stacker case. So much room, so flexible, etc....

But I digress. I picked up my Mac Pro in 2008 and haven't built a system since. However, with the fate of the Mac Pro uncertain, not to mention what type of Apple tax would accompany it if it were to appear sometime soon, I've gotta say..... the thought of putting together a dual hex-core Sandybridge Xeon system does have me intrigued..............

Build it!!! I stopped building my own in 2001... started again in 2009. Having fun, but controlling the urges to constantly upgrade.

[cutterman]

Originally Posted by itsamacthing

they got beat to market by some guy and a super micro board lol

That is awesome.

I just don't get all the rants against home built systems. It is simple enough- define your needs, do a little research, buy quality components, and learn something in the process. If something breaks, which happens with any system, that knowledge will go far to help you fix it on your own.

Look at all the posts on this forum- bad video cards, dead hard drives, defective memory- same stuff goes bad on any computer. Personally I would not consider having to haul my MP to an Apple store and waiting a couple days for them to diagnose and fix a bad memory stick an advantage over just RMA'ing the part myself.

[Umbongo]

Originally Posted by itsamacthing

they got beat to market by some guy and a super micro board lol

http://www.tonymacx86.com/viewtopic....lit=supermicro

If any of you are in the market for a Mac Pro, your ship just sailed... holy smokes!

This might be the most insane homebrew of all time!

Cool that he got it running and the 128GB of memory being recognised is interesting as it was thought the limitation was 96GB within the OS. However let's note that he says his board is so new it has a bunch of issues.

[praine]

Hey all,

Just wanted to chime in with my own experience as a first-time Hackintosh builder (actually the first time I've built any kind of PC myself)

I've been a Mac user for about 15 years (before which I was a Acorn RISC OS user )

I've never really felt comfortable or productive on a Windows PC, although I can use one when I have to.

My last Apple purchase was a Mid-2010 MacBook Pro, which set me back about ¥200,000 (I live in Japan - about $2400 at today's exchange rates)

Unfortunately, my model was one of those affected by the Lion BSOD issue, which is currently filling up over 150 pages over at the Apple support forum.

This issue, along with my MBP's general sluggish performance on FCPX, spurred me on to build my own system, which would hopefully have the power of a Mac Pro without the price tag. I thought briefly about just buying a ready-made PC and using Sony Vegas for my video-editing needs, but I had already invested a considerable amount of time learning to use FCPX, and as I said, I am a long-term Mac user, and switching to Windows wasn't at all an appealing option..

Anyway, with the help of the tonymacx86 forums as well as some other sources, I was able to construct my own system relatively easily, and at a cost of just over ¥150,000. The system has been up and running now for almost a week with no major issues and (touch wood) seems likely to continuing doing so.

Overall, I would recommend building a Hackintosh to long-term Mac users in need of more graphics power than the highest spec iMac offers, but who are not necessarily 'professional' users in the sense that they use their system to earn a living, and cannot therefore easily justify the price of a genuine Mac Pro

[Angelo95210]

Originally Posted by throAU

Been there, done that, have both built and dealt with/fixed stable and unstable machines made from components since 1989.

Hum no. This time is over. Now PC components just work.

Originally Posted by throAU

"Picking your components right the first time" means spending a lot of time keeping up to date with hardware developments, poring over spec-sheets and other crap before buying. Or - placing your trust in a few nerds who hang out on forums that what they call stable (possibly: it runs quake X real fast!), and what you call stable (i can leave it rendering for 24 hrs at a time or whatever) are the same thing.

You just go on TonyX86 and buy what's in their list. 5 mins bar.

At the end my hackintosh is more stable than my 2008 iMac...

[itsamacthing]

Originally Posted by Angelo95210

Hum no. This time is over. Now PC components just work.


You just go on TonyX86 and buy what's in their list. 5 mins bar.

At the end my hackintosh is more stable than my 2008 iMac...

Agree, the only hackintosh days are over. It's easier than ever, as stable as a out of the box mac, and more flexible. Not only that, you can upgrade every year or less. Newest video card, upgrade your CPU or motherboard, pick a case that meets your requirements, etc.

I have and owned 3 Hackintosh, 2 Mac Pro, and endless minis, MBPs, etc. My hackintosh was great... much more fun than the real thing!

Now rumors are out about the release of the iMac in June and then the MBP... nothing about the Mac Pro. NOTHING.... great time to learn to build you own. I know a few photo professionals here in my home town who built hacks via tonyX86 guide and their systems are 100% stable as well.

[Angelo95210]

Yep. We are talking here about 'standard' Hackintoshes. With parts validated by experts. I would never advise anyone to transform an existing PC into a Hackintosh.

Some guys are good at that or just lucky but this is an other story. See this thread with this incredibly powerful hack.

[macmastersam]

if you have the money to build a mac pro-like hackintosh, then surely you should be able to have enough money to buy the real mac pro?

[Umbongo]

Originally Posted by macmastersam

if you have the money to build a mac pro-like hackintosh, then surely you should be able to have enough money to buy the real mac pro?

It isn't just about official vs. non. If it only takes say 15-20 hours to set up a new custom Mac, but you can get much more powerful hardware (see Tutor's Macs and geekbench scores for an example) then the time saved is going to be considerable if really utilize your systems.

[Tutor]

Originally Posted by Umbongo

It isn't just about official vs. non. If it only takes say 15-20 hours to set up a new custom Mac, but you can get much more powerful hardware (see Tutor's Macs and geekbench scores for an example) then the time saved is going to be considerable if really utilize your systems.

Cherish the intangibles life's processes/struggles yield, allowing them to aid your growth. At a former residence in 1987, my neighbor and I built our lawn sprinkler systems. We had fun that day, we bonded, we accomplished things that made us happy and other neighbors who knew what we had accomplished, sought our advise and assistance because they saw what we had done and other benefits flowed and it strengthened all participants. We did it for under $150 each (lines, joints, bonding compound, heads, fancy timers/controls, line excavator, etc included [lowest prices quoted from professionals was over $1500 each]). We did both lawns on a Saturday, spending about 4+3 hours total (the first one took longer than the second one) because we were using what we had learned. $3,000-$300=$2,700; $2,700/7= 385.71; 385.71/2=$192.86/hr. We saved money that day, but earned much more in intangibles. Moreover, for the next 9 years when something went wrong with either of our sprinkler systems (and those were rare occurrences) we would fix it inexpensively and quickly because we were using what we had learned. But we would chose to work on the fix together. Even more importantly, that simple project provided the basis for everyone else on our street and others nearby getting to know one another better. If you are wondering, "What does this account have to do with the topic at hand?" then tweaking probably isn't for you. If you can sense how this life lesson relates to the topic at hand, then read on.

Umbongo, if you just take what you've learned tweaking one system, in under 5-8 hours you can build and tweak, using Geekbench2 as the comparator - http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/...chmarks/#64bit , dual 6-cores (dual 5680s http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/500630 ) that rival the dual Sandy Bridge E5 2690 - http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/599632 and http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/572555.

Also, Cinebench 11.5 scores support these observations. See, e.g., http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=rend&order=desc (which has not been updated in quite a while) and sort by render speed. Those scores for the Radeon 790 RV (HIS 4890) equipped systems running OSX 10.6.5 (and 10.6.2 - my 2009->2010 Mac Pro) were some of my earlier scores. It's now at 24.7 for my WolfPack1.

[Photovore]

I don't think you could run OpenCL on any GPU whatsoever, though ... you'd still need to use Apple-approved cards that they've written drivers for. (If that's important to you; it is to me.)