Dual 3.33 Hex in 2009 MacPro?

kylepro88 · Mar 23, 2012

I've seen this discussed in various places but I just wanted to make sure I have this straight. If you update the EFI firmware on a 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1...you can put in Hex 3.33's in right? The current 12-core MacPro's only go to 2.93Ghz, would it be a problem putting in the higher clocked CPU's?

I'm not planning to do this anytime soon, I just got a great deal on a 2009 8-core 2.93Ghz machine, and in a year+ when those 3.33 Hex's are down in price, if I'm not interested in selling that machine or getting what's latest and greatest, that would be an awesome upgrade to have...giving me something clocked even faster per core then the current top 12-core models.

Thoughts? Am I off-base here?

Tutor · Mar 24, 2012

kylepro88 said:
I've seen this discussed in various places but I just wanted to make sure I have this straight. If you update the EFI firmware on a 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1...you can put in Hex 3.33's in right? The current 12-core MacPro's only go to 2.93Ghz, would it be a problem putting in the higher clocked CPU's?

I'm not planning to do this anytime soon, I just got a great deal on a 2009 8-core 2.93Ghz machine, and in a year+ when those 3.33 Hex's are down in price, if I'm not interested in selling that machine or getting what's latest and greatest, that would be an awesome upgrade to have...giving me something clocked even faster per core then the current top 12-core models.

Thoughts? Am I off-base here?

See post #1 of https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1333421/ . Not off-base at all, assuming its then still in production. Got used 5675's in mine.

jasonvp · Mar 24, 2012

kylepro88 said:
I've seen this discussed in various places but I just wanted to make sure I have this straight. If you update the EFI firmware on a 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1...you can put in Hex 3.33's in right? The current 12-core MacPro's only go to 2.93Ghz, would it be a problem putting in the higher clocked CPU's?

You can do it, but it's not a simple pop and swap like it is with the single processor 4,1s, nor like it is with all of the 5,1s. The reason is that the 4,1 duals use lidless CPUs, and those are incredibly hard to find (if not impossible). The standard covered Xeons won't fit under the heat sinks that Apple uses for the dual-processor 4,1s.

Ways around this? Sure. You can get kits folks have put together to try and make more clearance under the heat sinks. I think it takes longer screws, washers, etc, but I'm not sure (I have a 5,1). You'll have to do some research to figure out what's needed.

jas

Tutor · Mar 24, 2012

jasonvp said:
You can do it, but it's not a simple pop and swap like it is with the single processor 4,1s, nor like it is with all of the 5,1s. The reason is that the 4,1 duals use lidless CPUs, and those are incredibly hard to find (if not impossible). The standard covered Xeons won't fit under the heat sinks that Apple uses for the dual-processor 4,1s.

Ways around this? Sure. You can get kits folks have put together to try and make more clearance under the heat sinks. I think it takes longer screws, washers, etc, but I'm not sure (I have a 5,1). You'll have to do some research to figure out what's needed.

jas

Lidless CPUs were impossible for me to find. The standard covered Xeons will fit under the heat sinks that Apple uses for the dual-processor 4,1s. It will take washers and additional thermal padding. See, e.g., https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/781908/ .

derbothaus · Mar 24, 2012

Or cash in your bonds and get a whole new tray and dual 3.46GHz X5690's.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/MacPro/2010_Xeon_Processor

kylepro88 · Mar 24, 2012

derbothaus said:
Or cash in your bonds and get a whole new tray and dual 3.46GHz X5690's.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/MacPro/2010_Xeon_Processor

Not sure I understand. That's for a 2010 model. Can I swap the tray and use that?

Sounds like the process of upgrading the CPU's myself would be over my head. Not worth breaking the machine or ruining something. I would rather do the tray replacement at some point if I was going to do it at all...if only because it seems much easier to do.

We'll see how I like the speed of the machine. I know it's going to be super fast no matter what, just trying to understand my options since I opted for an older machine instead of getting something new, or waiting for the next gen (if there is one).

ClassObject · Mar 24, 2012

kylepro88 said:
Not sure I understand. That's for a 2010 model. Can I swap the tray and use that?

Sounds like the process of upgrading the CPU's myself would be over my head. Not worth breaking the machine or ruining something. I would rather do the tray replacement at some point if I was going to do it at all...if only because it seems much easier to do.

We'll see how I like the speed of the machine. I know it's going to be super fast no matter what, just trying to understand my options since I opted for an older machine instead of getting something new, or waiting for the next gen (if there is one).

It is really pretty simple. 2.25 mm of washers, clip the fan connector and its done. Not difficult at all. The 3+ ghz procs make the fans buzz.

Inconsequential · Mar 25, 2012

kylepro88 said:
Not sure I understand. That's for a 2010 model. Can I swap the tray and use that?

Sounds like the process of upgrading the CPU's myself would be over my head. Not worth breaking the machine or ruining something. I would rather do the tray replacement at some point if I was going to do it at all...if only because it seems much easier to do.

We'll see how I like the speed of the machine. I know it's going to be super fast no matter what, just trying to understand my options since I opted for an older machine instead of getting something new, or waiting for the next gen (if there is one).

Yes*

You flash your firmware to 5,1, swap the trays over and bobs your uncle.

The parts are electrically, exactly the same.

*I'm pretty sure i've seen this done, but I can't find where now.

derbothaus · Mar 25, 2012

^^^ As stated. The boards are the same in 2009 and 2010 (X58). You just need to flash the firmware to 2010 acceptance. The tray's are the same you just need the 2009 board to recognize the procs. Again, it is a lot of money and yuo should get proper verification before ordering. But tons of users here have flashed their 2009's and put 6-cores in them.

mrh63061 · Mar 25, 2012

Watch out for different SMC

derbothaus said:
^^^ As stated. The boards are the same in 2009 and 2010 (X58). You just need to flash the firmware to 2010 acceptance. The tray's are the same you just need the 2009 board to recognize the procs. Again, it is a lot of money and yuo should get proper verification before ordering. But tons of users here have flashed their 2009's and put 6-cores in them.

The 2009 and 2010 systems are the same with the exceptions of the Firmware in the 2010 models (to get the speed bump from the westmeres) and the SMC firmware, which is newer in the 2010 models, so you just can't pull a board from a 2010 and put into a 2009 without changing the Firmware and SMC Firmware in order for it to run normally otherwise your Fans are going to go full throttle.
This is the SMC for a 2009 Mac Pro 1.39f5 for both the system and processor tray if you check the 2010 Model you'll find a different version.

Tutor · Mar 25, 2012

He doesn't need to buy a 2010 board because he said,"... I just got a great deal on a 2009 8-core 2.93Ghz machine... ." [Emphasis added.] He may prefer to spend the extra money to by a new board because he's interest in upgrading that machine to hex's and doesn't want to do it himself. However, most likely, he may still have to install the CPUs himself unless he wants to spend even more money. That machine already has two 2.93 GHz (X5570) Quad-core Intel Xeon "Gainstown" processors, so he'll already have a dual cpu socket tray. Furthermore, that the EFI fix will leave his system with Mac Pro 2009 SMC firmware shouldn't cause a problem. I've upgraded, and am using to compose this response, a modified refurb bottom of the line (dual 2.26 GHz) Mac Pro 2009 that I upgraded to dual hex's using an EFI hack and it still has the Mac Pro 2009 SMC firmware and the fans are not running at full throttle. In fact, they ran just the same as before and that was the problem because dual hex's need more cooling. Now they're completely under control, using smcFanControl.

However, at this point in time, I question the wisdom of now following my path (buying a used 2009 machine to do the upgrade yourself) or his preferred path (buying a 2009 machine now with the intention to upgrade it in the future thru pre-assembly) because when all is said and done, he may as well wait for Sandy Bridge Xeon Macs, for the costs he'll have spent beginning yesteryear's route today will must likely exceed the costs of the brand new machines we hope will appear in a few months and throughly outperform the 2009-2010 machines. An end of the Mac Pro line announcement from Apple would/could change this assessment.

derbothaus · Mar 25, 2012

mrh63061 said:
The 2009 and 2010 systems are the same with the exceptions of the Firmware in the 2010 models (to get the speed bump from the westmeres) and the SMC firmware, which is newer in the 2010 models, so you just can't pull a board from a 2010 and put into a 2009 without changing the Firmware and SMC Firmware in order for it to run normally otherwise your Fans are going to go full throttle.
This is the SMC for a 2009 Mac Pro 1.39f5 for both the system and processor tray if you check the 2010 Model you'll find a different version.

Isn't that what I said?

----------

Tutor said:
He doesn't need to buy a 2010 board because he said,"... I just got a great deal on a 2009 8-core 2.93Ghz machine... ." [Emphasis added.] He may prefer to spend the extra money to by a new board because he's interest in upgrading that machine to hex's and doesn't want to do it himself. However, most likely, he may still have to install the CPUs himself unless he wants to spend even more money. That machine already has two 2.93 GHz (X5570) Quad-core Intel Xeon "Gainstown" processors, so he'll already have a dual cpu socket tray. Furthermore, that the EFI fix will leave his system with Mac Pro 2009 SMC firmware shouldn't cause a problem. I've upgraded, and am using to compose this response, a modified refurb bottom of the line (dual 2.26 GHz) Mac Pro 2009 that I upgraded to dual hex's using an EFI hack and it still has the Mac Pro 2009 SMC firmware and the fans are not running at full throttle. In fact, they ran just the same as before and that was the problem because dual hex's need more cooling. Now they're completely under control, using smcFanControl.

However, at this point in time, I question the wisdom of now following my path (buying a used 2009 machine to do the upgrade yourself) or his preferred path (buying a 2009 machine now with the intention to upgrade it in the future thru pre-assembly) because when all is said and done, he may as well wait for Sandy Bridge Xeon Macs, for the costs he'll have spent beginning yesteryear's route today will must likely exceed the costs of the brand new machines we hope will appear in a few months and throughly outperform the 2009-2010 machines. An end of the Mac Pro line announcement from Apple would/could change this assessment.

The board purchase option was only if they didn't want to deal with installing the processors themselves. A 2000.00 premium but available nonetheless.

stupidassdrumer · Mar 25, 2012

Any one have any luck going from 2010 5,1 dual 2.4ghz quadcore (8core), to a dual 3.33ghz hexcore (12core)? Im assuming they are compatible since it lists on OWC that they can do it. I know the process is simple just looking to see who has had success upgrading on a 2010. Also, I have a source for Engineering Samples ranging from x5650 to x5680. Has any one had success using engineering samples. It seems as though they should be the same as long as the stepping is correct and the model is correct (ie x5650 etc). These ESamples are new and have never been used too. Worst comes to worst they dont work and I just re-sell them.

Tutor · Mar 25, 2012

derbothaus said:
... .
The board purchase option was only if they didn't want to deal with installing the processors themselves. A 2000.00 premium but available nonetheless.

The OWC option appears to require that the customer send OWC a 2010 processor tray with functional Westmeres installed and in working order, per the FAQ. I cannot find any mention of them upgrading a 2009 Mac Pro and what setoff they'd give for Nehalems vs. Westmeres, but if they did I would suspect that the upgrade price would be much higher. Moreover, OWC would have to perform some sort of EFI hack which I seriously doubt that they would do.

jasonvp · Mar 26, 2012

stupidassdrumer said:
Any one have any luck going from 2010 5,1 dual 2.4ghz quadcore (8core), to a dual 3.33ghz hexcore (12core)?

I did a bit more than that and went from the dual 2.4s quads to dual 3.46 hexs. The hardest part of the swap is cleaning all the thermal paste off so you can apply new paste. It really is a super simple swap and it works just fine.

I can't help you with the engineering sample question as I've no experience with them.

jas

derbothaus · Mar 26, 2012

Tutor said:
The OWC option appears to require that the customer send OWC a 2010 processor tray with functional Westmeres installed and in working order, per the FAQ. I cannot find any mention of them upgrading a 2009 Mac Pro and what setoff they'd give for Nehalems vs. Westmeres, but if they did I would suspect that the upgrade price would be much higher. Moreover, OWC would have to perform some sort of EFI hack which I seriously doubt that they would do.

Forgot "trade-in" as it is effectively nothing.

stupidassdrumer · Mar 26, 2012

jasonvp said:
I did a bit more than that and went from the dual 2.4s quads to dual 3.46 hexs. The hardest part of the swap is cleaning all the thermal paste off so you can apply new paste. It really is a super simple swap and it works just fine.

I can't help you with the engineering sample question as I've no experience with them.

jas

thanks for the info, it def seems super easy to do with basic common sense. WOW, 3.46hex, that must have been a hefty bill! Where did you get the 3.46s from if you dont mind me asking?

jasonvp · Mar 26, 2012

stupidassdrumer said:
Where did you get the 3.46s from if you dont mind me asking?

Direct from an OEM Chinese importer, whom I wouldn't recommend to anyone. They caused all sorts of trouble with the importation because they didn't fill out the Customs forms properly. It basically forced me to become the importer on record, otherwise the chips were on their way back to HK.

Was there a plus side to the transaction? Absolutely. They bought my used 2.4s back from me, and charged me a lot less than retail for the new ones. I think I ended up paying about $2300 total for both chips, after the trade-in. But I won't do business with them again.

ETA: If you're interested in trying your luck with them, by all means. Click here for their home page (and be floored with the professional design!) Again, I wouldn't recommend it...

jas

stupidassdrumer · Mar 26, 2012

jasonvp said:
Direct from an OEM Chinese importer, whom I wouldn't recommend to anyone. They caused all sorts of trouble with the importation because they didn't fill out the Customs forms properly. It basically forced me to become the importer on record, otherwise the chips were on their way back to HK.

Was there a plus side to the transaction? Absolutely. They bought my used 2.4s back from me, and charged me a lot less than retail for the new ones. I think I ended up paying about $2300 total for both chips, after the trade-in. But I won't do business with them again.

ETA: If you're interested in trying your luck with them, by all means. Click here for their home page (and be floored with the professional design!) Again, I wouldn't recommend it...

jas

LMAO! How the hell did you get the courage to actually order from them after seeing their website and lack of English dictation?!? Im assuming you bought from them through ebay and then found their website. Do you know if these are matched pairs, or the price is for a single processor? I need 2 and my source for ESamples of X5650-X5680 usually notes that they are matched pairs at a lower price than what this dude is selling one processor for on ebay. How were the processors, new or used? Good condition? How was the packaging from them, in trays? If not in trays were they atleast in antistatic bags and antistatic bubblewrap? Lol I mat contact them directly. My company imports Raw PCB boards and components from China so I know how much of a PITA customs can be!

jasonvp · Mar 27, 2012

stupidassdrumer said:
Im assuming you bought from them through ebay and then found their website.

Close. I was looking for X5690s on EBay and I saw an ad they put up, so I followed it to their website. The transactions took place via email and Paypal (backed by my credit card) so I was doubly-protected against fraud. And it came close to that, as well.

I had my credit card company pursuing them because after placing the order, they dropped off the face of the Earth with no email confirmations or anything like that. A day or two after my credit card company "politely" inquired as to whiskey tango foxtrot was going on, I got a call from FedEx saying, "Hey, there's a box for you stuck in Customs, and it's from Hong Kong. The following forms weren't filled out properly..." The nice lady at FedEx helped me work through the Customs forms and within a day or so more, the chips were on my doorstep.

Do you know if these are matched pairs, or the price is for a single processor?

The last I checked, the prices are for single chips. These are brand new, OEM-packaged chips in plastic blister packs/trays. No pretty Intel box or anything like that. And they work just fine.

jas

spoonie1972 · Nov 16, 2012

so if i grab a processor tray from a 2010, put it in my 2009, (have 5,1 efi flashed) - it'll just work?

and then - when i want to upgrade to 6-cores, i dont have to worry about lidless etc? (the 2010 tray in question is the 2.4 4core x2)

PowerPCMacMan · Nov 16, 2012

SMC firmware for 2010 Mac Pro: 1.39f11

Btw, the OP must understand that both the backplane board and processor board's SMC must MATCH in order for the system to even run or turn on.

You can't run a 2009 with just the 2010 processor board.. The backplane of the 2009 would be 1.39f5 while the smc would be 1.39f11 on the processor board and that does not work..

Both have to match.. I got my boards for 300 bucks back in December of 2010.. 250.00 for the backplane board and 46.00 for the 2010 processor board. Gutted all the 2009 boards for 2010 boards. Nowadays, the price of both these boards is near 800 dollars.

mrh63061 said:
The 2009 and 2010 systems are the same with the exceptions of the Firmware in the 2010 models (to get the speed bump from the westmeres) and the SMC firmware, which is newer in the 2010 models, so you just can't pull a board from a 2010 and put into a 2009 without changing the Firmware and SMC Firmware in order for it to run normally otherwise your Fans are going to go full throttle.
This is the SMC for a 2009 Mac Pro 1.39f5 for both the system and processor tray if you check the 2010 Model you'll find a different version.

Dual 3.33 Hex in 2009 MacPro?

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