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Old Mar 29, 2012, 09:06 AM   #1
soco
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Child Support from Illegal Immigrant?

I searched and didn't see anything that seemed relevant, but I'll be short and to the point as I don't think this is a complicated question, but probably warrants a complicated answer.

A friend of mine has a kid from a relationship gone bad.
The father (proven) is still in the country and is due in court in September for charges of battery as well as falsifying documents (IDs and such).
He was to be deported but she doesn't know what's going on with that now.
She wants child support.

Anyway, she's not sure how to go about this, and I'm fully aware that she can/should call the local Bar Association and they'll probably point her in the right direction, but I just wanted to see if anyone here could speak on the issue in generalizations so that while she's mustering up the courage to do that, I can at least give her an idea of how worth it it may be to persue.

tl;dr: Chick wants child support from scumbag illegal immigrant father, but how?

Thanks in advance buddays.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 09:36 AM   #2
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I'm not sure if you will get the correct information here (the laws probably vary by location) so I would recommend talking to a local lawyer specializing in this.

From what I have seen in the news, illegals who cause damage when illegally driving never end up paying for it (so I'm very doubtful she can get support). I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't disappear and start over somewhere with another fake identity.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 09:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
I'm not sure if you will get the correct information here (the laws probably vary by location) so I would recommend talking to a local lawyer specializing in this.

From what I have seen in the news, illegals who cause damage when illegally driving never end up paying for it (so I'm very doubtful she can get support). I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't disappear and start over somewhere with another fake identity.
That's exactly the speculation at this point. We've been assuming he's just going to go buy a new ID and SSN and grab a job he doesn't deserve.

As far as child support is concerned, I know they need to know he has a job and be able to take from him or demand from him. If he's got a job under an illegal and false identity, there's no way to get it from him.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 10:05 AM   #4
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It seems like if he's going to be in the country, and if you can get him in court for child support, they're going to give him a blood test to establish paternity.

I don't care how many times he changes his ID, he can't change his DNA.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 11:34 AM   #5
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It seems like if he's going to be in the country, and if you can get him in court for child support, they're going to give him a blood test to establish paternity.

I don't care how many times he changes his ID, he can't change his DNA.
Proving he's the father doesn't seem to be the issue. The question is "How to you get an illegal alien to pay up when he can't legally work in the country". You could get him thrown in jail or deported but he still will not be paying. Like the OP said, most illegals disappear with new identities if they run into legal difficulties. With fake identification, he could work again but you would not be able to find him to get the money.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 11:51 AM   #6
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I hate to say it, OP, but your friend is very unlikely to ever get any money from this guy.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 11:54 AM   #7
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In some states, when you open a child support case, the state pays the custodial parent and collects from the noncustodial parent. The custodial parent gets paid, no matter what, and then it is up to the state to pursue the noncustodial parent for arrears. Texas is one such state.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 05:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
In some states, when you open a child support case, the state pays the custodial parent and collects from the noncustodial parent. The custodial parent gets paid, no matter what, and then it is up to the state to pursue the noncustodial parent for arrears. Texas is one such state.
Does this also apply when the parent is an illegal or there is nobody to go after ?
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 05:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
Does this also apply when the parent is an illegal or there is nobody to go after ?
I'm not sure, but I think so ... since they just issue a warrant after 90 days of non-payment.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 05:53 AM   #10
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I'm not sure, but I think so ... since they just issue a warrant after 90 days of non-payment.
Problem is the state only pays what they can collect from the non-custodial parent.

Advantage to this system however is that the states have the systems needed to track via DMV, wage, etc and it makes it much easier for them to attach salaries to get $. They can also flag tax returns, etc. Drawback of course is that if the NCP swaps SSN's at will they're going to pop off the radar. And yes, the state will also handle prosecution.

Good advice though to turn it over.. usually takes a court hearing to do so even if custody isn't an issue. That again varies state to state.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 09:04 AM   #11
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No chance

The illegal will hide within the system and never pay a cent.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 09:18 AM   #12
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No chance

The illegal will hide within the system and never pay a cent.
Yes, but if she is in a state that handles it like I describe above (I don't know where she is), then it won't matter to her.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 02:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
Yes, but if she is in a state that handles it like I describe above (I don't know where she is), then it won't matter to her.
The state is New Jersey. I'm interested to find out if that's handled like that here.

Is there a place I can inquire about it? Local family court maybe?

Just to update on this, the police showed up at her door today looking for this scumbag. Something about his driver's license (fake) and non-payment. Obviously the authorities don't know where this guy is and I hope he hasn't gone and bought a new identity yet.

Is it possible to use a person's Facebook posts and the IP associated with them to track them down? The police I mean, not me.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soco View Post
The state is New Jersey. I'm interested to find out if that's handled like that here.

Is there a place I can inquire about it? Local family court maybe?
I don't know if you/her have looked here, but I would give it a shot first.

It does seem that NJ relies on the payment of the NCP in order to pay the CP:
How long will it be before I receive payments?

This depends on the circumstances of your case and the services you want. If you know where the non-custodial parent lives, establishing a support order usually takes 90 days or less. Generally, payments start about two weeks after the order is entered if the non-custodial parent pays as directed. Once the account is set up, payments will be processed and sent within two working days after the state receives the payment. If you need other services such as location or paternity establishment, it may take longer before you start receiving payment. If you already have a support order issued in New Jersey, it take about 14 working days to set up an account and notify the non-custodial parent how to make payments. You will not receive a support payment, however, if the non-custodial parent does not pay. Please be patient after you file the application for services. It takes time to notify everyone about hearings, the legal rights and payment procedures. Once an account is established and the non-custodial parent is paying, you should receive payments on a regular basis.

What if the non-custodial parent doesn't pay?

If the non-custodial parent doesn't pay, Probation will take steps to enforce the order. If not previously ordered, this may include requiring the non-custodial parent's employer to take money out of his or her pay, having the past-due amount taken out of a tax refund or lottery winnings, returning the case to court or reporting the delinquency to a credit reporting agency. Probation can also execute on the non-custodial parent's property such as bank accounts, insurance proceeds, cars, boats, or real estate.
Quote:
Just to update on this, the police showed up at her door today looking for this scumbag. Something about his driver's license (fake) and non-payment. Obviously the authorities don't know where this guy is and I hope he hasn't gone and bought a new identity yet.

Is it possible to use a person's Facebook posts and the IP associated with them to track them down? The police I mean, not me.
It should be possible.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 02:49 PM   #15
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^^ Great resource. Thank you!
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 02:29 PM   #16
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I'm sure it is the same in NJ as in CA about this point, but you will find that receiving a child support order is one thing, one issue. It is an entirely different issue to collect or enforce that order.

People who are not W2 paycheck employees on whom a wage garnishment order can be placed are extremely difficult to collect from. Unreported "side-job" or "under the table" income is nigh impossible to prove without a willing admission. Business and corporation owners are equally difficult. Probably not the case here though.

While the law in CA specifies that to attribute income to an NCP requires both an ability (physically and mentally) to work, AND an opportunity (not incarcerated, etc.) to work. Some (I've seen it go both ways) bench officers will determine that an undocumented (Illegal) non-citizen will not have the legal opportunity to work and refuse to impute even minimum-wage to the NCP.

For those following along, it should be pointed out that NCP stands for the Non-Custodial Parent - that being the obligor parent expected to pay child support. 90% of the time this is the father. A 50-50 joint legal and physical custody order is irrelevant. What is relevant is the percentage of pattern visitation that is ACTUALLY occurring in the recent past. For purposes of child support determination, It does not matter if you want more visitation, or that the mom (CP) is hindering visitation. ****, in Kalifornia, mom can have the kids squirreled away in an underground bunker in a third world country, so that visitation cannot occur, but that is irrelevant. Only that visitation is not occurring is what is relevant. Just like they don't care what your source of income is, only that you have income or can be reasonably imputed income.

Anyway - I know this is largely California specific, but the concepts are similar nationally. California is also mandated to use The Guildeline software for child support calculation, as that linked website RJS provided appears to indicate that NJ uses it too. Hope this helps a little.
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 04:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soco View Post
I searched and didn't see anything that seemed relevant, but I'll be short and to the point as I don't think this is a complicated question, but probably warrants a complicated answer.

A friend of mine has a kid from a relationship gone bad.
The father (proven) is still in the country and is due in court in September for charges of battery as well as falsifying documents (IDs and such).
He was to be deported but she doesn't know what's going on with that now.
She wants child support.

Anyway, she's not sure how to go about this, and I'm fully aware that she can/should call the local Bar Association and they'll probably point her in the right direction, but I just wanted to see if anyone here could speak on the issue in generalizations so that while she's mustering up the courage to do that, I can at least give her an idea of how worth it it may be to persue.

tl;dr: Chick wants child support from scumbag illegal immigrant father, but how?

Thanks in advance buddays.
Assuming he is deported and stays in his country, no way to collect child support. If he comes back after deportation, then there is still no way as like you said, he can obtain fake IDs and SSNs and dodge the system.


Cruel reality, but truth. Establishing paternity won't do squat but just let her now with 100% certainty he is the father.


At any point, if things do get rough, we have the food stamps system in place and food banks.
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Old Apr 1, 2012, 11:45 AM   #18
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Assuming he is deported and stays in his country, no way to collect child support. If he comes back after deportation, then there is still no way as like you said, he can obtain fake IDs and SSNs and dodge the system.


Cruel reality, but truth. Establishing paternity won't do squat but just let her now with 100% certainty he is the father.


At any point, if things do get rough, we have the food stamps system in place and food banks.
Oh no we know he's the father. There's no argument to that point. And it's not even about the money. It's the principal of it all. This guy shouldn't be able to walk around with that money in his pocket. I'd rather burn it.
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Old Apr 1, 2012, 01:48 PM   #19
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Oh no we know he's the father. There's no argument to that point. And it's not even about the money. It's the principal of it all. This guy shouldn't be able to walk around with that money in his pocket. I'd rather burn it.
But like I said, he can and will because there is no legal way to bind him to give that money. Say you bound him, since he is illegal he can easily switch address and identities and end up not paying a dime.

Sucks.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
I'm not sure if you will get the correct information here (the laws probably vary by location) so I would recommend talking to a local lawyer specializing in this.

From what I have seen in the news, illegals who cause damage when illegally driving never end up paying for it (so I'm very doubtful she can get support). I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't disappear and start over somewhere with another fake identity.
like i said they care nothing about this country ,only what they can get i would not have a kid by them if they are illegal you will not see any money .the area where i live there is no illegals in the child support office only the blacks and the whites.oh they are at the welfare office and the wic office in nice cars and with men ,a lot of them in my area do not work ,just drive around with kids and the little woman in the car laugh at the usa<migrant workers my foot ,what and excuse to get over and get benefits from this country ,i say send the bill to their president .
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