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Old Apr 14, 2012, 05:51 PM   #101
Peterkro
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Originally Posted by iJohnHenry View Post
I UP'ed your post, but I would like to see some research results.

I agree that the average person in the U.S. feels they are owed a car, with little regard for the consequences.
It's a consumer survey Greendex,be aware it's a 14mb .pdf:

http://images.nationalgeographic.com...1275498709.pdf

The U.S. does have more fat bastard shops than any other country on earth though.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 05:52 PM   #102
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China's not tiny (in fact its basically the same size as the US) and it has perfectly decent public transport.
China has public transportation because they've built it. Meanwhile, the U.S. has been dismantling it's public transportation systems since the 1930s.

Why? Because of the mindset that's been promoted in America.

Automobile-ownership=freedom has been used as marketing tool by the American Big-Three automakers since day one. Thinking any other way is just anti-American (at least according to the auto-makers.)

The auto manufacturing industry became a huge part of the country's economy. The auto makers have spent billions on lobbying for new highways systems and have tried their best to kill anything that had to do with public transportation for decades.

American have been programmed to believe that public transpiration something only a communist would want because it's based on a socialistic concept of sharing. Ask the typical American about public transportation and they'll probably tell you its something only poor people would want or need.

In the 50s/60s, the concept of auto ownership worked for Middle America. Even a fairly low-paid Middle Class worker could buy a brand new auto for about 3 months worth of wages. Unfortunately, the price of auto are much, much higher and gasoline is no longer 35 cents per gallon. And yet, the typical America still doesn't want public transportation because that would mean giving up "freedom".

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All you have to do is wear more clothes, not a particularly expensive problem.
Sorry. Scooters just won't work in rural America. Not everyone here is young and 1/2 the population doesn't live in a metro. Rural towns are often many miles apart. Commutes to work can often be 50 miles or so.

Most Americans would be far better off with a horse and buggy than with a scooter.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 07:26 PM   #103
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Would you Europeans please stop bashing the US. I know we have faults but every human has faults.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 07:31 PM   #104
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Would you Europeans please stop bashing the US. I know we have faults but every human has faults.
True, but the U.S. has a penchant for extending their faults beyond their borders.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 07:57 PM   #105
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If they are really tight for money they should use public transport, or a scooter/push bike.
What a ridiculous/ignorant suggestion. You have no idea what every day life is like in the US and you're really in no position to talk. My mom has to have a car just to drive 10 minutes to the bus stop in the morning and then ride the bus an hour to Jersey City. Europeans get so pissed when we critique their way of life, but find it perfectly acceptable to criticize every aspect of life in a country that most of them have never visited.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 08:09 PM   #106
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Someone said to use public transport? In the USA? Please.

I think we could all count one our hands the number of cities in the USA that have public transport anything like Europe.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 09:05 PM   #107
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Someone said to use public transport? In the USA? Please.

I think we could all count one our hands the number of cities in the USA that have public transport anything like Europe.
Only cities that come to mind is DC and NYC that have a built up public transportation system.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 09:08 PM   #108
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Someone said to use public transport? In the USA? Please.

I think we could all count one our hands the number of cities in the USA that have public transport anything like Europe.
Americans constitute about 5% of the world's population but they own ~30% of the cars in the world. Remarkably, in an era of shrinking oil reserves, the average America probably still considers these stats to be a good thing.

We're like Pavlov's dog... If a person labels someone as a communist, we growl. If someone says "new car", we wag our tails.

Nationalism apparently killed off critical thinking...
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 09:34 PM   #109
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Americans constitute about 5% of the world's population but they own ~30% of the cars in the world. Remarkably, in an era of shrinking oil reserves, the average America probably still considers these stats to be a good thing.

We're like Pavlov's dog... If a person labels someone as a communist, we growl. If someone says "new car", we wag our tails.

Nationalism apparently killed off critical thinking...
I heard this criticism a lot while living in the UK. Yes, more Americans have vehicles because not having one is impractical. Ironically, while fewer people routinely drive in the UK, many of the vehicles have outrageously higher emissions than what is permitted on US roads.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:06 PM   #110
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I heard this criticism a lot while living in the UK. Yes, more Americans have vehicles because not having one is impractical. Ironically, while fewer people routinely drive in the UK, many of the vehicles have outrageously higher emissions than what is permitted on US roads.
And yet Americans still somehow manage to contribute 45 percent of the world's emission of carbon dioxide.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:23 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Only cities that come to mind is DC and NYC that have a built up public transportation system.
Never visited Boston or Seattle but heard good things about those cities as well.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:42 PM   #112
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And yet Americans still somehow manage to contribute 45 percent of the world's emission of carbon dioxide.
Something is off with that stat. China has the most CO2 emissions. If your stat is true, that means after the US and China the rest of the world accounts for <10% global CO2 emissions?

According to the UN, the US accounts for 18% of global CO2 (as of 2008).

Last edited by Sedulous; Apr 14, 2012 at 10:48 PM.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:49 AM   #113
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Let's bring this slightly back on topic, and yes, it is a bit late, as I've had more important things to do today.

Let's also look a bit further in to Reagan and Bush, and how it ties back into this idiot congressman saying that the Blues are communists.

First, trickle-down economics leading to the 1%. enacted by Reagan in the 80s, which lead to the failures in the S&L crisis. This is the same laissez-faire economics that Bush 43 had in 2001 and 2002 that gave us just joyful Republican times as Enron, MCI-WorldCom, Tyco, and Arthur Andersen. WAM2, you would have been 5 - 6 years old by then, so you probably didn't care about it; and I understand why you wouldn't. At that age, I would have cared more about Pokemon, Yugioh, and wanting to go outside and play.

Nice little 'small mistake' present from our parents and grandparents, wouldn't you say? You can't blame the Blues on those, because all of that happened while the Reds had the House, the Senate, and the White House.

One more thing[tm]. We had the biggest and best time to eliminate one of the last 3 Communist regimes in the world in 2002, and Bush screwed that up by uttering 6 mere words: "Axis of Evil", and "Outpost of Tyranny". The country in question? North Korea; a country which had in the mid-90s, with Madeleine Albright's help, had open talks with South Korea, to the point of unifying under one country, Korea, for the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. The first time that had happened since their conflict began in 1949. Bush's including of N. Korea in his 'axis of evil' not only killed 6 years of Albright's work, but they also cut off ties with S. Korea, and went to as far as nuclear proliferation. Bush, your Republican President, made the situation worse, to where it has escalated to where it is at now. 6 small words killed the Sunshine Policy and years of work to end the decades-old conflict, which politically, the Koreas are still at war with each other. Sad that 6 words (small mistake, right?) ended that work.

Oh wait.. that was also when you were 4 years old and didn't know what the rest of us grown-ups were doing at that time.

So why did I bring up North Korea? They are a Communist country. They control what is said on TV. They control what is said on the Radio. They control what is said in any and all types of media. They control what is shown to their people, and the rest of the world. Case in point: the people in N. Korea being forced to cry for Kim Jong-Il during his funeral procession. with that, I have some questions to ask you.
  1. Do the Democrats control all TV stations/outlets?
  2. Do the Democrats control all radio stations?
  3. Do the Democrats control all that is in the media?
  4. Do the Democrats exert all and extreme control over all of the people of their country?

If you or anyone else answered 'yes' to any of these questions, I'd say that you (plural) are greatly out of touch with your own country, and I suggest you set out on your own to see what everyone is doing, and how they live in this country of yours. Once again, while I can blame a lot of this on naiveté, I seriously doubt you know what is going on, except for what is expunged out by conservative/right wing media outlets.

BL.

Last edited by bradl; Apr 15, 2012 at 03:40 AM. Reason: fat fingered year of Korean Conflict.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 03:02 AM   #114
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Would you Europeans please stop bashing the US. I know we have faults but every human has faults.
Sorry, I didn't realise quite how big a deal car ownership was .

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Ironically, while fewer people routinely drive in the UK, many of the vehicles have outrageously higher emissions than what is permitted on US roads.
That seems highly unlikely...

We usually have much smaller engine cars for starters.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 03:04 AM   #115
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Something is off with that stat. China has the most CO2 emissions. If your stat is true, that means after the US and China the rest of the world accounts for <10% global CO2 emissions?

According to the UN, the US accounts for 18% of global CO2 (as of 2008).
Yes, 18% sounds in the ballpark... I actually meant to type 25%, rather than 45%, recalling that figure from data presented by the World Resources Institute some years ago...

Regardless, my point stands: The U.S. has little to brag about in regards to its efforts to curb CO2 emissions, seem we've basically outsourced its production to China.

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... The first time that had happened since their conflict began in 1959. ...
I take it you meant to type 1949, rather than 1959, in regards to the beginning of the Korean War, assuming you're referring to the Mungyeong massacre...? At any rate, the U.S. State Dept. cites the timeline of the war as being June 25, 1950 – July 27, 1953
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Last edited by localoid; Apr 15, 2012 at 03:10 AM.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 03:37 AM   #116
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I take it you meant to type 1949, rather than 1959, in regards to the beginning of the Korean War, assuming you're referring to the Mungyeong massacre...? At any rate, the U.S. State Dept. cites the timeline of the war as being June 25, 1950 – July 27, 1953
You're right. 1949. I fat fingered. updated my post. Thanks for catching that.

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Old Apr 15, 2012, 07:54 AM   #117
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...
  1. Do the Democrats control all TV stations/outlets?
  2. Do the Democrats control all radio stations?
  3. Do the Democrats control all that is in the media?...
...No, the Democrats don't..........
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 08:06 AM   #118
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...No, the Democrats don't..........
I see what you did there! The democrats don't but the ____ do, right? I wonder which religious group you might be talking about.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 11:13 AM   #119
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Only cities that come to mind is DC and NYC that have a built up public transportation system.
Another one that should be considered is San Francisco. They have more public transportation choices than any city I know of in the U.S. They have Bart, Muni Trains, electric streetcar, electric buses, gas buses, boat ferries and even the cable cars.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:15 PM   #120
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That seems highly unlikely...

We usually have much smaller engine cars for starters.
It may seem unlikely and I was also surprised because I had always been under the impression that Europeans were more sophisticated about environmental concerns. And although vehicles (at least in the UK) were usually smaller, the emissions laws there are no where near as strict as in the US (especially compared to some states like California). If anything, in the UK efforts seem focused on charging people fees for emissions rather than controlling them. In a way, I guess that is a more democratic way of dealing with it.

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Yes, 18% sounds in the ballpark... I actually meant to type 25%, rather than 45%, recalling that figure from data presented by the World Resources Institute some years ago...

Regardless, my point stands: The U.S. has little to brag about in regards to its efforts to curb CO2 emissions, seem we've basically outsourced its production to China.
Actually CO2 emissions have been decreasing in the US. This may be partly because of less economic activity but on the other hand, the US population has also been increasing. Blame China for what China does. The "good" news is at least both nations are trying to do something.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 02:46 PM   #121
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It may seem unlikely and I was also surprised because I had always been under the impression that Europeans were more sophisticated about environmental concerns. And although vehicles (at least in the UK) were usually smaller, the emissions laws there are no where near as strict as in the US (especially compared to some states like California). If anything, in the UK efforts seem focused on charging people fees for emissions rather than controlling them. In a way, I guess that is a more democratic way of dealing with it.
This is not an easy thing to compare,there are different philosophies,different measures and different outcomes.California certainly has some of the most stringent tests (necessity is the mother of invention) as have Germany and the Netherlands (these tend to set EU regulations ).It would take huge research to find the answer and experts are divided on the matter.One big difference is that U.S. regulations take economics into account while Germany (and the EU ) take restrictions of emissions as the goal without referring to cost.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 03:36 PM   #122
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It may seem unlikely and I was also surprised because I had always been under the impression that Europeans were more sophisticated about environmental concerns. And although vehicles (at least in the UK) were usually smaller, the emissions laws there are no where near as strict as in the US (especially compared to some states like California).
It I have the date correct, it wasn't until 2005 that mandatory, EU-wide regulations went into effect-- long after air in the U.S. improved greatly. Brings back memories of smog in Athens in the 80's that was like smog in Los Angeles in the 60's. Both the EU and the US gave diesel a free pass for a long time, though.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 03:48 PM   #123
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It I have the date correct, it wasn't until 2005 that mandatory, EU-wide regulations went into effect-- long after air in the U.S. improved greatly. Brings back memories of smog in Athens in the 80's that was like smog in Los Angeles in the 60's. Both the EU and the US gave diesel a free pass for a long time, though.
I'm not even sure why we are all talking about emissions in a thread about the Democratic Party being communist. Was the idea is that government regulating industry is tantamount to communism?

I don't recall anyone actually demonstrating how/where Democrats have pursued communist ideology. Is it the same imagined link between "socialistic" concepts like universal healthcare that set this off? Or was it regulating the banking industry to prevent them from abusing the system and causing a global financial meltdown? Or Democratic resistance to teaching creationism and fairytales as science?

Let's call the accusation what it is: Blatant fear mongering.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 04:13 PM   #124
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Blatant fear mongering

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I'm not even sure why we are all talking about emissions in a thread about the Democratic Party being communist. Was the idea is that government regulating industry is tantamount to communism?
I don't recall how we wandered in this direction, although I will say that almost every Republican starting with Reagan used a special sneer whenever they uttered the word regulations, as if Stalin and Hitler were responsible for regulations.

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I don't recall anyone actually demonstrating how/where Democrats have pursued communist ideology.
You can't recall it because it never happened.

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Is it the same imagined link between "socialistic" concepts like universal healthcare that set this off? Or was it regulating the banking industry to prevent them from abusing the system and causing a global financial meltdown? Or Democratic resistance to teaching creationism and fairytales as science?

Let's call the accusation what it is: Blatant fear mongering.
That is what it is, pure and simple.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 04:46 PM   #125
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If they are really tight for money they should use public transport, or a scooter/push bike.
Sorry, couldn't resist...
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