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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:20 PM   #101
chameleon81
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This is the software world Apple is creating ,

Buyers buying stuff where they can not test/trial.
Buyers only rely on others feedback to see if the software is going to do the job.
Buyers expect super high quality from 1 dollar software and have no respect to developers. (I'm not a developer but I get really sad when I read some comment on app store. People are seeking for perfection for 1 dollar.)

I hope some one will stop this.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:20 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
If you don't like it, you can always get the free trial of MS Office.
I've the unlocked version of the MS Office 2011 for Mac SP2. No need for a trial.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:22 PM   #103
wizard
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Weak or more suitable for general usage?

No software suite is perfect, but iWork is certainly good enough for many users. As to word and excel, how many of those advanced features actually get used? In business all I ever see used are the core feature sets and nothing more.

The reality is excessive features are actually a negative.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
I'm as much of an Apple fan as anyone, but compared to Word 2011 Pages is garbage. Not only is it lacking many features, but it also has compatibility issues with MS Office. Last I checked we are living in an "Office" world so perfect compatibility is a must.

In fact the whole iWork Office Suite is pretty weak next to Office 2011. Keynote is somewhat competitive against PowerPoint, but Numbers and Pages just are not in the same league as Excel and Word. I hate to admit that Microsoft does something better then Apple, but when it comes to Office Suites there is no comparison.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:24 PM   #104
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So now we just wait for the iWork EOL announcement.... kind of sad really.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:24 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by nutmac View Post
I fully understand why Apple is doing that, making up for smaller margin by increasing demand (with lower pricing). And since Apple also generate revenue from hardware sales (which would benefit from lower software pricing compared to similar software running on Windows), it can afford to sacrifice margin.

But that model does not necessarily fit the business model of products from different companies, especially dedicated software vendors.

Furthermore, people are accustomed to perks of being a loyal customer. By offering at least a small discount (e.g., 10-20%), you can increase the odd of repeat sale tremendously over none at all.

Let's face it. App Store (both Mac and iOS) is inflexible and more can be done to meet the needs of both developers and customers as a whole.

That said, I suspect we will have our answers around iOS 6 and Mountain Lion release, when some of the complementary Apple apps may finally receive a major version upgrade.
We may get demos on the Mac App Store but I doubt you'll see paid upgrades. In-App purchases are about as far as Apple is going to go. Discounts on upgrades are rapidly becoming "how things used to be done" and have little bearing today where online digital distribution is poised to take over.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:26 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by arkmannj View Post
They basically activate through your AppleID and such. While much more transparent than Microsoft's Key Codes, it's essentually doing a similar thing from what I understand.


I'm hoping this move indicates a pending to the iWork products...


Edit: I wish there was a dedicated area of the App store for "trial versions".
You're right, there 'should be' Trial versions of most software products in the app store ... but then suckers like us wouldn't fuel the App Store's billions in sales .99 cent at a time, or in many cases much more than .99 cents ...

More expensive software absolutely should have Trial Versions ... iWork included ... but then again, Apple's goal is to make money, not do what's in the consumers best interest ... fair play is long gone. Sad.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:31 PM   #107
wizard
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You can always find something negative if you look hard enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon81 View Post
This is the software world Apple is creating ,

Buyers buying stuff where they can not test/trial.
Trials and free versions are up to the developer. They can be had on App store if the developer wants to go to the effort. as to Apple why not wait and see what happens when the new versions come out.
Quote:

Buyers only rely on others feedback to see if the software is going to do the job.
Then don't buy the software and write the developer a note or two as to why you didn't purchase his program. Don't blame Apple for something out of their control.
Quote:

Buyers expect super high quality from 1 dollar software and have no respect to developers. (I'm not a developer but I get really sad when I read some comment on app store. People are seeking for perfection for 1 dollar.)
It depends upon the app. A developer might be making nothing or raking in millions. It is not unreasonable to expect solid software on the App store. Moreso it really doesn't matter how much something costs, if it doesn't work up to your expectations then you have the right to express that.
Quote:


I hope some one will stop this.
Stop what? App Store is the best thing since sliced bread. I really don't get this whining, App Store have been a win for both developers and Apple. Sure it is a different way to market things as there is no brick and mortar stores to deal with but that is a very good thing.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:41 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon81 View Post
This is the software world Apple is creating ,

Buyers buying stuff where they can not test/trial.
Buyers only rely on others feedback to see if the software is going to do the job.
Buyers expect super high quality from 1 dollar software and have no respect to developers. (I'm not a developer but I get really sad when I read some comment on app store. People are seeking for perfection for 1 dollar.)

I hope some one will stop this.
YOU can stop it right now.

Buy a PC. Test all the apps your heart desires for free!
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:48 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
I'm as much of an Apple fan as anyone, but compared to Word 2011 Pages is garbage.
MS = BLOAT and horrid UIs. Word can have all the features MS can jam into it. Office has gotten a ****** reputation over the years for usability . . . there's a reason for that. That ribbon monstrosity doesn't make things any better.

On to the others. Frankly, Keynote makes PowerPoint look like third-rate Shareware. As for the deficiencies with Numbers, agreed. However, you'll find it generally gets high praise.

As for Pages . . . it's built to be HYBRID WP/Layout software (and since it's from Apple, it means you won't tear your hair out trying to get it to do what it was built for.) Apple does not currently offer any dedicated Word Processor. This is where developers pick up the slack, notably, with Mellel. Superior OpenType support and text-handling. Nisus Writer Pro in many ways comes close, but I find its UI not to my liking. Both Mellel and Nisus Writer Pro, however, are far superior to Word. They are both built for long, complex documents, with UIs and all-round simplicity that MS can only gawk at in envy.

However, back to Pages . . .

Thumb resize.





Just sayin . . .

Last edited by dejo; Apr 16, 2012 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Please use [timg] tags for large images.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:56 PM   #110
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iWorks just needs to be offered in the cloud, similar to google docs.

edit: I agree^ Office in general is bloat. The great thing about iWork is that they've really peaked on UI and just add more functionality to the app. Office 03 is the peak of microsofts engineering. Funny iWork is most similar to 03.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:09 PM   #111
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this is ridiculous.

Apple needs to introduce a way of testing Software by demo versions on ALL APP STORES!!
Who blindly buys Software in an age where everything is a beta?
Sorry, but no.

What now? If you can't get a trial/demo, back Torrent downloads & cracks? Well... rahter that then buying without trying.

frankly: idiots!
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:10 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by kwiqsilver View Post
Is that assessment based on anything? Updates are free in the app store aren't they? So to charge us for a new version of Pages, etc., they'd have to make it a new app store product (e.g. Pages '12).
Right, and that's what he said: "Major Version."

So I assume it will work just like the iOS store: minor updates are free and new major versions have to be completely re-bought. So that's my basis...that it will work the same as it does on the iPhone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by princigalli View Post
That FCP is a very bad "iMovie pro". I don't want to see Apple turn Aperture into an "iMovie pro" concentrating more on Titter sharing than proper rendering of RAW files and handling of professional features.
I enjoy how many of the complaints about Final Cut X basically say nothing.

You don't like it because "say things like Twitter and iMovie!" That's called misdirection, not an opinion. If there's an actual thing you don't like about it, I'm all ears. I have my own list going of things I don't like, but it's full of actual things, not vague insinuations.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:18 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
MS = BLOAT and horrid UIs. Word can have all the features MS can jam into it. Office has gotten a ****** reputation over the years for usability . . . there's a reason for that. That ribbon monstrosity doesn't make things any better.

On to the others. Frankly, Keynote makes PowerPoint look like third-rate Shareware. As for the deficiencies with Numbers, agreed. However, you'll find it generally gets high praise.

As for Pages . . . it's built to be HYBRID WP/Layout software (and since it's from Apple, it means you won't tear your hair out trying to get it to do what it was built for.) Apple does not currently offer any dedicated Word Processor. This is where developers pick up the slack, notably, with Mellel. Superior OpenType support and text-handling. Nisus Writer Pro in many ways comes close, but I find its UI not to my liking. Both Melle and Nisus Writer Pro, however, are far superior to Word. They are both built for long, complex documents, with UIs and all-round simplicity that MS can only gawk at in envy.

Just sayin . . .
Some of us live with a Windows PC at work and a Mac at home. When I push documents, presentations and spreadsheets back and forth between my PC and my Mac using Office it just works. If I build a presentation at home to pull up on the PC in front of my class I know it is going to look exactly as I planned.

Now obviously you think ANY product not built by Apple is garbage and everything that Apple builds is flawless so arguing this point isn't worth my time.

Just saying...
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:48 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
In case you still need the trial....

http://www.apple.com/dk/iwork/download-trial/
I knew it, there is always a catch!
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:52 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
MS = BLOAT and horrid UIs.
The only bloated thing i see at the moment is your post.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
iWorks just needs to be offered in the cloud, similar to google docs.
Yeah especially in rural areas and for sensitive data...
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:54 PM   #116
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By the way, for those not happy with Pages:

Mellel

http://www.redlers.com/

This is indeed a purist's word processor. It's very worth it.

The only real advantage the *other* purist's word processor - Nisus Writer Pro - has over Mellel, is that it employs a more familiar UI, and that it handles Word files better on import. They did a bit of a hack-job with styles though, and Nisus uses the same text-rendering engine as Pages, which is Webkit - and while that's quite good, it's nowhere near as good as Mellel's custom text engine. And if you're interested in beautiful OpenType typography, Mellel is the way to go.

Last edited by *LTD*; Apr 16, 2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:16 PM   #117
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Prevent changing from iPhoto and Aperture to Lightroom

There was a loop-hole that allowed you to get your photoes out of iPhoto using the trial version of Aperture with categories and everything. Not anymore. Now, all your work in iPhoto is trapped there with no hope of upgrading to anything but Aperture. Before this I was thinking about upgrading to Aperture, but got so upset that I decided to buy Lightroom instead and reorganize me 8000+ photoes. Apple lost a fanboy on this one.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:20 PM   #118
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Apple started the trial version of Aperture days after Adobe came out with Lightroom and offered it with a 30 day trial. In other words Apples was forced into it by a competing product. Now Apple has decided to compete by simply lowering the price. Buying a 80 product is not so much of a risk to most people.

I remember when Apertue 1.0 was first released. It was something like $600. I remember going to a Aple sponsored seminar at a hotel. I like at that time it only ran well on a Mac Pro and the price was to high, WAY over priced for what it does. The Lightroom came out and Adobe and Apple had a bit of a price war. Now it is $79 and runs on any Mac We can thank Adobe for that.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:20 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Stoystory View Post
Now, all your work in iPhoto is trapped there with no hope of upgrading to anything but Aperture.
The scary thing about walled gardens.

The scary thing about closed ecosystems.

But seriously, don't you save and back up the camera raw images separately from Iphoto?

(I always run my Canons in RAW+JPEG mode, and archive both files.)
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:41 PM   #120
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It's way better than Microsoft's approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebex View Post
I recently bought my first Apple product (the new iPad). It seems that I will not be buying iWorks if I can't try it first. No free trial, no refunds? Really?

Actually, I find the applications purchasing much less, how shall I say it.... confidence inspiring than the way it's handled on my Android device (24 hour return policy, no questions asked). With Apple, I am limited to claims by the vendors, and a few reviews by folk whose opinions I cannot trust. In the end it just ends up being money spent in good faith with no means of getting it back if the app is not right - not the way to encourage repeat business in my book.

It's hard to believe this is the accepted system of doing business.

I am thinking of purchasing my first iMac but may have to reconsider.
I bought iWork '09 without using the free trial and loved it immediately. Not only did I pay less than half the price of MO for Mac, it's also much better in my opinion.

And there are of course other ways and other productivity suites that you could also go with. Microsoft is now offering a very basic MO with limited functionality and ad-supported but you can also buy their Home and Student version for twice what you would pay for iWork and only be able to install it one on machine. Or you could splurge and get their Home and Office version for $200 (because it includes outlook,cloud accessibility, and one year of support) and still only have permission to install it on one machine.

Compare this with a MAC and their productivity suite is half the cost, installable on any machine linked with the same AppleID, and Macs come with an email application that obviates the need for outlook. Add in the automatic one year support and buying iWork is already a much better deal that Office.

You could also download LibreOffice (completely free)to work with .ppt files and other common and ubiquitous file formats. I personally downloaded it so that I could export pages documents to the .doc format due to school requirements and I use LibreOffice to check the formatting. LibreOffice is also a good idea because it comes with the three basic productivity applications but includes a drawing and a database application.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:47 PM   #121
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horse-hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCroissant View Post
Or you could splurge and get their Home and Office version for $200 (because it includes outlook,cloud accessibility, and one year of support) and still only have permission to install it on one machine.
At least get your facts correct when you go on a fan-bash of Microsoft.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116856
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:59 PM   #122
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So I assume everyone here w/ neg comments has insider info regarding this move and there is no "second shoe" to drop soon -- maybe with 10.8 or new Macs. Something like Apple starting to allow "trial ware" or a new version of iWorks and Aperture on deck (both are quite old, esp. Aperture w/ Lightroom 4 just released) or who knows...

It's not completely out of Apple's M.O. to ditch a policy weeks prior to a new announcement. I think many of the comments here are off the cuff and based in mindless emotion, not fact (because the large possibility we only have half the story right now).
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:05 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by chameleon81 View Post
This is the software world Apple is creating ,

Buyers buying stuff where they can not test/trial.
So? Back in the days of yore you just bought software. There was no "trial version." Trial software is a marketing gimmick that was incidentally, and *only* incidentally beneficial for consumers as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon81 View Post
Buyers only rely on others feedback to see if the software is going to do the job.
Aside from YOUR OWN RESEARCH, this is refreshing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon81 View Post
Buyers expect super high quality from 1 dollar software and have no respect to developers. (I'm not a developer but I get really sad when I read some comment on app store. People are seeking for perfection for 1 dollar.)

I hope some one will stop this.
Aperture is 1 dollar?
Scrivener is 1 dollar?
Mellel is 1 dollar?
Keynote is 1 dollar?

Which version of the Mac App Store is this? LOL
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:09 PM   #124
valkata
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I've never bought software without trying it first. And I doubt I will ever do that.

There's too much crappy paid software around. Buying ten applications until I find the one which does the job right is too large luxury for me.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:21 PM   #125
valkata
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Originally Posted by wizard View Post
Stop what? App Store is the best thing since sliced bread. I really don't get this whining, App Store have been a win for both developers and Apple. Sure it is a different way to market things as there is no brick and mortar stores to deal with but that is a very good thing.
So, are you developer or Apple?

What AppStore gave to consumers? Other than no trials and crippled applications.
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