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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:15 PM   #1
AP_piano295
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Lets Just Say it Republicans are the Problem

A nice editorial on the collapse of politics in the US. There might be major issues in both parties, but the true blame here lays with the Republican party and the right wing. Lets have no more bones about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...T_story_1.html
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:41 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
A nice editorial on the collapse of politics in the US. There might be major issues in both parties, but the true blame here lays with the Republican party and the right wing. Lets have no more bones about it.
Republicans, of course, would disagree.

I blame our Founders. I'm beginning to think that they weren't so smart after all.

They should have adopted a parlimentary system similar to the UK.

This two-party winner-take-all system has led to gridlock.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:41 PM   #3
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It's quite shocking how the GOP isn't some fringe party. A lot of the craziness their senior members say about social issues would pretty much preclude them from a main party here.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:56 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Republicans, of course, would disagree.

I blame our Founders. I'm beginning to think that they weren't so smart after all.

They should have adopted a parlimentary system similar to the UK.

This two-party winner-take-all system has led to gridlock.
It might seem crazy (though it has been historically attempted) but I think I would like to try a system of random selection for government.

Say 1000 people chosen at random selected for 5 years of governance. Each paid a good salary and housed in Washington DC. Absolutely no money or favors to be accepted by any outside forces on punishment of death.

These 1000 people would govern 11 months out of the year, would hold hearings with the best scientist, mathematicians, historians etc. At the end of their five years they would leave governance and never return.

Who wants to give it a try?

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It's quite shocking how the GOP isn't some fringe party. A lot of the craziness their senior members say about social issues would pretty much preclude them from a main party here.
What upsets me the most about the Republican party is that as a liberal I feel they have backed me into a corned.

I don's support the Democratic party I'm disgusted by their record on:

-Taxes
-Heath care
-Personal liberties
etc.

But I don't feel like I have any option other than to support them. If I din't feel like the Republicans would drive this country into the ground than I could vote for a more liberal 3rd party. As is I'm so afraid of the extreme right I keep voting for a party which doesn't represent my views because the alternative is so much worse.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:57 PM   #5
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Republicans, of course, would disagree.

I blame our Founders. I'm beginning to think that they weren't so smart after all.

They should have adopted a parlimentary system similar to the UK.

This two-party winner-take-all system has led to gridlock.
All systems have some problems. A parliament/coalition government that can't successfully manage to get enough members to form alliances is just as screwed as we currently are, maybe even worse off.

The real problem in America is the political parties themselves but no one likes to hear that
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:08 PM   #6
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All systems have some problems.
Yes, but it seems that the United States has lost our ability to make big decisions such as UHC, or to even have both sides work towards a common goal. Other nations are passing us up, and there doesn't seem to be an end to our political stagnation. In fact, it only seems to be growing worse.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Republicans, of course, would disagree.

I blame our Founders. I'm beginning to think that they weren't so smart after all.

They should have adopted a parlimentary system similar to the UK.

This two-party winner-take-all system has led to gridlock.
George Washington warned us about the two-party system. But, no one listened.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:19 PM   #8
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George Washington warned us about the two-party system. But, no one listened.
Probably because of the wooden teeth.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:21 PM   #9
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Blaming the failures of the government on Republicans is almost comical. I have a feeling Republicans would say the same about Democrats, Independents would say the same about Republicans and Democrats, and Native Americans would say the same about European Americans (well...with that last one, I can understand). Clinton and the Republicans made some tremendous advances during their time together...so who do those victories fall on? In recent time, Congress has been good at hampering both Presidents Obama and Bush from realizing many of their intentions, for better or worse. If you are a Republican stopping President Obama, you likely see that as 'good'. If you are a Democrat stopping President Bush, you likely see that as 'good'. I think the two different parties are not necessarily a bad thing in some cases, but when they are at the inability to compromise in which they currently are, bad things could happen because basic things don't get done (such as the Government 'shut-down' from last year's budget crisis).


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They should have adopted a parliamentary system similar to the UK.
While still not perfect, I think this is the best way of GTD in government. The more I have read and observed this, the more I like how it functions.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:22 PM   #10
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^^^^

The Washington Post is a Historically conservative publication (though widely regarded for its journalistic integrity).

Just so you're aware.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:25 PM   #11
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Probably because of the wooden teeth.
And the wig...
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
^^^^

The Washington Post is a Historically conservative publication (though widely regarded for its journalistic integrity).

Just so you're aware.
You sure about that?

You're thinking about The Washington Examiner.

Just so you're aware.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post

What upsets me the most about the Republican party is that as a liberal I feel they have backed me into a corned.

I don's support the Democratic party I'm disgusted by their record on:

-Taxes
-Heath care
-Personal liberties
etc.

But I don't feel like I have any option other than to support them. If I din't feel like the Republicans would drive this country into the ground than I could vote for a more liberal 3rd party. As is I'm so afraid of the extreme right I keep voting for a party which doesn't represent my views because the alternative is so much worse.
[For some reason my browser doesn't like the WP article, so, I'm responding to the responders.]

In the past when this happened, and it has happened several times, third parties either succeeded (e.g. Republican Party) or caused a realignment of the existing parties. What "should" happen based on history, is that non-racist non-religious-bigot fiscally conservative Republicans would form a third-party alternative to the existing Republicans. They could call themselves the Real Republicans (tm).
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
^^^^

The Washington Post is a Historically conservative publication (though widely regarded for its journalistic integrity).

Just so you're aware.
I never said it was completely untrue. Republicans have hampered the US in achieving some things the rest of the world equates with common Western civilization (and most studies indicate are beneficial to everyone's well-being), such as universal healthcare, good sex ed, access to contraceptives, and standardized education and childcare.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:38 PM   #15
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You sure about that?

You're thinking about The Washington Examiner.

Just so you're aware.
Well that's my interpretation :

Quote:
The Post's editorial positions on foreign policy and economic issues have seen a definitively conservative bent: it steadfastly supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq, warmed to President George W. Bush's proposal to partially privatize Social Security, opposed a deadline for U.S. withdrawal from the Iraq War, and advocated free trade agreements, including CAFTA.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
^^^^

The Washington Post is a Historically conservative publication (though widely regarded for its journalistic integrity).

Just so you're aware.

Its only fitting you would believe "Pravda on the Potomac" has journalistic integrity......But heck, you've been wrong about everything else...You guys are a hoot with your circle jerks..
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:43 PM   #17
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Its only fitting you would believe "Pravda on the Potomac" has journalistic integrity......But heck, you've been wrong about everything else...You guys are a hoot with your circle jerks..
Congratulations you can read the first line of a Wikipedia article .
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:03 PM   #18
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Congratulations you can read the first line of a Wikipedia article .
Could you please continue to argue that the WP is a conservative newspaper? I've got some friends in DC who'll find this hilarious if it gets fleshed out more.

EDIT:

Knew there was one I was forgetting: The Washington Times. You could have been thinking of that one also.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:15 PM   #19
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I blame our Founders. I'm beginning to think that they weren't so smart after all.
We can't really blame them; they didn't expect so much "democracy" in a republican government.

And, in case they were wrong, they made it possible to amend the Constitution. So, the onus has been on us for a long time now.
Quote:
They should have adopted a parlimentary system similar to the UK.

This two-party winner-take-all system has led to gridlock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Yes, but it seems that the United States has lost our ability to make big decisions such as UHC, or to even have both sides work towards a common goal. Other nations are passing us up, and there doesn't seem to be an end to our political stagnation. In fact, it only seems to be growing worse.
You also don't want a system that makes it too easy to pass laws either. We might not have gotten UHC this time, but we also didn't get SOPA (or its latest incarnation).

The best of both worlds in governmental structure, is not a parliament modeled after the UK's, which uses single-member districts, but a proportional representation model that gives any party seats equal to the percentage of the vote it earned; this forces coalition governments to form which usually have mixed cabinets and a party structure that encourages more professionalism (because it isn't possible to win a seat by claiming something outrageous). This type of governmental model has produced the fewest (if any) dictators, the most stable evolution of policy, and very high voter turnout (where voting isn't mandatory).
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:24 PM   #20
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Agree with calboy on the government.

But all in all this thread is rather ridiculous. From your point of view republicans are all wrong, from their point of view democrats are all wrong. The fact of the matter is that both sides have valid criticisms and valid points to make. Making a sweeping generalization either way does no good. It to reinforce rigid political ideologies and foster resentment toward "the other guys".
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
A nice editorial on the collapse of politics in the US. There might be major issues in both parties, but the true blame here lays with the Republican party and the right wing. Lets have no more bones about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...T_story_1.html
Republican leadership, and their blind, self centered fantasizing followers are about 75% of the problem and the article is completely right in that it all starting with the slimy Newt in the 1980s who believed in a line in the sand, no compromises, period, just his myopic pro-business, anti-individual, anti-environment governing model, which survives without him on the GOPer side. It will be the undoing of this country if anything is.

When the opposition won, the country is in dire straights, and your party's plan is to stonewall for 4 years till the next election, they have failed in their duty as elected officials and should be impeached. I realize this position could be turned around onto the Dems, but IMO the Dems are no where as bad as the GOPers. The situation makes me question the functionality of Democracy. We may need a complete breakdown, starting over from scratch, or as an extreme, a benevolent dictator before we can move ahead.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:54 PM   #22
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Republican leadership, and their blind, self centered fantasizing followers are about 75% of the problem and the article is completely right in that it all starting with the slimy Newt in the 1980s who believed in a line in the sand, no compromises, period, just his myopic pro-business, anti-individual, anti-environment governing model, which survives without him on the GOPer side. It will be the undoing of this country if anything is.

When the opposition won, the country is in dire straights, and your party's plan is to stonewall for 4 years till the next election, they have failed in their duty as elected officials and should be impeached. I realize this position could be turned around onto the Dems, but IMO the Dems are no where as bad as the GOPers. The situation makes me question the functionality of Democracy. We may need a complete breakdown, starting over from scratch, or as an extreme, a benevolent dictator before we can move ahead.
In 20 years the roles could be reversed where people say that the Democrats are doing everything they can to hurt the country. You have too look at this as snapshots in time, not blanket statements now. Over 200 years of government have seen changes in the parties and they will continue to evolve.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:26 PM   #23
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Agree with calboy on the government.

But all in all this thread is rather ridiculous. From your point of view republicans are all wrong, from their point of view democrats are all wrong. The fact of the matter is that both sides have valid criticisms and valid points to make. Making a sweeping generalization either way does no good. It to reinforce rigid political ideologies and foster resentment toward "the other guys".
Did you read the article?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:30 PM   #24
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Did you read the article?
Don't need to
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:40 PM   #25
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You also don't want a system that makes it too easy to pass laws either.
Easily passed laws would be [theoretically] easily fixed.

But thanks for the clarification of the British system.

I definitely don't know as much as I should about the other governments out there.
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