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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:26 PM   #51
Russell L
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Couldn't this all have been avoided had the guy at the Genius Bar realized the full extent of the problem and simply ordered a repair/replacement? Do they have that much discretion?
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by soundguyami View Post
Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration?
This sounds awfully similar to the silly and irrelevant arguments that the lawyers used during the court case.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
This.

I wonder what is going on with other vendors regarding this.
I was asked to look at a friends HP laptop with one of the affected GPU's and found out about this issue because of it (bios beeps suggested dead GPU). Did a quick search and found that HP in the US were were repairing affected units, HP UK however were not interested one bit when the owner called them.

I'm not sure if she could have pushed HP into repairing the faulty laptop but she gave up in the end and bought a new (non HP) laptop.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:29 PM   #54
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For the record...

I had a custom 2008 15" Pro and it failed last October. My Applecare had run out 2 months before. But I took it in and they identified the Nvidia problem and fixed and I had it back in less than 2 days. No questions asked, free of charge. Previously, the same computer had a blue striping issue on the left side of the screen, and under Applecare was fixed with a new screen within an hour. I've had great luck with Apple both with and without Applecare, just so everyone knows that there are flip sides to the story.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:30 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by soundguyami View Post
Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.
What a monumental amount of nonsense. So what you're saying is a high end laptop, by design, will fail, especially if people "put more in" than the baseline configuration? Why do you think Apple offers customization, for poop and giggles? Do you now realize how ridiculous your post is?

When I did corporate IT for a design firm all we bought were the top-end, maxed out Apple laptops. That's what they're for: Serious work. I will also note we had a near 80% failure rate on the MacBook Pros with those particular NVidia GPUs, but probably thanks to our corporate rep at Apple we got excellent service and swift replacements. Helps when you're spending mid-six-fugures a year on Apple gear. I miss that job, it was fun unboxing all that stuff.

Last edited by cateye; Apr 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Edits to avoid MacRumors nonsensically juvenile language filter.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:30 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
So a BTO system isn't covered?
Perhaps not. Often their 'quality program' repairs are based on an unacceptable number of whatever from a particular batch going bad. a BTO system might not have used that batch. They would know the serials that used those parts.

Also from reading his blog it sounds like he went in screaming that they needed to give him a whole new machine because his GPU which might have been fine, was the same kind as one that a batch had an issue. That's not how the game works. You don't get a brand new machine because one part is perhaps bad.

Also, when he took the machine in with an issue it wasn't the GPU but the logic board, which didn't have a quality program and his Apple Care was expired. But he decided to yell and scream that no they are idiots and lying that it was the logic board, he is an expert and he knows that the whole thing was from the GPU they didn't replace when he told them to give him a new machine some 2 years before. etc.

If the tone of his blog, which reads like he acted like a screaming asshat, is even close to the truth then I can see why Apple Care, Customer relations etc kept saying no to him. He was asking for things that are not part of the terms of the system. Truth is that this judge was possibly in the wrong because he didn't have all the facts regarding why the program existed etc but since it was just small claims court which maxes out at like $10k if that much, Apple wasn't likely to really care that much. If someone tries to use this case as precedent they can still bring out the big guns of the full facts.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:32 PM   #57
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Good news: Apple replaced the logic board…

Apple quickly and painlessly replaced the logic board on my 15" Mid 2007 MacBook Pro after my 250 MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT GPU failed in early 2012 — no questions asked!

I had purchased it used, and the 3-year AppleCare warranty had long expired.

It's been running LION and working like a charm ever since!
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:32 PM   #58
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I used to work in HP laptop warranty repair. On a weekly basis our policies on these kinds of things would change. One day we would come in and say, screen dimness was an automatic repair. Then they'd run the numbers on how many screens they were down, and next week it would be only if approved. Then we'd ship a dim laptop back and the customer turned out to be Mr. Important sue your ass off and we were back to replacing all dim screens again.

Another thing we did was fix these boards. They had solder masters who would literally replace chips on the board. The boards they fixed would go in a pile, the boards in that pile would go back in your laptop. Warranty repair: ain't it grand? Maybe nVidia's deal only covered these kinds of repairs, not all new boards? Not sure. Like I said above, these kinds of policies changed seemingly weekly.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:34 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer View Post
And here a couple of bored lawyers thought they'd squish someone in small claims court to pass the time, and it's being read about by millions on the internet.
Lawyers didn't make that decision. Apple did.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:34 PM   #60
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My 2008 MBP suffered from the video card issue, though it lasted beyond the warranty and since there were a few minor dents in the casing when I brought it to an Apple Store they would not honor the free card replacement. They did do the blanket logic board + video card replacement for a few hundred dollars, which was my only reasonable option, but the agreement for this makes clear that this would only be guaranteed for a few months (IIRC) and furthermore rendered Apple immune from any other claims against them with that laptop for any reason, video card related or not.

The other option without this (normal video card replacement in my case) would have been too close to the price of a new MBP.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:35 PM   #61
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i'm sorry but in my eyes it is normal that if your warranty has passed, that they don't fix it anymore for free.

Not really hard to understand that to be honest.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by soundguyami View Post
Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.
It's none of your business why he wanted a laptop with this configuration. Common sense? Please.

If Apple built it - they need to stand behind it. Period. That's not common sense - that's business sense.

There was nothing wrong with this suit being brought into a courtroom by the plaintiff.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:36 PM   #63
superego
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People are finally starting to realize that Apple is not that virtuous company it advertises to be.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by fixmymac View Post
Macs are premium products that should come with premium service/support. If i own a top-of-the-range BMW M5, and i have a major problem with it, i expect my dealership to jump through hoops to satisfy me.
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with your post, Apple probably should have replaced the laptop even though it was out of warranty...

But your comparrison is flawed.. I garauntee you if your BMW is out of waranty and it has a problem, you will see a hefty repair bill.

Premium products does not mean it comes with premium service/support, usually you have to pay for an extended warranty for that. Most companies would probably do the same as Apple did. Although this is a special case cause it was a known issue that nVidia was paying to fix, so Apple should have just avoided this by fixing it (Although it kind of seems like the guys problem was he wanted a whole new laptop which I could see Apple fighting)

The real thing here people should realize is that this is a rare case for Apple customer support, most of the time they are willing to help someone out with and out of warranty product for free (including replacing devices).

The fact is this laptop was 3 years old... a lot of use and wear and tear can happen to a computer in 3 years, especially a Laptop. Theres a chance something besides the graphics chipped was dead.

Either way, this guy did not deserve to get enough money to buy a new laptop, he merely should have one enough to cover repairs. This really makes it seem like he refused repairs and sued because they wouldnt let him return is macbook for a full refund or replacement.

Again, I dont think Apple was in the right here, but its doubtful any company woudl have handled it any differently.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:38 PM   #65
charlituna
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Originally Posted by Russell L View Post
Couldn't this all have been avoided had the guy at the Genius Bar realized the full extent of the problem and simply ordered a repair/replacement? Do they have that much discretion?
According to this gentleman they said the problem with the logic board, which is not the same as the GPU in this case it seems, and that the logic board isn't covered by the program and he would have to pay for that repair since he wasn't under Apple Care anymore. And he screamed they were wrong, his logic board was fine and they were lying to not have to replace his GPU like they should have all along. And then he filed his court case.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:38 PM   #66
adamryan1983
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This guy sounds like a baby. Seems like he was just trying to be devils advocate and get money for nothing. They offered to replace the broken parts for him but he thought he would get another defective part. Some people need to grow up.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:42 PM   #67
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I'm sure that will be a top priority in the next congressional session.

As soon as they finish the legislation to round up and transfer all American users of the PirateBay to Guantanamo.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:42 PM   #68
tomhut
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Im siding with Apple on this one - from what I can tell, the Apple where unable to verify the reason the machine had failed was because of the GPU, in-fact it looks lightly that the GPU was not faulty and it was another component on the logic board, and in this case would be unable to claim the cost of the repair back from NVidia. Also, to my knowledge, the replacement logic boards are of a new revision (rev B), so the GPU shouldn't suffer from the same issue.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:43 PM   #69
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This isn't the apple I know :/
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by musicpaladin View Post
When I asked why it wouldn't be covered even though clearly all the symptoms matched a failed NVIDIA board, they said basically what this article said, with a further explantation of why Apple can't just cover it - that they don't pay for the replacement, that NVIDIA does, but that in order to get reimbursement from NVIDIA they HAVE to get a code returned first. Whether this is true or a wad of crap is anyone's guess.
This is absolutely true. In order to be reimbursed by Nvidia for the repair, the Genius MUST run the GPT3T108 test booted from an external USB hard drive. If the machine fails this test, it gives a code to include with the repair order. Without this code, Nvidia will not cover the repair. The test suite will still run even if the display will no longer work (diagnostic flashes are sent to the sleep light indicator).

The catch 22 is if the GPU has failed to the point it will no longer boot, you are completely out of luck as they cannot boot from the external disk. You will be told that Depot repair is your only option.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:44 PM   #71
Tinyluph
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Originally Posted by charlieegan3 View Post
chances are apple knew this would result in bad publicity, I doubt there was a lack of planning on apples part.

Also apples lawyers seem to do quite a lot of work (loads of ongoing cases), can't see why they would be board?
There would be no publicity had they just replaced it...
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:46 PM   #72
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They have to train their lawyers somehow ^^ Winter is coming
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:46 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Zeromancer View Post
i'm sorry but in my eyes it is normal that if your warranty has passed, that they don't fix it anymore for free.

Not really hard to understand that to be honest.
There is a repair program that is still valid that covers his machine (even though they tried to argue it didn't), which provides for repairs at no cost for 4 years from the purchase date, because of a manufacturing defect from NVIDIA. It was just short of an actual product recall, and that only because not every chip was affected.

That said, I almost can't believe this. I've replaced probably 50-60 of these logic boards for people with the same issue, some of which were the exact same model that he had (not many, because they weren't as common, but a few). Apple never once balked at the replacement. I have to wonder if there's something we haven't heard about why. Not saying it was right, of course.

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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:47 PM   #74
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Silly Strategy

I totally agree that Apple ought to have replaced this even though his computer was outside of AppleCare with this defective card: but if I was a Genius, I would laugh in the customer's face when he said his $4500 computer ought to last more than 3 years. Just because you paid a lot of money doesn't mean that your computer will last longer. It's still all silicone and motors and thousand-mile-an-hour disks. Want to spend less on computers? Buy one for 1500 every three years instead (and sell your old one).
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:47 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mcdermd View Post
This is absolutely true. In order to be reimbursed by Nvidia for the repair, the Genius MUST run the GPT3T108 test booted from an external USB hard drive. If the machine fails this test, it gives a code to include with the repair order. Without this code, Nvidia will not cover the repair. The test suite will still run even if the display will no longer work (diagnostic flashes are sent to the sleep light indicator).

The catch 22 is if the GPU has failed to the point it will no longer boot, you are completely out of luck as they cannot boot from the external disk. You will be told that Depot repair is your only option.
This makes more sense to me. I had to run similar tests at HP. We would tear the laptops apart the try to isolate the boards, bend, wiggle, cool, do whatever it took to get some stupid program to give us a green light to replace the board. Otherwise, unless they had extended coverage, it was shipped back to the customer (with a bricked hard drive for their trouble).
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