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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:49 PM   #26
throAU
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I thought ZFS was no longer and option after the whole Sun being bought out by Oracle thing...(I'd love it if it did become available).
ZFS is available as open source, up to v28 (which includes compression and de-dupe).

Openindiana (what became of opensolaris) and FreeBSD both use it. Both are free operating systems, and the license for ZFS v28 is compatible with what apple would want to do with it.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:50 PM   #27
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ZFS is available as open source, up to v28 (which includes compression and de-dupe).

Openindiana (what became of opensolaris) and FreeBSD both use it. Both are free operating systems, and the license for ZFS v28 is compatible with what apple would want to do with it.
Nice! Thanks for the info
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
ZFS is available as open source, up to v28 (which includes compression and de-dupe).

Openindiana (what became of opensolaris) and FreeBSD both use it. Both are free operating systems, and the license for ZFS v28 is compatible with what apple would want to do with it.

I stand corrected, thanks as well!
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:53 PM   #29
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Pretty much, but like you, I would love to have ZFS as a file system. It is a solid...
http://tenscomplement.com/

Ex Apple engineers that worked on the ZFS for Mac projected before it was killed.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:54 PM   #30
throAU
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That said, the major benefits of ZFS come when you have multiple disks, which most apple machines DONT have :-\

It can use SSD for cache, it can do checksums to ensure your data is not corrupt, but without more than 1 disk (either for a mirror or RAIDZ) it can't fix data errors (unless you tell it to write data to the same disk multiple times in multiple places, which kills performance).

Whilst apple COULD use ZFS, given their focus i'm not sure they'd bother. There is a company offering a version of ZFS for mac right now though, the name of which escapes me...


edit:
link to said company above...
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:55 PM   #31
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Because I can log in and see that it is not Beta.
Windows 8 Server - Beta
Visual Studio 11 - Beta
Windows 8 - Consumer Preview

There is a difference.

This is neither here nor there, we were talking about Mountain Lion and how they have failed to fix Lion.
I'm not going to argue with you. But it's BETA, it was renamed and there will NEVER BE a build called Windows 8 Beta, becase It was renamed to Consumer Preview, the next build will be called Release Preview, which is renamed Release Candidate.

I dont mean to be rude here, but your just ignoring what I'm trying to say. And it's really annoying, just google and you will see that it was renamed. Even typing it up google "windows 8 beta" will link the the Consumer Preview download from the microsoft website and qoute Wikipedia:
On 29 February 2012, Microsoft released Windows 8 Consumer Preview, the beta version of Windows 8, build 8250.

Like talking to a child that doesn't listen. They renamed it to be different, think about it. Beta is another meaning for a build aimed to be previewed for CONSUMERS.

Last edited by Lunfai; Apr 19, 2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 02:10 AM   #32
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I was impressed by Lion's feature set, ML seems relatively boring to me. I mean, seriously, Notes and Reminders is one of the headline features?! Two features that already exist and have merely been moved to their own applications now?
I was pretty annoyed when I noticed you have to have them separate, there is no way (that I know of) to keep notes in Mail and notifications in the calendar. It's like taking a step back, not forward. Since installing ML, I have barely used notifications. And I use them all the time in Lion...
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 02:49 AM   #33
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I was pretty annoyed when I noticed you have to have them separate, there is no way (that I know of) to keep notes in Mail and notifications in the calendar. It's like taking a step back, not forward. Since installing ML, I have barely used notifications. And I use them all the time in Lion...
Notes in Mail and Notifications in Calendar were somewhat confusing to many. I suppose many people like you preferred it that way but a lot of people wanted them separate but prior Mountain Lion the system used IMAP and CalDAV to sync this info which bolted them to their respective services.

iCloud sets them free though it will be an adjustment for some.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 05:19 AM   #34
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Notes in Mail and Notifications in Calendar were somewhat confusing to many. I suppose many people like you preferred it that way but a lot of people wanted them separate but prior Mountain Lion the system used IMAP and CalDAV to sync this info which bolted them to their respective services.

iCloud sets them free though it will be an adjustment for some.
I absolutely see the point in having them as separate apps, not everyone uses their mail application or calendar. I just feel like they could've kept the option of integration for those who liked it
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 06:47 AM   #35
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To me, Mountain Lion is for Lion what Windows 7 was for Vista. It's just... Better. In a word, ItFeelsSnappier
Yeah but the problem is 2007 and older intel macs with windows 7 are more robust, faster and reliable machines (I never thought I d be saying this btw about ms in my wildest dreams and I 've a mac user for more than 10 years) than the ones with lion, and mountain lion won't run on these machines. Windows 7 did manage to reduce the resources it required and be a better os and run on machines that vista had made a dog of. Apple either wants you to run these macs on two os versions back or stick with lion. Shameful.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
http://tenscomplement.com/

Ex Apple engineers that worked on the ZFS for Mac projected before it was killed.
Why would apple keep their talented engineers working on the file system when they can hire such great lawyers these days.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 07:07 AM   #36
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I'm not going to argue with you.
Ok, then why are you?

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Originally Posted by Lunfai View Post

I dont mean to be rude here, but your just ignoring what I'm trying to say. And it's really annoying, just google and you will see that it was renamed. Even typing it up google "windows 8 beta" will link the the Consumer Preview download from the microsoft website and qoute Wikipedia:
On 29 February 2012, Microsoft released Windows 8 Consumer Preview, the beta version of Windows 8, build 8250.

Like talking to a child that doesn't listen. They renamed it to be different, think about it. Beta is another meaning for a build aimed to be previewed for CONSUMERS.
So you don't mean to be rude but then you go and do it anyway. Nice...

Call it what you want, but if you type in Windows 8 Beta you will get driven to the Windows 8 page but nowhere on that page does it say BETA. There is no release date given on the OS yet as it is still getting significant changes, and Beta products don't get significant changes, they only get small bug tweaks just before release. Just because other people are using the word Beta does not mean that it is. I have tested many Beta products for MS and I am a C# developer so my world revolves around it. It will have a Beta cycle to work out the left over bugs, although it will likely be shortened, but for now they are still making lots of changes to how the OS works. It is more of a pre-beta stage than beta.

So, that is my OPINION and I am ENTITLED to it. If you don't like it then move on but your name calling is starting to get irritating.

Last edited by wpotere; Apr 20, 2012 at 07:27 AM.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 08:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by wpotere View Post
...
Call it what you want, but if you type in Windows 8 Beta you will get driven to the Windows 8 page but nowhere on that page does it say BETA. There is no release date given on the OS yet as it is still getting significant changes, and Beta products don't get significant changes, they only get small bug tweaks just before release.
...
So that makes it an Alpha Test release?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hafr View Post
I was pretty annoyed when I noticed you have to have them separate, there is no way (that I know of) to keep notes in Mail and notifications in the calendar. It's like taking a step back, not forward. Since installing ML, I have barely used notifications. And I use them all the time in Lion...
The problem with Notes in Mail was that it tied it to a particular mail account. But my notes have nothing to do with mail. So for some people, tying Notes and Mail together was kind of stupid.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:27 AM   #38
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Ok, then why are you?



So you don't mean to be rude but then you go and do it anyway. Nice...

Call it what you want, but if you type in Windows 8 Beta you will get driven to the Windows 8 page but nowhere on that page does it say BETA. There is no release date given on the OS yet as it is still getting significant changes, and Beta products don't get significant changes, they only get small bug tweaks just before release. Just because other people are using the word Beta does not mean that it is. I have tested many Beta products for MS and I am a C# developer so my world revolves around it. It will have a Beta cycle to work out the left over bugs, although it will likely be shortened, but for now they are still making lots of changes to how the OS works. It is more of a pre-beta stage than beta.

So, that is my OPINION and I am ENTITLED to it. If you don't like it then move on but your name calling is starting to get irritating.
Yes because you can't read. I've stated facts and given a source yet you still have a opinion that is wrong, I stated it nicely before, but you were too ignorant. But I'm just going to leave it.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:13 AM   #39
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-This color is called egg white.
-No, it's called off white!
-Egg white!
-Off white!
-Egg white!

Geez...
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:25 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
What would blow you away?

Jobs said "people don't know what they want until you show it to them"

Everyone wants to be blown away but for the life me they can never state what features are missing that would blow them away.

I think it's because these people are expecting a fantasy. It's easy to sit back and dream about features that are Earth Shattering when you don't have to take them into the context of reality.

I think software development mirrors the evolution of life. It's primarily step-by-step iteration and every now and then it take a larger jump forward.

To me Mountain Lion represents the second act of the OS before we precede to that larger jump (which I view as cloud centric personal networks where we all have a surprising amount of mobile and desktop/notebook devices)
I agree almost completely. There's just a couple things I know I want, both Linux features:

*A built-in, Mac equivalent to Wine

*The ability to have both a command-line and GUI login going on at once.

Other than that, I think Mountain Lion is amazing.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:26 AM   #41
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Yes because you can't read. I've stated facts and given a source yet you still have a opinion that is wrong, I stated it nicely before, but you were too ignorant. But I'm just going to leave it.
LOL, you haven't done a thing except run your mouth and you did not post any source at all, just your own opinion or someone elses. Once again, nice try. My information comes from MSDN.

Once again, I am tired of the name calling. If I continues, I will report it. Learn how to have a debate without putting people down. Lastly, it is clear that you can't "leave it" without having the last word.


@Bear - It is like I stated earlier, a pre-beta release. There are still many significant changes being made to it based off of feedback they are getting. In a beta release, this is not the case and only small bugs are fleshed out. Calling it beta is a bad idea as it gives people the impression that this is the final version that will be going live and that is not the case. This is the reason that I have an issue with what Lunfai is posting. The product is still being developed and the release was to get some feedback from the community, nothing more.

Last edited by wpotere; Apr 20, 2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by D-a-a-n View Post
I only have one apple device, a MBP:

As I see it, the "new" "top" "features" are:

- iCloud -> yeah..don't have an iPhone
- Messages -> i'm sorry everybody is on facebook chat nowadays..
- Reminders + Notes + Notification Center -> have already applications for that
- airPlay -> sorry don't own a appleTV
- twitter + share sheets -> <sarcasm> waw.. must've taken them a full year to implement that one.. </sarcasm
- gamecenter -> *cough* steam

So, what are the big features for people who don't own iDevices? Any under the hood speed improvements? When will they split iTunes into 3 apps?

Sorry for ranting!
I've sent an email to Tim Cook for you to stop their forward strategy of integrating the devices they sell because you only have a mac and use 3rd party apps.

I'm sure he'll tell me to **** off but i'll keep you posted.


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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:50 AM   #43
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What the hell is this argument even about? Consumer Preview is just another name for Beta. It is still prerelease software and it even features the "Beta fish" from the Windows 7 Beta.

Developer Preview = Alpha

Consumer Preview = Beta

Release Preview = Release Candidate

It's just simplifying the names.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 12:28 PM   #44
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What the hell is this argument even about? Consumer Preview is just another name for Beta. It is still prerelease software and it even features the "Beta fish" from the Windows 7 Beta.

Developer Preview = Alpha

Consumer Preview = Beta

Release Preview = Release Candidate

It's just simplifying the names.
He thinks consumer preview is not beta. I've decided to just ignore him now on. But he doesn't understand the term of beta that is labeled to software. Beta is not final. Oh well.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 12:52 PM   #45
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He thinks consumer preview is not beta. I've decided to just ignore him now on. But he doesn't understand the term of beta that is labeled to software. Beta is not final. Oh well.
Oh so that's what this is about. Yeah I read somewhere that they just use the "Consumer Preview" name now because the average person will understand it much more than "beta".
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 03:32 PM   #46
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He thinks consumer preview is not beta. I've decided to just ignore him now on. But he doesn't understand the term of beta that is labeled to software. Beta is not final. Oh well.
As a developer I understand it very well, clearly you don't. I'm done trying to educate you folks. I have been dealing with Windows 8 long before you got your hands on it and know exactly where it is at. As I said, my information comes from MSDN not some other web site and certainly not from you guys.

Enjoy...
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 03:50 PM   #47
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Oh so that's what this is about. Yeah I read somewhere that they just use the "Consumer Preview" name now because the average person will understand it much more than "beta".
Yeah, I told him earlier. I love Windows 8, I actually think the ability to mount ISO's without any third party software is hecka useful, and I welcome the metro for tablets, as it's totally different from using from within a desktop and it's actually pretty solid to me. I'm not slating Windows in any way, I love both Apple and Microsoft.

And one last reply, to you wp. I don't care that you have MSDN, they don't exactly give a whole lot more information about Windows 8 then I couldn't get from the internet. You probably used the leaked M3 builds and think your god. Can you check the road map on Windows 8, you'll see that the next planned public build is Release Preview (Release Candidate renamed) and it's going to hit gold in Mid-2012.

How would you explain the BETTA fish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betta) from the start up of Windows 8 Build 250 also? It just can't wrap my head, that you think it's not the beta build...

But this time, I'm just going to leave it. (but give you sources).

Source #1: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/17/wi...ified-renamed/
Source #2: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...-preview/11716
Source #3: http://gamingumar.blogspot.co.uk/201...-consumer.html
Source #4: http://www.windowsgadget.net/widgets...nload-news/830
Source #5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8

Last edited by Lunfai; Apr 20, 2012 at 03:55 PM.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 05:23 PM   #48
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Nothing much.

Apple seems to be moving to a "tick tock" system with their OS. Lion was a "tick", with fundamental technology improvements. ML was a "tock", with apps taking advantage of those improvements.

The problem is, the "tick" is one which enables 3rd party apps to take advantage of iCloud, versions, autosave, etc. There's really no huge advantages in the "tock", unless you use Apple's inbuilt apps a lot. So it's basically just a facelift, unless you are a heavy user of Apple's built-in productivity stuff.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 09:26 PM   #49
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One thing that people tend to forget is that Lion was the first OS X that was delivered without new/updated Carbon API. In fact Carbon is dead as far as ongoing development.

So this means that plenty of older Carbon API are going to be deprecated over a few OS X versions and get replaced with new Cocoa frameworks.

Carbon still exists in even Mountain Lion but it's going to slowly wither away. This is good because we should see more rapid advancement of the platform from an architectural standpoint. Apple is no longer juggling a duopoly of API.

It's not sexy but one day your app will do something cool and you won't realize that that feature was enabled because of this underlaying unification.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 09:56 PM   #50
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While I don't own an i-Device, I'm actually looking forward to Mountain Lion. To me it isn't just the big advertised features, but the small-little tweaks. Look at the "All the Little Things Thread". The biggest advertised feature that I am eager to use is Game Center, Steam is more for the hardcore gamer and the games are very expensive. Game Center as I see it, is geared more towards the casual user. I can't wait to be able to play games with friends on iOS devices because I haven't been able to in the past.
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