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Old Feb 2, 2013, 06:53 AM   #501
Killerbob
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So please enlighten me;

What would I get IN ADDITION to a boot screen, buying your Nvidea GTX570 over for instance an EVGA GTX680 Superclocked?

- The GTX680 would fit in the Mac Pro, actually it uses less power (and uses 2x6-pin),
- The GTX680 works fine in a Mac Pro, and has native driver support in Mountain Lion,
- The GTX680 is significantly faster, in some areas twice as fast,
- The EVGA GTX680 is priced at USD480.

The boot screen is nice, and it is fantastic you have figured out how to do it, but charging that much for the privileged, and still getting a much slower card is what I call a loose-loose situation (for the buyer).

BTW - a non-modded GTX570 w. 2.5GB RAM will currently only cost you USD350 (if you can find one).
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 07:00 AM   #502
MacVidCards
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You should probably do some research.

Start with "CUDA"

Then read about PCIE 2.0 in Windows...something a GTX680 can't do on a Mac Pro but our 570s can.

BTW, maybe you mean "lose" instead of "loose"?
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:04 AM   #503
Killerbob
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Do you mean the fact that a single GTX570 card has 480 Cuda cores, and the GTX680 has 1536, and I know the speed didn't increase linearly, but more is usually better

I know about the PCIE2.0 in Windows on the GTX570, but at most this advantage gives a few percentage (and yes, XP is the exception). However, the most prevalent reason for a Mac user to use Windows is gaming, and don't even mention that, because in gaming the GTX680 blows the GTX570 out of the water...

And you're right; English is not my native language, and I misspelled "lose" - Kudos to you for figuring that out...
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:39 AM   #504
xcodeSyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbob View Post
Do you mean the fact that a single GTX570 card has 480 Cuda cores, and the GTX680 has 1536, and I know the speed didn't increase linearly, but more is usually better
Not quite in this case, here's some quote from this link:

Quote:
Because NVIDIA has essentially traded a fewer number of higher clocked units for a larger number of lower clocked units, NVIDIA had to go in and double the size of each functional unit inside their SM. Whereas a block of 16 CUDA cores would do when there was a shader clock, now a full 32 CUDA cores are necessary. The same is true for the load/store units and the special function units, all of which have been doubled in size in order to adjust for the lack of a shader clock. Consequently, this is why we canít just immediately compare the CUDA core count of GK104 and GF114 and call GK104 4 times as powerful; half of that additional hardware is just to make up for the lack of a shader clock.
The compute performance of GTX 680 lagging behind the 580 or even 570 is demonstrated here. This is why in the sticky thread, it recommends the GTX 680 for gaming, and GTX 570 for CUDA performance.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:06 PM   #505
Killerbob
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OK, so in some rare situtions the GTX570/580 CUDA performance might be faster than the GTX680. However, in summary, from those tests (GTX570/580 vs. GTX680):

Crysis - +1 for GTX680 in all situations
Metro - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Dirt - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Total War - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Batman - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Portal - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Battlefield - +1 for GTX680 in all situations, and significantly so
Starcraft - +1 for GTX680 in all situations
Elder Scrolls - +1 for GTX680 in all situations
Civ - +1 for GTX680 in all situations
Compute - +1 for GTX580 (not GTX570), and barely
SmallLuxGPU - +1 for GTX570/580, and significantly so
AESEncryptDecrypt - +1 for GTX580 (not GTX570), and barely
PrimeGrid - +1 for GTX570/580, and significantly so
DirectX11 Compute Shader - +1 for GTX680, and significantly so
3DMark Vantage Pixel - +1 for GTX680, and significantly so
3DMark Vantage Texture - +1 for GTX680, and significantly so
DirectX11 Tessellation Normal - +1 for GTX580 (not GTX570), and barely
DirectX11 Tessellation Max - +1 for GTX680, and significantly so
Inigine Heaven - +1 for GTX680, and significantly so

That's a performance score of... let me see... +15 points to GTX680, and let me see... +3 to GTX580, and let me see... +2 points for GTX570.

Then there is the significantly more power efficient and cooler GTX680, and AnandTechs final words; "this (GTX680) is by far the easiest recommendation we’ve been able to make for an NVIDIA flagship video card. NVIDIA’s drive for efficiency has paid off handsomely, and as a result they have once again captured the single-GPU performance crown."

Add to that the price premium to get the GTX570, and there is no doubt that the best graphics card for a Mac Pro is the GTX680, if you don't want to worry about having to add a second PSU, and you can live without the boot screen.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 04:24 PM   #506
Photovore
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It looks as if you may be primarily interested in running games. If so, then uhuh, get that 680; just be sure to avoid the 8-pin connector.

I have no interest in games, but depend heavily on OpenCL. At the moment my 5870 is adequate, but when I upgrade I'm going to get a 570; I think it might double my framerate.

It seems that the architecture of the 680 was crippled OpenCL-wise (CUDA-wise too?) in favor of gaming. Supposedly, to drive sales of the Quadros. Plenty of discussion exists online regarding that. Don't know if it's conclusive. May have to buy one of each to be sure!...
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 04:51 PM   #507
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EVGA GTX-670 FTW 4GB just plain out of the box, NO voltage/Mhz tweaks!
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 12:59 PM   #508
xcodeSyn
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Originally Posted by Photovore View Post
May have to buy one of each to be sure!...
Recently got an MSI GTX 570 for $189, a refurb with 90-day warranty from here (there is still one left in case anyone interested). Ran the LuxMark and got one point more than this one, an MSI GTX 680 with 4GB VRAM. I don't really care for any benchmark, but for only 1/3 cost of the current top dogs and has similar OpenCL performance is good enough for my intended usage.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 01:19 PM   #509
Asgorath
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Originally Posted by Killerbob View Post
OK, so in some rare situtions the GTX570/580 CUDA performance might be faster than the GTX680. However, in summary, from those tests (GTX570/580 vs. GTX680):
Right, those are all gaming tests. If you want to play games, get the 680. If you care more about Adobe apps like Premiere or Photoshop, which make heavy use of CUDA to accelerate tasks, then you'll be much more interested in the 570.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 02:38 PM   #510
Killerbob
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They were not all gaming tests, but that's OK, I am upgrading from my Radeon 5870 to the GTX680 for gaming purposes...

I understand now that the CUDA performance is somewhat better on the GTX570, than on the GTX680. I assume that is especially in graphics applications, like Adobe CS6.

To take advantage of these CUDA cores in OSX10.8.2, what "special" drivers will have to loaded, or changes have to be made?

Is it simply loading the CUDA drive 5.0.36? Will I have to make any changes in the CS applications?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:31 AM   #511
mm9
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GPU for Mac PRO Early 2008 A1186 MacPro3,1

I need urgent help from one or few of you please. I type this from my friends mac and I am in a hurry.

My Mac PRO Early 2008 A1186 MacPro3,1 has a graphic card failure.

My previous card was 180-10393-0002-b00 which is
Nvidia Geforce 8800 Gt 512mb Gddr3 Pci-express Video Graphics Card

This card is most probably broken and I need a new one.

Preferably that should work out of the box and be possible to get NEW and good quality. My Mac Pro is an office computer without high graphic demands. If flashing is required then I will probably manage to do it on someone else's pc.

I use bootcamp a lot and I need to be able to see EFI boot screen and have full functionality.

Which is the best GPU I can find NEW nowadays and have working out of the box?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:34 AM   #512
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by mm9 View Post
I need urgent help from one or few of you please. I type this from my friends mac and I am in a hurry.

My Mac PRO Early 2008 A1186 MacPro3,1 has a graphic card failure.

My previous card was 180-10393-0002-b00 which is
Nvidia Geforce 8800 Gt 512mb Gddr3 Pci-express Video Graphics Card

This card is most probably broken and I need a new one.

Preferably that should work out of the box and be possible to get NEW and good quality. My Mac Pro is an office computer without high graphic demands. If flashing is required then I will probably manage to do it on someone else's pc.

I use bootcamp a lot and I need to be able to see EFI boot screen and have full functionality.

Which is the best GPU I can find NEW nowadays and have working out of the box?
They 2 Apple GPU's (5870/5770)

You can flash a 5870, 5770, 6870, 6850 if my recollection is correct
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:37 AM   #513
mm9
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
They 2 Apple GPU's (5870/5770)

You can flash a 5870, 5770, 6870, 6850 if my recollection is correct
Which means there is no PC card which would work out of a box?

Thanks for the tip. I will try to google more about it.

Anyone else willing to participate and knowing which is the best choice for me?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:44 AM   #514
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by mm9 View Post
Which means there is no PC card which would work out of a box?

Thanks for the tip. I will try to google more about it.

Anyone else willing to participate and knowing which is the best choice for me?
Not with boot screens

MacVidCards sells modified one that will you can look him up on ebay.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:52 AM   #515
mm9
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
Not with boot screens

MacVidCards sells modified one that will you can look him up on ebay.
Thanks for another tip. I am in Europe and I need it fast. Trying to search more on flashing easily available cards or buying apple version ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB for 250 euro ;(
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:54 AM   #516
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by mm9 View Post
Thanks for another tip. I am in Europe and I need it fast. Trying to search more on flashing easily available cards or buying apple version ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB for 250 euro ;(
I'm in europe too..

Yes my self esteem took a hit but I just bought an Apple 5770 for that much too..

**edit** I just sent you a PM

Last edited by GermanyChris; Feb 11, 2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:43 AM   #517
warlockosx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm9 View Post
I need urgent help from one or few of you please. I type this from my friends mac and I am in a hurry.

My Mac PRO Early 2008 A1186 MacPro3,1 has a graphic card failure.

My previous card was 180-10393-0002-b00 which is
Nvidia Geforce 8800 Gt 512mb Gddr3 Pci-express Video Graphics Card

This card is most probably broken and I need a new one.

Preferably that should work out of the box and be possible to get NEW and good quality. My Mac Pro is an office computer without high graphic demands. If flashing is required then I will probably manage to do it on someone else's pc.

I use bootcamp a lot and I need to be able to see EFI boot screen and have full functionality.

Which is the best GPU I can find NEW nowadays and have working out of the box?
I have the same MacPro. ASUS GTX680 working out of the box since ML 10.8.2. In 10.8.3 working with native drivers. You will need two 6-pin power cords (I got it on e-bay for 10$ per item with delivery to Ukraine). No boot screen, but changing boot drive in system preferences works for me.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 09:15 AM   #518
mm9
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Originally Posted by warlockosx View Post
I have the same MacPro. ASUS GTX680 working out of the box since ML 10.8.2. In 10.8.3 working with native drivers. You will need two 6-pin power cords (I got it on e-bay for 10$ per item with delivery to Ukraine). No boot screen, but changing boot drive in system preferences works for me.
Is front white light flashing after connecting this asus?
Do you get apple startup chime?

I have tried few different gpus in my Mac Pro but front light is still flashing and gpu card fan running at full speed. No other lights inside and other fans quiet. No apple sound at start.

I am trying new radeon hd 6870 xfx. Do I need 2 cables 6 pins each or 1 cable is enough for moderate use?
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 09:18 AM   #519
initialsBB
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Originally Posted by warlockosx View Post
No boot screen, but changing boot drive in system preferences works for me.
I prefer the BootChamp utility as that isn't a persistent change, as in any cold boot or reboot goes straight back to OS X by default.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:20 PM   #520
meddinstudios
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660Ti vs GTX570

Really great thread going here guys. Thanks for all the input, it has been invaluable.

Anyone had luck benchmarking 660Ti vs 570 (1.2 or 2.5GB)? Or even 660 (non Ti)?

660 3GB - $250
660Ti 2GB - $300
660Ti 3GB - $350

I currently have GTX480 from Macvidcards which works flawlessly in 4,1 MP running 10.6.8 and now 10.8.2. I did clean install of ML with the card mounted, then installed latest CUDA. No other drivers needed and it boots with full speed. I run it with a SW RAID and get great performance in Davinci with 5K Red footage paired with a Rocket. The problem is I can't add more than a Rocket because it is taxing power supply.

I need to finish at least 3 more systems, so I was looking at snagging 1.2GB GTX570 but it seems Davinci is having issues with anything less than 1.8GB? Is this with or without rocket? I also have a GT120 (also from MVC) that has been sitting until I get a lower wattage card in there.

Could a 660 or 660Ti fill those shoes? I can't find any 2.5GB 570 readily available other than those going for a premium on ebay and to me at this point it seems worth it just to spend as much or less on a 660Ti. Thoughts?

Last edited by meddinstudios; Feb 12, 2013 at 02:42 PM.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:09 AM   #521
warlockosx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm9 View Post
"Is front white light flashing after connecting this asus?"

If you mean white light flashing in sleep mode - YES

"Do you get apple startup chime?

YES

I have tried few different gpus in my Mac Pro but front light is still flashing and gpu card fan running at full speed. No other lights inside and other fans quiet. No apple sound at start.

I am trying new radeon hd 6870 xfx. Do I need 2 cables 6 pins each or 1 cable is enough for moderate use?

About radeon cards you may need to visit netkas.org site - its not all obvious with them.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:26 AM   #522
warlockosx
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Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
I prefer the BootChamp utility as that isn't a persistent change, as in any cold boot or reboot goes straight back to OS X by default.
Only Apple reference cards show bootscreen, others (flashed or no) - doesn't

I mean, when I booting in windows (on boot camp partition) by changing the default boot drive, in windows (when I need back to OSX) I reboot by right clicking on bootcamp icon in system tray and choose menu "Reboot in OSX" - after that OSX drive became default again.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:29 AM   #523
meddinstudios
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Test Results

Got my hands on some GTX570s (1.2GB). Here is what I found in Resolve 9. Mac Pro 4,1 with 14GB RAM, 2x2.26, a 3TB SW RAID, and a 750GB HDD running OSX 10.8.2 for my first simple test machine.

This test contained the standard candle test for V9 and a RED 5K FF (7:1) clip to replace the SD footage so that I can see how well the GPU's worked with the rocket.

First, I did a clean install of 10.8.2 and then installed the latest Cuda drivers (5.0.37) and left the existing NVidia drivers alone (295.30.20f02). I was able to plug in either card with zero issues. Computer and Monitor sleep works, no boot up or kernal panics, no crashing software. They were both just plug and play and appear to be running at full speed with regards to Cuda-Z. I can't get the PCI window to work though with the GTX570 under system profile which was expected vs the MVC GTX480.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kE&usp=sharing

Summary: The GTX480 and 570 are basically neck and neck. Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 FPS difference in some areas but where one nudges ahead the other does in a different area (SD/HD vs RED and so forth). Also the single-precision numbers were 1333 vs 1393 (GTX570) in Cuda-Z.

The most interesting part to me was that I found very little performance increase once the GT120 was added as the GUI card. Maybe a 1/2 to 1 FPS bump in some areas but thats it. I will say that overall scrubbing and snappyness of playback felt smoother with the dedicated GUI card. I just couldn't measure it accurately but it was certainly there. If it came down to it though, I'd rather utilize one card and dedicate the slots to supporting RR, HBA, and a Decklink. This would also make a friendlier setup for FCX, CS6 and so forth.

It's nice to know that you can utilize a simple SW RAID and still get realtime with some heavy handed footage. I had no issues with ProRes 4x4. I'll have to try DPX and ArriRaw next.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 11:23 PM   #524
MacVidCards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warlockosx View Post
Only Apple reference cards show bootscreen, others (flashed or no) - doesn't
Have a look at the title of this thread.

Our cards all show boot screens.

It took us a GREAT deal of time to reverse engineer the firmware to make this possible.

That is why we hope people will continue to support us so that we can continue to write modified EFIs for more Nvidia cards.

I have encouraged the competition to show somw initiative and work on the AMD cards, but they have found it much easier to copy & paste our Nvidia work rather then do any R & D on their own.

I got recent word from Nvidia Quadro department that the Mac K5000 is delayed for awhile yet, so GTX6xx EFIs may be delayed as well.

But we have been working on them.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 03:50 AM   #525
nigelbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meddinstudios View Post
Got my hands on some GTX570s (1.2GB). Here is what I found in Resolve 9. Mac Pro 4,1 with 14GB RAM, 2x2.26, a 3TB SW RAID, and a 750GB HDD running OSX 10.8.2 for my first simple test machine.

This test contained the standard candle test for V9 and a RED 5K FF (7:1) clip to replace the SD footage so that I can see how well the GPU's worked with the rocket.

First, I did a clean install of 10.8.2 and then installed the latest Cuda drivers (5.0.37) and left the existing NVidia drivers alone (295.30.20f02). I was able to plug in either card with zero issues. Computer and Monitor sleep works, no boot up or kernal panics, no crashing software. They were both just plug and play and appear to be running at full speed with regards to Cuda-Z. I can't get the PCI window to work though with the GTX570 under system profile which was expected vs the MVC GTX480.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kE&usp=sharing

Summary: The GTX480 and 570 are basically neck and neck. Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 FPS difference in some areas but where one nudges ahead the other does in a different area (SD/HD vs RED and so forth). Also the single-precision numbers were 1333 vs 1393 (GTX570) in Cuda-Z.
It would be interesting to repeat the tests with the latest Nvidia drivers (304.00.05f02)
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