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Old Apr 18, 2012, 08:39 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ziggyonice View Post
tl;dr: Intel says Ultrabooks are better than MacBook Air, but the Air is an "ultrabook" — running the same Intel chips — and is basically what defined the category to begin with.
Intel states this because if they can promote the ultrabook line they'll sell more CPUs.

For all intents and purposes the hardware is going to be similar to Apple's. Some makers will produce a great laptop, some will cut corners. The distinguishing factor is the OS. Given the marketshare that apple has, its in Intel's best interest to promote this new classification of laptops.

Will they be very different then the MBA, probably not, will they run as well as the MBA - probably and will do so for less $$ (generally speaking) - other then Sony who seems to want to charge a premium for their products.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 11:28 AM   #27
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Unless they can make a trackpad that is good as Apple's they won't sell.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 11:39 AM   #28
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Unless they can make a trackpad that is good as Apple's they won't sell.
I hate using a track pad, it doesn't matter if its apple or HP or what ever. Most of my co-workers also seem to avoid that if at all possible. I'm not sure if that is a huge deciding factor.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 12:26 PM   #29
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I hate using a track pad, it doesn't matter if its apple or HP or what ever. Most of my co-workers also seem to avoid that if at all possible. I'm not sure if that is a huge deciding factor.
Really - for casual usage the trackpad is great. I'd not use it for professional work, but as a way of using gestures it's fantastic.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 12:43 PM   #30
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Unless they can make a trackpad that is good as Apple's they won't sell.
Nope. Trackpads, backlit keyboards, and SD card readers are not deal breakers for most consumers, but Apple readers and Apple reviewers can't seem to contemplate that and always point them out.

Any modern trackpad - or not so modern - works good enough for basic scrolling, clicking, and two finger zoom. Anything else is totally extra that most people either don't need or don't use.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 12:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
Nope. Trackpads, backlit keyboards, and SD card readers are not deal breakers for most consumers, but Apple readers and Apple reviewers can't seem to contemplate that and always point them out.

Any modern trackpad - or not so modern - works good enough for basic scrolling, clicking, and two finger zoom. Anything else is totally extra that most people either don't need or don't use.
Still you have to look at the fact that the Macbook Air sales are increasing exponentially year on year, while Ultrabooks are dead in the water. Notice that Asus hasn't released any sales figures.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 02:10 PM   #32
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Ultrabook or Apple's old idea?
http://kensegall.com/blog/2012/04/in...ples-old-idea/
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 03:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Probably going to have to wait until Windows 8 to see better trackpad algorithms.
It is the manufacturer's job to make their drivers work properly. That said, most OEMs don't even bother - they just use synaptics and alps electric products and include the generic driver. Sony REALLY deserves crap for that, because their trackpads are bad and they should feel bad.

MS' mouse drivers are actually pretty decent, and they don't make trackpads. They could blackmail OEMs into paying more attention by demanding a standard in trackpad quality.

It really is a problem IMHO. Now that laptop manufacturers are paying attention to tactile quality, they can make a better trackpad - after that they can worry about battery life and screen quality. Granted, Apple could use a lesson on using quality screens in their laptops too XD
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:58 PM   #34
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It is the manufacturer's job to make their drivers work properly. That said, most OEMs don't even bother - they just use synaptics and alps electric products and include the generic driver. Sony REALLY deserves crap for that, because their trackpads are bad and they should feel bad.

MS' mouse drivers are actually pretty decent, and they don't make trackpads. They could blackmail OEMs into paying more attention by demanding a standard in trackpad quality.

It really is a problem IMHO. Now that laptop manufacturers are paying attention to tactile quality, they can make a better trackpad - after that they can worry about battery life and screen quality. Granted, Apple could use a lesson on using quality screens in their laptops too XD
You have to admit it's one thing for Apple to develop a 1 trackpad algorithm for 1 hardware implementation, compared to dozens of different hardware on Windows. Another example of how full vertical integration increases quality. It's not that there's a huge secret to Apple's success, it's that they had the in-house talent to pull it all off.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:48 AM   #35
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Is there anything more shameful than the "ultrabooks?"

So I have been in best buy quite a few times and recently they've had all of their "ultrabooks" in stock.


Let me say one thing. Yes, I prefer apple products, but I don't care what you use in your personal life, android or windows or apple.

Now, does Microsoft literally have no shame left? These "ultrabooks" literally look exactly like my 2011 MBA. The ports are the same, the look and feel are the same, the keyboards are the same. I mean really how on earth has apple not sued them out the ass yet? These are so badly ripped off of the macbook airs it is insane. They are even higher priced then macbook airs. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

I couldn't believe Microsoft had sunk this low. Talk about ripping off.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:55 AM   #36
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Those Ultrabooks are not made by Microsoft, but Dell, Asus, Samsung, HP and others, upon an initiative from Intel Capital, which provide a 300 million USD fund. Microsoft "only" provides OS, as Microsoft is not making computers, except the XBox.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:59 AM   #37
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Those Ultrabooks are not made by Microsoft, but Dell, Asus, Samsung, HP and others, upon an initiative from Intel Capital, which provide a 300 million USD fund. Microsoft "only" provides OS, as Microsoft is not making computers, except the XBox.
I know that but it is essentially the microsoft version of the macbook air.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:01 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
I know that but it is essentially the microsoft version of the macbook air.
Thus Microsoft is to blame for that?
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:02 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
I know that but it is essentially the microsoft version of the macbook air.
no its not. its either an HP version, or a Dell version, or a ASUS version, etc. there is a major difference between the windows hardware makers and microsoft. especially since it is a chipmaker to pushed the hardware companies into this area with incentives, not microsoft. they could put a Linux distro on it and sell it if they wanted to.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:07 AM   #40
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no its not. its either an HP version, or a Dell version, or a ASUS version, etc. there is a major difference between the windows hardware makers and microsoft. especially since it is a chipmaker to pushed the hardware companies into this area with incentives, not microsoft. they could put a Linux distro on it and sell it if they wanted to.
Samsung makes up some of the body parts that make a Macbook air but you don't see me calling it a Samsung air.

Same thing with windows machines, they have different companies but they still use the Windows software, thus they are Microsoft machines. These Ultrabooks are made by different companies like you said, but they all have the same operating system. Macs are made by different companies but we still say they are apple computers.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:38 AM   #41
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Samsung makes up some of the body parts that make a Macbook air but you don't see me calling it a Samsung air.

Same thing with windows machines, they have different companies but they still use the Windows software, thus they are Microsoft machines. These Ultrabooks are made by different companies like you said, but they all have the same operating system. Macs are made by different companies but we still say they are apple computers.
all computers have parts made from different companies. its the ones who design them, and have all the components put together that then own that design and market the machine. hence, while Apple's computers might have different parts from many places, they assemble it and market it. Same with Dell, same with Samsung, same with HP etc. they could put any OS they want on there, but in order to make it more marketable they put Windows on there.

the operating system and the hardware are two very different things. apple is unique in that it makes both and sells both, but microsoft really doesn't care what kind of machines its operating system goes on so long as people are using it.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:43 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
Samsung makes up some of the body parts that make a Macbook air but you don't see me calling it a Samsung air.

Same thing with windows machines, they have different companies but they still use the Windows software, thus they are Microsoft machines. These Ultrabooks are made by different companies like you said, but they all have the same operating system. Macs are made by different companies but we still say they are apple computers.
No, give it up, guy.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:44 AM   #43
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So I have been in best buy quite a few times and recently they've had all of their "ultrabooks" in stock.


Let me say one thing. Yes, I prefer apple products, but I don't care what you use in your personal life, android or windows or apple.

Now, does Microsoft literally have no shame left? These "ultrabooks" literally look exactly like my 2011 MBA. The ports are the same, the look and feel are the same, the keyboards are the same. I mean really how on earth has apple not sued them out the ass yet? These are so badly ripped off of the macbook airs it is insane. They are even higher priced then macbook airs. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

I couldn't believe Microsoft had sunk this low. Talk about ripping off.
It isn't MS, it's the OEMs of the industry.

They're out of ideas, have been for years now, and are using Apple as their collective R&D dept.

Apple shows the way forward and the others follow. Been this way for a while now. Just laugh about it and enjoy your MBA. It's a superior machine in every way, anyway. No current "ultra book" even touches it. Part of the reason the industry at large can't get these ultrabooks to move if their life depended on it, and meanwhile Apple sells MBAs like crazy.

It all started here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXh2RMHLm7E

People thought Apple was crazy - no internal drive, etc.

Yeah . . . crazy like a fox.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:45 AM   #44
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Ironically, I think MS would rather those ultrabooks didn't do so well, and that people bought the Air instead.

I read somewhere, and correct me if my stat is wrong - please, that about half of Apple computers had Windows installed. Either in a virtual machine or boot-camp.

So... MS gets to sell a full priced retail copy of Windows to half the Air owners. The only people getting a discount are the ones who get their license through a school or work volume discount. Or.... MS can sell more - but highly discounted - volume priced licenses to the OEMs (Dell, HP, etc) at a huge discount.

More profit selling to Apple Air customers.

The big push for Ultrabooks is coming from Intel. They want to keep lots of competition for their chips, which are going into both the Ultrabooks and the Airs. If Apple crushes the Ultrabooks, then Intel can't dictate the price for chips, Apple sets the price. With multiple companies wanting to buy the chips Intel can keep the prices up.

MS Windows is merely the only viable OS that the HPs and Dells can put onto their version of an Ultrabook. Not enough people use Linux, and OS X is not an option. Though Google Chrome may one day become an option.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:59 AM   #45
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I know that but it is essentially the microsoft version of the macbook air.
And the Macbook Air is the Apple version of the Sony Vaio X505.

Microsoft has no hand in the ultrabook market. They sell their OS to OEMs. What OEMs then do is up to them.

Plus I can run Linux on those ultrabooks just fine.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:16 PM   #46
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Making laptops thinner and lighter has been a natural progression for years now. To say that one copy copied another by going down this route is ridiculous.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
Samsung makes up some of the body parts that make a Macbook air but you don't see me calling it a Samsung air.

Same thing with windows machines, they have different companies but they still use the Windows software, thus they are Microsoft machines. These Ultrabooks are made by different companies like you said, but they all have the same operating system. Macs are made by different companies but we still say they are apple computers.
What if we install Linux, then what vendor is to blame? Is it a Linus Torvalds Air. No, I guess it would be CentOS Air, then a Fedora Core Air, and finally an OpenSUSE Air.

What if you purchase it without an OS? Is it just Air?

Sure, this is making total sense now.

EDIT: I should probably add that it is obvious you're on an anti-Microsoft campaign. You must, however, get the facts straight before doing so.

Last edited by belvdr; Apr 22, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:38 PM   #48
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Now, does Microsoft literally have no shame left? These "ultrabooks" literally look exactly like my 2011 MBA. The ports are the same, the look and feel are the same, the keyboards are the same. I mean really how on earth has apple not sued them out the ass yet?
How old are you? Have you never seen a picture of a typewriter before? How could Apple sue others for using some that was invented before Steve Jobs was born?

So you want every manufacture to use different keyboard and touchpad on their machines? Have you ever heard something called interoperability? How would you feel if every car manufacture has a different way of operating their cars?

All the ports apart from charging are industry standard. In fact, one of the companies helped to invent USB in the mid-90s was Microsoft. How could Apple sue Microsoft for something they helped to invent?

Please read in to some basic computer knowledge next time you decide to make such naive thread, and before every other non-Apple user think the rest of us are as clueless about computers as you are.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:55 PM   #49
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What's holding back ultrabook sales are poor trackpads and screens that are not as good as MBA. Poorer viewing angles and not as bright.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:31 PM   #50
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How old are you? Have you never seen a picture of a typewriter before? How could Apple sue others for using some that was invented before Steve Jobs was born?

So you want every manufacture to use different keyboard and touchpad on their machines? Have you ever heard something called interoperability? How would you feel if every car manufacture has a different way of operating their cars?

All the ports apart from charging are industry standard. In fact, one of the companies helped to invent USB in the mid-90s was Microsoft. How could Apple sue Microsoft for something they helped to invent?

Please read in to some basic computer knowledge next time you decide to make such naive thread, and before every other non-Apple user think the rest of us are as clueless about computers as you are.
I can tell you have nothing to say because this entire post is just insulting me.

These "Ultrabooks" use the same style finish as the macbook air, they use the same chic-lit style keyboard in the same style as found on the macbook air, Instead of an apple on the back its "SAMSUNG" or "HP", The ports are located in the same spots and look exactly the same, the SD card slot is in the same location, the weight and height is in the same location, etc.

Its basically if I took an xbox 360 and put "Hexbox 180" on it and said it was a brand new system.
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