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Old Apr 30, 2012, 08:25 AM   #26
AdvocateUK
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I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Lion is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. None of these machines run any slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is disingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling.

That's all I have to say about that.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 08:57 AM   #27
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I'm talking like new iTunes, Facebook integration...ect
I doubt that stuff like that is comming - Certainly not iTunes, they don't update that as part of the OS - thats a separate product from the OS.

Facebook is also a no, but that would be more due to legal limitations than anything - if it hasn't been included by now, it just won't be. The only changes that we would see at most are going to be more visual tweaks and not functional.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 08:58 AM   #28
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I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Lion is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. None of these machines run any slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is disingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling.

That's all I have to say about that.

Lion IS slow. Drag-and-drop animation is extremely laggy. That is a simple animation and should not be laggy at all, yet it is. Lion also consumes more resources, doesn't release inactive memory properly, Mission Control mini-view at the top doesn't always refresh properly, etc.

Just because you don't notice the change from Snow Leopard to Lion doesn't mean other people don't.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:10 AM   #29
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Lion IS slow. Drag-and-drop animation is extremely laggy. That is a simple animation and should not be laggy at all, yet it is. Lion also consumes more resources, doesn't release inactive memory properly, Mission Control mini-view at the top doesn't always refresh properly, etc.

Just because you don't notice the change from Snow Leopard to Lion doesn't mean other people don't.
I haven't had an issue with Lion as far as speed or lag. I don't like that the contacts and calendar apps have drop down menus that show your contact groups and other calendars, I wish they were side bars instead. But my issues with Lion are more so small things like that. I've definitely never had an issue running Lion on any of my 3 Macs.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:18 AM   #30
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Other than a few minor tweaks, enhancements, and minor features we won't see a whole lot of change between now and release.

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Originally Posted by ajvizzgamer101 View Post
I honestly believe during WWDC we will get a couple more features that makes iOS to OS X a seemless experience.
This is the ONLY thing that I think may happen which would give ML an additional major feature or two. Because there may be some features that only can be announced/released in conjunction with iOS 6 so Apple hasn't been able to announce them till WWDC.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:20 AM   #31
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one feature i would in ML is for Apple to drop the ugly skeuomorphic design in some of the apps. in all honesty its both tacky and useless.

Last edited by 5aga; Apr 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:09 PM   #32
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Some of the commentary in this thread is hilarious.

It started out about possible new features in ML and then was thread jacked by OS X Lion dissenters.

I find Lion to have its idiosyncrasies but overall I like the experience more than Snow Leopard. The Quick Look changes have been significant to me as is the improved mail.app.

Not only has Apple not lost its way it continues to meld iOS and OS X where it makes sense.

I keep reading that Apple no longer cares about the Mac and that makes no sense. They realize the moneymaker is mobile devices but that unifying much of the lower level architecture makes sense.

I think all of the big features (save for modern filesystem) are covered. What's needed now is a whole lot of polish.

I want improvements to authorization that scale both OS X and iOS. I want the most popular social sites to be authenticated against my Apple ID or OS X login.

I want more of my preferences and account settings sync through iCloud.

I want easy transfer of iTunes content to my mobile devices without having to do a wifi or tethered sync

I want Airdrop in iOS

The late Steve Jobs said that the Mac was now just a peer device. Which means fleshing out the mobile OS and adding more management features and then beefing up the sharing or foundation between the two platforms.

Lion got us close but Mountain Lion and subsequent OS updates should really solidy.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:10 PM   #33
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Apple is capable of doing their own testing. They don't have to release every big feature for the DP if they want to keep it a surprise.

I can see ML being a lot faster than Lion and my dirty little secret wish is a Siri optimized for actual computing.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 09:40 PM   #34
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I can see ML being a lot faster than Lion and my dirty little secret wish is a Siri optimized for actual computing.
nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now
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Old May 1, 2012, 01:11 AM   #35
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nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now
You never know...

I could see Siri being accessible to the Mac; there's a lot of uses for it and I don't think there is a need for explanation when one can think of the possibilities for himself.

Too early? No. Siri's development pace would seem rather fast compared to most... it just needs a few more thousand commands (with multiple "variations" interpreting that one command can mean the same exact thing as the next).

Will it be implemented into 10.8? Probably not (due to the stage of development). We'll wait for WWDC just to be sure though....there's always that one last thing (a good example being the new interface, specifically the dock, for Leopard 10.5 at WWDC '07)

and as far as accessing Siri goes...
...just swipe from the left edge of the trackpad, opposite of the notification center. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5aga View Post
one feature i would in ML is for Apple to drop the ugly skeuomorphic design in some of the apps.
Are you kidding, Apple is all about simple consistency.

Where have you been since iCloud, the Mac + iOS ecosystem, and 1998?

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Old May 1, 2012, 03:28 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Mac Maniac View Post
nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now
DP1 already had a few pieces of Siri in it, like a Contactsplugin in /System/Library/Assitant/. A folder that in DP2 and DP3 is curiously missing.
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Old May 1, 2012, 10:20 AM   #37
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You never know...

I could see Siri being accessible to the Mac; there's a lot of uses for it and I don't think there is a need for explanation when one can think of the possibilities for himself.

Too early? No. Siri's development pace would seem rather fast compared to most... it just needs a few more thousand commands (with multiple "variations" interpreting that one command can mean the same exact thing as the next).

Will it be implemented into 10.8? Probably not (due to the stage of development). We'll wait for WWDC just to be sure though....there's always that one last thing (a good example being the new interface, specifically the dock, for Leopard 10.5 at WWDC '07)
Obviously anything is possible which is why I said "nah..." instead of "no way" but I just personally don't see it happening. For one reason, in the history of my Apple experience I have never seen/heard of Apple announcing a major feature so late in the development. You meantion leopard in '07, that is a bit before my time (my first Mac Purchase was Dec of '07) but that sounds like a pretty minor graphical thing, not a major system wide feature.

Also, you admit yourself it needs "a few more thousand commands" and I just don't see Apple rushing it at this point while it's still in beta. I also would think that Siri would be released on the iPad before the Mac, because that is so much easier to do. I also believe that if Apple truly is releasing a TV with Siri late this year/early next year that would have top priority over the Mac at the moment.

Sure, anything is possible, but I would label it as highly improbable.

Sidenote: I did have a thought the other day. I've always assumed that the Siri beta on iPhone was the beta of the iPhone Siri, but after thinking about it realized that Siri beta from the beginning could actually be the beta test (i.e. the most widespread way to gather dialect, terminology, phrasing, etc) for the rollout of the Siri feature across iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple TV. And in that mindset I could possibly see a surprise Siri announcement at WWDC for the removal of the "beta" tag and the release across the Mac and iPad.

----------

Quote:
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DP1 already had a few pieces of Siri in it, like a Contactsplugin in /System/Library/Assitant/. A folder that in DP2 and DP3 is curiously missing.
Right. Of course Apple is doing a lot of testing, research and development, etc on Siri for Mac. I don't think anyone would deny that. But that doesn't mean it will be released on ML. That doesn't even mean it will be released ever on the Mac
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Old May 1, 2012, 01:09 PM   #38
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I still miss a feature in one of Leopard's beta's for iChat, "Answering Machine". It allowed you to create an away video message and for others to leave a video or audio message in return. Was a great idea that never made it into the commercial release. The Messages app would benefit greatly from such a concept, especially for the deaf.
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Old May 1, 2012, 02:30 PM   #39
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I still miss a feature in one of Leopard's beta's for iChat, "Answering Machine". It allowed you to create an away video message and for others to leave a video or audio message in return. Was a great idea that never made it into the commercial release. The Messages app would benefit greatly from such a concept, especially for the deaf.
Whoa, where can you ask or suggest apple to add that ?
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:34 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by AdvocateUK View Post
I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Snow Leopard is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. All of these machines run slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is ingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling with reason.

That's all I have to say about that.
Fixed for you.

Saying Lion is not BUGGY is laughable.
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:45 PM   #41
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Fixed for you.

Saying Lion is not BUGGY is laughable.
Not really. I have experienced no bugs at all in 10.7.3, and minor ones at best before that. Many users share my experience. Of course there are some bugs that have hit some people, but to call it buggy would require that there be some significant number of bugs that have been experience by a large portion of users, and that's simply not true. Lion is stable, bug-free, and enjoyable for the vast majority of users out there. They simply don't post that on these boards very often, because they don't have any reason to.

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Old May 1, 2012, 03:54 PM   #42
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Whoa, where can you ask or suggest apple to add that ?
Apple Mac OS X Feedback

I wish I still had the beta's with that feature, was quite cool. It would make perfect sense to utilize it in OS X Messages with video chatting commonplace in iDevices and Mac's.
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:16 PM   #43
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Not really. I have experienced no bugs at all in 10.7.3, and minor ones at best before that. Many users share my experience.

jW
- Garageband put in fullscreen, switching around suddenly Garageband out of frame.
- Increase size of icons in Finder with the bar in the lower-richt sometimes does not work
- Dragging pictures from websites to the desktop is often laggy and sometimes needs multiple takes
- Opened a big file, no free ram although 4 gig is 'unused'. Let me use it!
- Quicklook does not work most of the time on my old Macbook
- Windows often open wrongly when computer is restarted. Mail always opens even when I stated it not to in system preferences, same for Word
- When a new item in iCal is made and the calendar is changed, the subject disappears -> need to retype it. Annoying. Same when changing 'place'
- Random safari hangs
- Random no-network problems still exist
- Applications show up 3 times in launchpad
- Opening a large text-edit file makes my TextEdit AND Finder fill all my ram and make my computer unusable
- Slow animations (Drag & drop, mission control, scrolling in Safari)
- Dragging file through Finder is painfully slow in opening folders (yes you can change it in preferences, still doesn't work nicely)
- Final Cut Pro X, when using second monitor as the viewer and than going fullscreen leaves the viewer on the second monitor while the rest of the application is in another space
- Gif files wrong speed in quick look


My iMac (with 8 gigs of ram) had a fresh install only 3 months ago. The HDD has plenty of space left. Almost every of the bugs above have I encountered this single day. I don't do anything heavy. On Snow Leopard it performed amazing but I need some of the Lion features. That most people won't notice the bugs does not mean they don't exist.



On topic:

There will be no more new features, I think ML is Lion's polishing. Well at least I hope so. When I look at the list of bugs I wrote down it's actually pretty sad. It won't be like SL as it does not offer under the hood upgrades such as GCD.
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:42 PM   #44
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I just want to say, I love you all! Really, I do.
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:56 PM   #45
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I expect some sort of filesystem announcement. Lion included core storage, Mountain Lion is due to do something to fix/replace HFS imho.

Given the ZFS files found in iOS recently, i hope it is ZFS related
Since Apple's aims as of recently have been to do nothing but make the filesystem redundant to the user, I doubt they'll be even considering this.
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Old May 1, 2012, 08:38 PM   #46
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Other than a few minor tweaks, enhancements, and minor features we won't see a whole lot of change between now and release.



This is the ONLY thing that I think may happen which would give ML an additional major feature or two. Because there may be some features that only can be announced/released in conjunction with iOS 6 so Apple hasn't been able to announce them till WWDC.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
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Old May 1, 2012, 08:41 PM   #47
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Since Apple's aims as of recently have been to do nothing but make the filesystem redundant to the user, I doubt they'll be even considering this.
Making the filesystem transparent to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.
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Old May 1, 2012, 09:05 PM   #48
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Making the filesystem transparent to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.
Excellent point, but I think you meant making the file system non transparent to the end user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.
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Old May 1, 2012, 10:26 PM   #49
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How about:

Making the filesystem INVISIBLE to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

?




edit:
seriously though there's so much scope for ZFS on the mac - time machine snapshots (zfs local snapshot, roll up to remote storage with zfs send), remote backups to icloud (zfs send), SSD caching, error correction on RAID arrays with WAY faster rebuild time (for the pro users), block level de-dupe/compression (will be a win when apps are sandboxed more and all need their own copies of libraries), etc.
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Old May 1, 2012, 10:46 PM   #50
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How about:

Making the filesystem INVISIBLE to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

?


yeah, that could work too.

excellent points about zfs, would have made a lot of sense back when apple was apple computer...

Unfortunately for us, the computer engineers now are these (former apple) guys and they ask for a premium: http://tenscomplement.com/our-produc...silver-edition . Apparently apple hasn't granted them (or us) the privilege to boot os x from it though... It's one think not being ar..ed to develop, it's another when you don't grant others the right to supplement the os to make up for it...

From devs website an inkling of how hard apple are making for others to complement os x with a better fs:
Quote:
Note that some applications and services are hard-wired to only work with HFS+ even though all the necessary support is available from ZFS.
That's why when people say hey lion costs only $25 I am thinking, yeah, but with the work that's gone into it, it should cost less...

edit:just want to add zfs didn't come to the mac because apple and sun couldn't come to an agreement in the licensing terms, and the idea now seems as dead as ever despite LE's oracle having purchased sun and being best buddies with SJ.

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