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Old Apr 28, 2012, 02:50 PM   #1
goraman
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Apple TV 1st gen return of production

I'd like this thread to speak to Apple directly about the next Apple TV .
It should have a hard drive of at least 320 gig. In Sata and should run cooler even if it means a slightly larger unit with a digital out as well as usb and optical.

Put in your opinion and I will link this thread to Apple as we are there market.
The new ATV is just to limited.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 10:07 AM   #2
charlien
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I had an apple tv v1 and currently have a v2. I prefer it over the original. Wish the v2 & 3 had a little more storage.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 10:36 AM   #3
T5BRICK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goraman View Post
I'd like this thread to speak to Apple directly about the next Apple TV .
It should have a hard drive of at least 320 gig. In Sata and should run cooler even if it means a slightly larger unit with a digital out as well as usb and optical.

Put in your opinion and I will link this thread to Apple as we are there market.
The new ATV is just to limited.
I'm pretty sure you just described the Mac Mini.

If Apple did return to building an Apple TV that was like the original, I imagine the price would be close to, if not more than what the original cost as well. Why not just get a Mac Mini at that point? You can pick up a refurb for a little over $500.

My $100 aTV2 and 3 have served me pretty well. I never had a whole lot of interest in the $300 or $400 original.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:11 PM   #4
goraman
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Originally Posted by T5BRICK View Post
I'm pretty sure you just described the Mac Mini.

If Apple did return to building an Apple TV that was like the original, I imagine the price would be close to, if not more than what the original cost as well. Why not just get a Mac Mini at that point? You can pick up a refurb for a little over $500.

My $100 aTV2 and 3 have served me pretty well. I never had a whole lot of interest in the $300 or $400 original.
No digital or optical out.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:13 PM   #5
chenks
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Originally Posted by goraman View Post
I'd like this thread to speak to Apple directly about the next Apple TV .
waste of time posting here then as you won't be speaking directly to anyone other than users.
if you want to provide feedback to apple, use the correct method via http://www.apple.com/feedback/

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No digital or optical out.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/
HDMI provides the digital output, carrying both video and audio.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:30 PM   #6
T5BRICK
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No digital or optical out.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/
Um, the specs under the link you posted say otherwise:

"Audio line out/headphone minijack (digital/analog)"

Basically, you just need a mini toslink to standard toslink cable to use it.

And as someone else said, you get digital audio through HDMI.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:52 PM   #7
HobeSoundDarryl
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Much better option- normalize the USB port for this

Instead of Apple getting to choose the "right" amount of storage (which is an impossible choice), just (Apple) normalize that USB port so that those interested in local storage can attach whatever size storage they desire. Those happy to stream everything don't have to pay for this feature. Those hungry for local storage get the exact amount of storage they want (as individuals).

The other long-desired option is to make this storage attachable to AEBS or Time Capsule. Same result as above (attach whatever size drive(s) you need) but this stores the actual media wherever you have your router.

Another long-desired option is for Apple to deliver a "just works" iTunes media server. This would be some kind of big storage device similar to Time Capsule. A home's iTunes library could be stored on it and accessed (and updated) by all devices in the household.

I agree with the OP in that I miss the local storage of gen 1. However, I'd much rather that I get to choose how much storage I want rather than Apple arbitrarily picking the right amount. And practically, I don't think Apple will go back to building in local storage. So these latter options are probably our (us local storage dreamers) best hope.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:00 PM   #8
T5BRICK
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Instead of Apple getting to choose the "right" amount of storage (which is an impossible choice), just normalize that USB port so that those interested in local storage can attach whatever size storage they desire.
The USB port on the Apple TV 2/3 is a normal port. USB doesn't work like FireWire or Thunderbolt. There are basically two kinds of devices, clients and controllers. Your computer has a USB controller, your keyboard, mouse, iPod, or whatever are all clients. You can't plug a client into a client, since none of the controller hardware is present. If they were to add this hardware I'm sure it would increase costs significantly.

Quote:
The other long-desired option is to make this storage attachable to AEBS or Time Capsule. Same result as above (attach whatever size drive(s) you need) but this stores the actual media wherever you have your router.
Now this is something I'd actually love to see happen. I've played around with jailbreaking and it's possible to do, but not always usable. I imagine Apple could do their thing and create solution using this method.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
The other long-desired option is to make this storage attachable to AEBS or Time Capsule. Same result as above (attach whatever size drive(s) you need) but this stores the actual media wherever you have your router.
I already have an external HDD hooked up to my AEBS on which all my iTunes media content is stored. What am I missing here?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:48 PM   #10
HobeSoundDarryl
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T5Brick, when I refer to normalize the USB port, I didn't mean that it was literally not a normal port. I meant make it useful for this- and other- purpose(s).

All generations of TV have had a "normal" USB port that Apple made incapable of normal use. However, gen 1 jailbreakers were able to make that one's USB port work with big external storage. Jailbreak, attach a fat hard drive and get huge local storage as if it was an internal drive. This allowed some to grow local storage well beyond the maximum limits of the little drives one could put inside that version.

The OP and I are not the only 2 people in the world who miss that feature. Apple could stick to their "iCloud everything" mentality by simply making that port useful for things other than iTunes hard-wired updates/diagnostics. Or maybe the jailbreakers will figure it out (if it can be done). The point is that making it so one could attach a hard drive if they desire would add individual utility to this little box without forcing anything (such as higher costs of bigger internal storage) on anyone else (such as those who happily stream).

----------

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Originally Posted by hafr View Post
I already have an external HDD hooked up to my AEBS on which all my iTunes media content is stored. What am I missing here?
So you access your iTunes media from that AEBS to an TV without jailbreaking? In other words, can you can- say- turn off the computer running iTunes (or can someone take that computer out with them) and you feed your TV direct from that AEBS attached storage? (note we're not talking airplay either).

One of the great niceties of the first generation was sync (not stream) a bunch of favorite media onto the internal hard drive and then turn off the computer (or have it (laptop) go out during the day but still have a highly functional TV at home stocked with your own media). Basically, the big(gest) draw of the attached storage is breaking the dependency on a computer running iTunes somewhere else in the house.

And the wish is to get back to this in some form without having to jailbreak (we're looking for an Apple-endorsed solution).

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Apr 29, 2012 at 08:40 PM.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 09:44 PM   #11
CocoaPuffs
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I haven't heard a single convincing argument why built-in harddrive is better.

Perhaps you should continue this thread by making some arguments.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 09:53 PM   #12
T5BRICK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
All generations of TV have had a "normal" USB port that Apple made incapable of normal use. However, gen 1 jailbreakers were able to make that one's USB port work with big external storage. Jailbreak, attach a fat hard drive and get huge local storage as if it was an internal drive. This allowed some to grow local storage well beyond the maximum limits of the little drives one could put inside that version.
The aTV 2/3 don't have any artificial limitations on the USB port. Client devices simply don't function that way. If Apple were to add that functionality, it would likely increase the cost of the unit enough that they wouldn't be able to hit that $99 sweet spot that makes the device so popular(relative to the original aTV).

I don't disagree with you, it would be nice to have that ability. But I feel that the ability to access a networked drive would be the most cost effective solution.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:35 AM   #13
hafr
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
So you access your iTunes media from that AEBS to an TV without jailbreaking? In other words, can you can- say- turn off the computer running iTunes (or can someone take that computer out with them) and you feed your TV direct from that AEBS attached storage? (note we're not talking airplay either).
Look at what you said. You want three things: 1) being able to connect a storage device to the ATV, 2) being able to connect a storage device to a TC/AEBS and 3) Apple releasing something like a TC which would be "running iTunes".

Keeping 2 and 3 separate, 2 is already possible. If you want 2 to include being able to access the content without having a computer running iTunes, there is no need for 3 since it would already exist. Or do you mean you want Apple to release a Time Capsule without the router function - basically an external hard drive?

So, if I'm not missing anything, you want to be able to choose between a Time Capsule with iTunes capabilities that is meant for Time Machine backups and a Time Capsule with iTunes capabilities that is meant for iTunes media storage. Kind of like choosing between two identical cars, one being meant to drive your kids to school with and the other to go grocery shopping with...
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:54 AM   #14
HobeSoundDarryl
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Originally Posted by T5BRICK View Post
The aTV 2/3 don't have any artificial limitations on the USB port. Client devices simply don't function that way. If Apple were to add that functionality, it would likely increase the cost of the unit enough that they wouldn't be able to hit that $99 sweet spot that makes the device so popular(relative to the original aTV).
First generation had this ability. Apple locked down the port to not do it but the jail breakers unlocked it and it worked this way. What OP and I are saying is we would like to have that ability again without the jailbreakers having to do it. You're making an argument that it will add a lot of cost to the little box but I just can't believe your argument. Other makers of little boxes like this make it possible to attach hard drives to USB ports without making their boxes cost more than $99 (or less). How much are you imagining it would add to the retail to go from locked-down USB port to one through which a hard drive could be attached?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocoaPuffs View Post
I haven't heard a single convincing argument why built-in harddrive is better. Perhaps you should continue this thread by making some arguments.
Then obviously this thread is not for you. What are you doing here?

Local storage was a great (and missed by some) feature since gen 1. Local storage makes it possible to have a fully functional Apple TV loaded up with your own media even when the computer running iTunes is turned off or away (out of the house). Some people like those options.

It also lets you sync up a bunch of media and (just) take the little box on a trip with you or over to a friend's house and play your own media wherever you go (no computer running iTunes required). That's also a very nice benefit desired by some.

Not interested in either yourself. Then this is not about you. There are other people in the world who desire features that differ from what make YOU happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hafr View Post
Look at what you said. You want three things: 1) being able to connect a storage device to the ATV, 2) being able to connect a storage device to a TC/AEBS and 3) Apple releasing something like a TC which would be "running iTunes".

Keeping 2 and 3 separate, 2 is already possible. If you want 2 to include being able to access the content without having a computer running iTunes, there is no need for 3 since it would already exist. Or do you mean you want Apple to release a Time Capsule without the router function - basically an external hard drive?

So, if I'm not missing anything, you want to be able to choose between a Time Capsule with iTunes capabilities that is meant for Time Machine backups and a Time Capsule with iTunes capabilities that is meant for iTunes media storage. Kind of like choosing between two identical cars, one being meant to drive your kids to school with and the other to go grocery shopping with...
hafr, I don't know what you're reading but it seems like you're seeing something not intended or just trying to answer a different question/comment than the subject of this thread. One more try...

What OP and I are talking about is a way to bring local storage back to Apple TV so that our own media can be available on the Apple TV even when the computer running iTunes is turned off or out of the home. Since gen 1 came with an internal hard drive, one could sync a bunch of their own media to it and then have access to that media in those kinds of scenarios... no computer running iTunes required.

OP is wanting that brought back as internal storage and I've suggested it would be better for Apple to NOT choose the capacity (they can never get the right size for everyone) but instead go with 1 of those options I suggested in post #7 (so that anyone interested in this could attach whatever amount of local storage they desire for this purpose).

You've come back twice now saying that someone can already attach more storage to AEBS or Time Capsule- which is true- but you are ignoring the context of the concept which is to give the (non-jailbroken) Apple TV access to personal media without a computer running iTunes somewhere else in the house. That doesn't work now and that's what this thread is about: a desire to revive a good "turn that computer off" feature from gen 1 for those who miss that feature.

You're not wrong in what you are posting but by sharing your posts in THIS thread you are implying something can be done that can't be done (without jailbreaking). Otherwise, if you have your Apple TV working like that (which would mean you can turn off all computers running iTunes in your house and still have full access to your own iTunes media via a non-jailbroken Apple TV (and we're not talking about airplay features here), please enlighten us on exactly how to set our Apple TVs up that way.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Apr 30, 2012 at 07:15 AM.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 09:22 AM   #15
paulrbeers
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I've never understood the local storage requirement. I suppose if you only have one t.v. it makes sense, but in my case I have multiple TV's. It's easier just to have one computer with all of the data that is then streamed to my t.v.'s. I've been doing this for years. None of my "media streamers" that have USB ports for hooking hard drives to have ever been used. What would be the point? I would have to load all the same content on to each hard drive which A. Increases my storage needs (since I would need the same amount of storage at each device rather than all in one place). B. means I spend a lot of time loading videos/music on to each on rather than just one place.

And really, is running iTunes in the background on some computer in your house that big of a deal? Don't most people (at least those that are spending money on things like AppleTV's) have an old desktop that could be used for that purpose?
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:28 AM   #16
awair
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+1 for local (internal) storage.

Needs to be 500GB or greater. (Already hacked the original to 320!)

Why...

Don't need to have the computer(s) switched on - it's such a pain that a regular NAS is not able to serve up iTunes.

Don't need to have the Internet, or even a local network.

Screen-saver with all your best photos.

Kids: don't need to mess with DVDs - the whole library, permanently available, out of reach, with a simple remote.

But, it won't happen. We're all hooked on our iPads & Touches, throwing stuff on the screen with AirPlay. As an administrator (ie Dad with toddlers), the original ATV was probably my best investment.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:29 PM   #17
CocoaPuffs
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Then obviously this thread is not for you. What are you doing here?
This forum is designed for discussions, and as "current" owner of all three ATVs, I am obviously interested in the argument why built-in hard drive is better.

You, on the other hand, are very excited and defensive about this topic for no apparent reason when asked about the argument, and I am actually more inclined to make the comment that perhaps this thread isn't for you.

Anyhow, calm down, this is a forum and we are here to discuss.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:57 PM   #18
marzer
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Originally Posted by paulrbeers View Post
And really, is running iTunes in the background on some computer in your house that big of a deal? Don't most people (at least those that are spending money on things like AppleTV's) have an old desktop that could be used for that purpose?
I agree on this point. What's the big deal of keeping a computer on to run iTunes? Yes, I use a headless Mac mini as server, it as well as my other Macs all sleep after a period of time with no use. Let's others game, or whatnot, on the desktops without risking interruption to someone streaming media.

But I could have easily built (or purchased cheaply, second hand) a small, bare bones, Windows machine to run iTunes...I just wanted an excuse for another Mac in the house

BTW, I have ran Firefly (DAAP) on a small Linux NAS in the past, accessible from iTunes clients. As this wonderful little product is open-source, I would image it’d be a relatively small feat for Apple to build an iTunes server into the Time Capsule…which I’m all for (queue second gaping smiley in one post)
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:20 PM   #19
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Don't need to have the computer(s) switched on - it's such a pain that a regular NAS is not able to serve up iTunes.
Jailbroken ATV2 will do just that. The number one reason I jailbroke it.

I'm with paulrbeers. There are many places I 'consume' media (iphone, ipad, laptop, macmini, two tv's) so centralized storage makes much more sense.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:22 PM   #20
NewbieCanada
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No digital or optical out.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/
Who cares? It supports it through HDMI
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 05:32 PM   #21
T5BRICK
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Who cares? It supports it through HDMI
As I stated in another post, goraman was mistaken. The Mac Mini does have an optical output.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 09:47 PM   #22
Mak47
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I can understand why it would be desirable to have some local storage if your computer isn't available, but I just don't see it as a necessity for most users.

As such, I can see why it isn't built in. This keeps the cost lower to make the product more accessible. Beyond that, for everybody who's satisfied with the amount of internal storage, there will be two more people who complain that it isn't enough.

I don't however, see why it would be such a big problem to support an external hard drive connected through the built in micro usb port. It wouldn't have to add any additional cost and would make the product more desirable to some people who might not otherwise consider it.

All that said, another drive would be yet another place to have to manage files etc.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:43 PM   #23
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I've never understood the local storage requirement. I suppose if you only have one t.v. it makes sense, but in my case I have multiple TV's. It's easier just to have one computer with all of the data that is then streamed to my t.v.'s. I've been doing this for years. None of my "media streamers" that have USB ports for hooking hard drives to have ever been used. What would be the point? I would have to load all the same content on to each hard drive which A. Increases my storage needs (since I would need the same amount of storage at each device rather than all in one place). B. means I spend a lot of time loading videos/music on to each on rather than just one place.

And really, is running iTunes in the background on some computer in your house that big of a deal? Don't most people (at least those that are spending money on things like AppleTV's) have an old desktop that could be used for that purpose?
I still take my atv 1 on trips and vacations with me. Don't always have a computer or wifi available.
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
hafr, I don't know what you're reading but it seems like you're seeing something not intended or just trying to answer a different question/comment than the subject of this thread. One more try...
Again, you separated being able to connect storage to AEBS/TC and the ability to access this without having iTunes running on a computer, which is why I asked you what I was missing. So to say you don't know what I'm reading, after having explained it to you, is either because you're playing dumb or because you didn't read my reply.

Quote:
What OP and I are talking about is a way to bring local storage back to Apple TV so that our own media can be available on the Apple TV even when the computer running iTunes is turned off or out of the home. Since gen 1 came with an internal hard drive, one could sync a bunch of their own media to it and then have access to that media in those kinds of scenarios... no computer running iTunes required.

OP is wanting that brought back as internal storage and I've suggested it would be better for Apple to NOT choose the capacity (they can never get the right size for everyone) but instead go with 1 of those options I suggested in post #7 (so that anyone interested in this could attach whatever amount of local storage they desire for this purpose).

You've come back twice now saying that someone can already attach more storage to AEBS or Time Capsule- which is true- but you are ignoring the context of the concept which is to give the (non-jailbroken) Apple TV access to personal media without a computer running iTunes somewhere else in the house. That doesn't work now and that's what this thread is about: a desire to revive a good "turn that computer off" feature from gen 1 for those who miss that feature.
I understand that. The question is if you understand that wanting to be able to access media on an external drive connected to the TC and wanting Apple to release "something like a TC" with the ability to be a dedicated iTunes server mean that Apple would have two identical products?

Quote:
You're not wrong in what you are posting but by sharing your posts in THIS thread you are implying something can be done that can't be done (without jailbreaking). Otherwise, if you have your Apple TV working like that (which would mean you can turn off all computers running iTunes in your house and still have full access to your own iTunes media via a non-jailbroken Apple TV (and we're not talking about airplay features here), please enlighten us on exactly how to set our Apple TVs up that way.
Are you actually not getting it, or are you trying to be funny?
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:33 AM   #25
hafr
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Originally Posted by awair View Post
+1 for local (internal) storage.

Needs to be 500GB or greater. (Already hacked the original to 320!)

Why...

Don't need to have the computer(s) switched on - it's such a pain that a regular NAS is not able to serve up iTunes.

Don't need to have the Internet, or even a local network.

Screen-saver with all your best photos.

Kids: don't need to mess with DVDs - the whole library, permanently available, out of reach, with a simple remote.

But, it won't happen. We're all hooked on our iPads & Touches, throwing stuff on the screen with AirPlay. As an administrator (ie Dad with toddlers), the original ATV was probably my best investment.
Arguments three and four isn't any different on the other ATVs

I also have toddlers, and I must say I prefer NOT having the storage device by the TV (in other words, easily accessible by the little terrorists whose goal in life it seems to be to test the durability of everything they see)
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