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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:36 AM   #1
gdeputy
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1 1/2 year old iPad 1 Battery Dead.

My girlfriends iPad (she got it for christmas 2010..right before iPad 2 came out) has stopped charging.

Well, it will charge but it doesn't display its charging and it will take over 24 hours to gain maybe 10%.

I've gone through any troubleshooting and it's most certainly the iPad.

Sort of disheartening that I'll have to shell out 100$ for a bad battery when the product is not even 2 years old.

Just venting I suppose.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:47 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear that. For comparisions sake I'll tell you that I bought a reconditioned ipad 1 from Apple (supposedly with a new battery) in December 2010 and it still holds a charge for 8-10 hours. It seems to get better battery life now than my new ipad 3. I think what happened to your friend's ipad is pretty unusual, at least in my experience.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeputy View Post
My girlfriends iPad (she got it for christmas 2010..right before iPad 2 came out) has stopped charging.

Well, it will charge but it doesn't display its charging and it will take over 24 hours to gain maybe 10%.

I've gone through any troubleshooting and it's most certainly the iPad.

Sort of disheartening that I'll have to shell out 100$ for a bad battery when the product is not even 2 years old.

Just venting I suppose.
That sucks. Batteries are sometimes hit or miss. My 5 year old iPod Nano that sits in my car and continuously drains to 0% (I never leave things plugged into my car) probably has over a 1000 cycles on it and in use constantly still holds at least 80-90% charge.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeputy View Post
My girlfriends iPad (she got it for christmas 2010..right before iPad 2 came out) has stopped charging.

Well, it will charge but it doesn't display its charging and it will take over 24 hours to gain maybe 10%.

I've gone through any troubleshooting and it's most certainly the iPad.

Sort of disheartening that I'll have to shell out 100$ for a bad battery when the product is not even 2 years old.

Just venting I suppose.

Try a complete restore from iTunes but set up as a new device
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:54 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear that. I can't offer any advice about what to do with the current battery, but if you get it replaced, I can offer up some advice based on my own experiences with laptop batteries.

It's very bad for the batteries if you keep them at 100% charge all the time. We had a MacBook here that was at a desk and left plugged into the wall at all times, only being unplugged when it was actually taken out of the house on rare occasions. That battery ended up like your iPad one where it took a very long time to charge, and ended up in a state where it drained in less than 30 minutes.

Another MacBook roughly the same age (53 months) was only ever used on the battery, and plugged in to charge when it wasn't in use, is still at 93% capacity after 554 charge cycles and lasts as long as it ever did—this is back from when they were only rated for 300 cycles.

There was a MacBook Pro that actually went through several batteries. The first died prematurely from being left plugged in all the time, as with the first MacBook, and the second had noticeably reduced battery life within 6 months after following the "drain to 0% and calibrate the battery once a month" "rule" due to paranoia after the first battery dying so quickly. The third battery was treated as with the second MacBook, and it also lasted a very long time. (I no longer have that machine, but was able to sell it with the original battery as it was still well over 90% capacity)


You never want to be using the device with it plugged in to the wall, unless you're down below 10% charge and don't want it to shut off.

Similarly, you want to avoid draining the battery to 0% wherever possible. If it just happens from normal use every so often (e.g. you managed to go from 80% to 0% in a day) then that's OK, but you want to avoid getting in the habit of picking the iPad up for an hour or two a night, and only bothering to plug it in to charge once a week when the battery has completely drained.

As long as you are keeping the battery active, you should not intentionally drain the battery to 0% once a month to "calibrate" it. Modern batteries don't have a memory, so if you drained the iPad 30% one day, charged it back up, 50% the next, charged it up, and then 20% the time after that, it counts as a single charge cycle. (100% accumulated discharge) As long as you are going through at least one or two charge cycles a month, you're fine.

As a general rule, I wouldn't recommend plugging it in to charge if you're over about 90% capacity unless you are actually going on a trip or something where you will need the full charge. Plug it in to charge when you're finished using the device if it's below that though. (and it's fine to leave it plugged in overnight if you use it every day or two—you don't need to unplug as soon as it reaches 100% if you aren't actively using it at the time)

The best thing for battery life is to keep the battery active on short-to-medium charge cycles. Never use the device while it's plugged in and charging if you can help it. If it's only charged up to 50%, you're better off disconnecting it and running down the battery, than letting it charge back up to 100% and using it while it's plugged in. (this creates a lot more heat which doesn't help things, and can reduce the amount of charge it's getting)

Similarly, if you know the device is not going to be used for a while—if you're going on holiday for a few weeks and not taking it with you for example, then you want to drain it down to about 50% before going, rather than leaving it at 100%, or worse, plugged in to the charger at 100%.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeputy View Post
My girlfriends iPad (she got it for christmas 2010..right before iPad 2 came out) has stopped charging.

Well, it will charge but it doesn't display its charging and it will take over 24 hours to gain maybe 10%.

I've gone through any troubleshooting and it's most certainly the iPad.

Sort of disheartening that I'll have to shell out 100$ for a bad battery when the product is not even 2 years old.

Just venting I suppose.
How are you charging it? Have you tried a different charger? I got the original iPad at my office and purchased it the day they were introduced and the battery is as good as I ever remember it. Even if your battery is bad it should still show it is charging, so maybe it is the charger. The cords on the charger can also be bad.

At 1.5 years, you battery should be fine but there are exceptions.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:17 PM   #7
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Defective battery, not a common occurrence.
Out side of a restore or charger, cable issue it would need to be replaced.

The $100 nets you Another iPad not repairing yours if that's any consolation.

If it looks two years old it might not be a bad deal.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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So much of what andrewfee said is inaccurate or simply not true. I would recommend that you go read for yourself about batteries rather that take some random person's word about it.

What Apple has to say about lithium-ion batteries.
Apple on Lithium-ion batteries
Apple on Apple Notebook batteries
Apple on iPad batteries
Apple on iPhone batteries

Wikipedia on lithium-ion batteries.

There are many other articles on the web about lithium-ion batteries if you are interested.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brand View Post
So much of what andrewfee said is inaccurate or simply not true. I would recommend that you go read for yourself about batteries rather that take some random person's word about it.

What Apple has to say about lithium-ion batteries.
Apple on Lithium-ion batteries
Apple on Apple Notebook batteries
Apple on iPad batteries
Apple on iPhone batteries

Wikipedia on lithium-ion batteries.

There are many other articles on the web about lithium-ion batteries if you are interested.
Could you please clarify what exactly in my post was inaccurate or "simply not true"?

None of your links disagree with anything I have said, except some people have misinterpreted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipad.html
For proper reporting of the battery’s state of charge, be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down).
To mean intentionally doing a full discharge of the battery, when Apple states that a charge cycle is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/batteries/

Charge Cycle. Using and recharging 100% of battery capacity equals one full charge cycle.
Intentionally discharging the battery to 0 for no good reason, is damaging to long-term battery life.

Your sources back up everything else that I said in my post regarding charging, storage, and use.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
Intentionally discharging the battery to 0 for no good reason, is damaging to long-term battery life.

Your sources back up everything else that I said in my post regarding charging, storage, and use.
You're forgetting this part of that link from Apple:

"charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down"
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:32 PM   #11
andrewfee
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Originally Posted by anjinha View Post
You're forgetting this part of that link from Apple:

"charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down"
Yes, but that doesn't mean you need to go from 100% to 0% in one go with modern batteries. As explained, a charge cycle is accumulative. Draining to 50% twice, is equivalent to going from 100% to 0%, without damaging the battery.

And I'm pretty sure most people go through at least one charge cycle a month with their iPads. Battery calibration should not be necessary at all, unless you are going long periods of time without using the device. (months)
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 04:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
You never want to be using the device with it plugged in to the wall, unless you're down below 10% charge and don't want it to shut off.
False

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
you want to avoid getting in the habit of picking the iPad up for an hour or two a night, and only bothering to plug it in to charge once a week when the battery has completely drained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
As long as you are keeping the battery active, you should not intentionally drain the battery to 0% once a month to "calibrate" it.
Apple specifically says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
I wouldn't recommend plugging it in to charge if you're over about 90% capacity unless you are actually going on a trip or something where you will need the full charge. Plug it in to charge when you're finished using the device if it's below that though. (and it's fine to leave it plugged in overnight if you use it every day or two—you don't need to unplug as soon as it reaches 100% if you aren't actively using it at the time)
Again false. There is circuitry inside to protect the battery from over and under charging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
Never use the device while it's plugged in and charging if you can help it.
False

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
If it's only charged up to 50%, you're better off disconnecting it and running down the battery, than letting it charge back up to 100% and using it while it's plugged in.
False

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
if you know the device is not going to be used for a while—if you're going on holiday for a few weeks and not taking it with you for example, then you want to drain it down to about 50% before going, rather than leaving it at 100%, or worse, plugged in to the charger at 100%.
Using the example that you provided there is no need to intentionally drain the battery to 50% capacity when not being used for a few weeks so again that is false.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean you need to go from 100% to 0% in one go with modern batteries. As explained, a charge cycle is accumulative. Draining to 50% twice, is equivalent to going from 100% to 0%, without damaging the battery.

And I'm pretty sure most people go through at least one charge cycle a month with their iPads. Battery calibration should not be necessary at all, unless you are going long periods of time without using the device. (months)
To get accurate reporting of the battery's state Apple specifically says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple iPad Battery
Use Your iPad Regularly
For proper reporting of the battery’s state of charge, be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down).
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 05:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean you need to go from 100% to 0% in one go with modern batteries. As explained, a charge cycle is accumulative. Draining to 50% twice, is equivalent to going from 100% to 0%, without damaging the battery.

And I'm pretty sure most people go through at least one charge cycle a month with their iPads. Battery calibration should not be necessary at all, unless you are going long periods of time without using the device. (months)
Draining it to 50% twice is not the same as draining it to 0%. Apple specifically says completely running it down, which means draining it to 0%.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 05:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brand View Post
False
Using the iPad (or a notebook) while it is charging generates a lot of additional heat, which is bad for the battery.

It has also been shown that if you have the brightness up and/or are running intensive apps, the 10W charger cannot supply enough power to properly charge the iPad battery, and in some cases it may actually continue to drain the battery. And if you're in that situation, the A5x is putting out a lot of heat (relatively) in addition to the heat from charging.

Unless you have a need to use the iPad while it is charging, for example, being down to 10% battery and still needing to use it for a while, you will have better battery life over the long-term if you do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brand View Post
Apple specifically says otherwise.
Apple says to perform at least one charge cycle per month. The basic example of what a charge cycle is, was a poor choice in my opinion. In the more detailed section on battery terms, they explain that their batteries do not have a "memory" meaning that you do not have to discharge to 0% and back up to 100% for optimal battery life as you did with older rechargeable battery technologies, and go on to explain that a battery cycle is accumulative. (so 2x 50%, or 4x 25% etc. = 1 charge cycle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/batteries/

Charge Cycle. Using and recharging 100% of battery capacity equals one full charge cycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by brand View Post
Again false. There is circuitry inside to protect the battery from over and under charging.
Yes, the iPad charger will continue to discharge, and then "top up" the battery when it is left at 100%. It's not good to leave it in this state for extended periods of time. Assuming you don't need 100% of the battery the next day, it's far better for battery life to leave it at 90% and then do a bigger charge to 100% next time. I never said it was essential, just that I would recommend that, rather than doing unnecessary short trickle-charge cycles on it.

In the notebooks section that you linked to, Apple specifically states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it’s important to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time. An ideal use would be a commuter who uses her notebook on the train, then plugs it in at the office to charge.
For maximum long-term battery life—for example over the space of four or five years as I mentioned with one of the MacBooks here, rather than the space of a product cycle (e.g. 12–18 months, where you may not see much degradation) you should never use a portable device while it's plugged into the charger unless it's necessary. And when I say necessary, I mean that you need to use the device, and it doesn't have enough battery life remaining for that task.

And while Apple is talking about long-term storage over the space of six or more months here, for general long-term battery life, it's best not to keep it plugged in at 100% all the time (yes, even though there is overcharging protection) which means not letting it charge up to 100% every night, if it's only drained 5–10%. Trickle charging is not good for battery life in the long-term.


I'm only offering my advice here as someone that has owned several Apple notebooks, and multiple batteries for most of them, such as having two MacBooks that were purchased within six months of each other, where one has 93% of the original capacity after 53 months and almost twice the rated charge cycles, and the other is on its second battery and is almost certainly well below 90% capacity again less than a year after replacing it. (because it's frequently used while it's still plugged in to the charger and always topped up to 100% and left there)

Past the initial warranty period (which is a year in many countries) I'm quite sure that Apple would be happy to sell you a new battery.

Following the "do a full charge, discharge to 0% and charge cycle once a month" mantra that's posted on the forums here, caused the battery of my MacBook Pro to prematurely lose capacity—so much that Apple were happy to replace it free of charge, despite it being a "consumable".
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:59 PM   #15
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by brand View Post
False




Apple specifically says otherwise.


Again false. There is circuitry inside to protect the battery from over and under charging.


False


False


Using the example that you provided there is no need to intentionally drain the battery to 50% capacity when not being used for a few weeks so again that is false.

----------



To get accurate reporting of the battery's state Apple specifically says otherwise.
Some got a new hole ripped..
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:08 PM   #16
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Well OP if I were you I would take it into the Apple store providing you have clear title to the iPad and tell them about it. The battery should not have gone dead in that period of time. You never know maybe Apple will just agree with my assessment and replace the battery or give you a refurb one. My original iPad is now 2 years old and still holds a full charge without any problems at all. I do however keep the iPad plugged into an electrical outlet all the time when I am not using it, and only unplug it from the power source when I am using it.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post
Using the iPad (or a notebook) while it is charging generates a lot of additional heat, which is bad for the battery.
False. After owning every iteration of iPhone, and an iPad 2 and iPad 3, I've not experienced this "excessive heat" caused by charging alone.

Charging a device in an environment where there is a lot of heat to begin with will result in a hot device, but the environment alone is not good for the device to begins with.

And in any case, there are protection mechanisms in the devices themselves they prevent charging, and even operation, when extreme temps (both cold and hot) are detected.

But charging alone, to any level, is not harmful to the device as long as you're using good quality OEM chargers. Not because of heat, current, or anything.

Quote:
It has also been shown that if you have the brightness up and/or are running intensive apps, the 10W charger cannot supply enough power to properly charge the iPad battery, and in some cases it may actually continue to drain the battery. And if you're in that situation, the A5x is putting out a lot of heat (relatively) in addition to the heat from charging.
The number of "intensive apps" which do this is pretty small, and you'd have to be actively using them for it cause an issue. Again, while the net flow of power might result in a battery drain in those limited cases, the worst that will happen is that you'll be inconvenienced when your iPad powers down... in which case you stop using the iPad and let it charge. The problem has then corrected itself.

But again, charging isn't the problem here. The power drain on those "intensive apps" will be present whether you're plugged in or not.


Quote:
Unless you have a need to use the iPad while it is charging, for example, being down to 10% battery and still needing to use it for a while, you will have better battery life over the long-term if you do not.
There's absolutely nothing that says this is true. 1000 charge cycles is 1000 charge cycles, whether you use your iPad while plugged in or not.

Quote:
Apple says to perform at least one charge cycle per month. The basic example of what a charge cycle is, was a poor choice in my opinion.
I respectfully submit that your opinion does not trump Apple's facts about charging and battery care.

Quote:
In the more detailed section on battery terms, they explain that their batteries do not have a "memory" meaning that you do not have to discharge to 0% and back up to 100% for optimal battery life as you did with older rechargeable battery technologies, and go on to explain that a battery cycle is accumulative. (so 2x 50%, or 4x 25% etc. = 1 charge cycle)
Correct. But that doesn't infer that you must never, ever, fully discharge your battery. Either use case is perfectly acceptable.

Quote:
Yes, the iPad charger will continue to discharge, and then "top up" the battery when it is left at 100%.
Uhh no. The iPad charger doesn't discharge anything. At 100%, the iPad will stop drawing power to charge the battery, at which point some battery power may get used to run the iPad.

Then, once the battery drops below a certain threshold, it will begin drawing power from the charger to charge the battery back to full.

Is this a problem? Well, as you've astutely noted, battery cycles are cumulative. So, using the iPad this way is no different from unplugging the iPad, using the battery for a while, and topping it up again. In other words: not harmful.


Quote:
It's not good to leave it in this state for extended periods of time. Assuming you don't need 100% of the battery the next day, it's far better for battery life to leave it at 90% and then do a bigger charge to 100% next time. I never said it was essential, just that I would recommend that, rather than doing unnecessary short trickle-charge cycles on it.
The device vendor clearly doesn't see a specific behavior like that as being necessary. You are over thinking the care and feeding of the battery. If it makes you feel better to do that, then it's not harmful. But telling others that deviating from your behavior is harmful, is just plain not true.

Quote:
In the notebooks section that you linked to, Apple specifically states:
For maximum long-term battery life—for example over the space of four or five years as I mentioned with one of the MacBooks here, rather than the space of a product cycle (e.g. 12–18 months, where you may not see much degradation) you should never use a portable device while it's plugged into the charger unless it's necessary.
What you're saying is completely different from what Apple says. The document is very clear that the battery SHOULD be used, but plugging in your macbook isn't inherently going to kill your battery so long as you periodically use the battery to keep the electrons moving.

Quote:
I'm only offering my advice here as someone that has owned several Apple notebooks, and multiple batteries for most of them, such as having two MacBooks that were purchased within six months of each other, where one has 93% of the original capacity after 53 months and almost twice the rated charge cycles, and the other is on its second battery and is almost certainly well below 90% capacity again less than a year after replacing it. (because it's frequently used while it's still plugged in to the charger and always topped up to 100% and left there)
That's funny, because I have a couple of notebooks as well: one that gets a lot of travel, and one that is plugged in more than it's unplugged. Both are 25 months old, and are at 95% and 96% health, respectively. The former has 540 charge cycles on the clock, and the other, 97.

My previous run of MacBook pros, bought back in early 2007, were pretty much the same.

Quote:
Following the "do a full charge, discharge to 0% and charge cycle once a month" mantra that's posted on the forums here, caused the battery of my MacBook Pro to prematurely lose capacity—so much that Apple were happy to replace it free of charge, despite it being a "consumable".
They replaced it despite it being a consumable probably because that's not expected or typical behavior for a notebook battery.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:10 PM   #18
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I'll try the full restore..

it's unfortunate because this iPad is charged to 100, and ran down over 3-4 days and goes through that cycle over and over.

I would imagine there are around 100 cycles on it.

usually we charge it around 2-5% (she loves using it! lol)

and so the battery health should be excellent.

As far as a refurb I know I can for 100$ but it's disappointing because it is flawless condition, and treated wonderfully. Just sucks the battery went and I doubt apple will do anything about it. I don't feel i should have to pay 100$ for what is essentially a faulty battery.

----------

also, I know it's not the cables.. they charge my iPad 3 and iPhone just fine.

And finally, it doesn't detect my iPad when plugged into computer.. iPad 3 and iPhone do on same cable. have tried another cable also and same story.
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