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Old May 2, 2012, 06:01 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
=at about 10 times the cost of the industry standard for payment processing.
Have you ever added in-app purchasing to an app? If so you would know that Apple reviews them, and since they can be submitted separate from your binary, they are tested to make sure they are compatible with your current release. Is this something you'd expect Visa or Paypal to do as part of their rate? If not, why do you keep talking about "standards for payment processing" when it's obviously a different service?

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No, since again, from the documentation :
Important In-App Purchase only collects payment. You must provide any additional functionality, including unlocking built-in features or downloading content from your own servers.
This needs to be read in the context it was intended. Apple's documentation is trying to make it clear to a developer that they need to host the files the user is buying or provide the code to unlock a feature in your app; it's not Apple saying "we're just a payment processor" as you seem to be trying to force.
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Old May 2, 2012, 06:17 PM   #252
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Ugh, Apple, I love your products but seriously! These rejections just act to defy your mantra of good and friendly usability!
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:14 PM   #253
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:25 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by pmz View Post

No it isn't. Its just the same old folder management nightmare, moved to the cloud.

It has its uses, not all of which are replaced by iCloud, but that's Apple's fault for not rolling more features into iCloud......yet.

Key word being Yet. I almost never use Dropbox for anything but the few things I can't do with iCloud. I'm much happier with iCloud behavior overall, and want my Apps to use iCloud, NOT Dropbox.

Where Dropbox has no room to grow at all, iCloud will continue to expand, and eventually utterly eclipse everything that Dropbox is good for.

Any forward thinking strategy for a consumer or developer that involves Dropbox instead of iCloud is an utter mistake.
I completely disagree with you.

Dropbox is like a hard drive in the cloud. But iCloud does not have a good comparison because you are so limited with it.

I can easily upload all my Maya scene files to Dropbox and have them be automatically downloaded to any of my computers. And when they are in a project folder, it keeps all of that as well.

I cannot upload whatever kind of document I want to iCloud. It only takes very specific file types. Say I try and upload one of my scene files to iCloud and it will say that the document isn't supported. Just think about that for a second. A cloud storage service does not allow you to upload certain file types. How ridiculous is that? This is supposed to be storage in the cloud, not 3 file types in the cloud. A real cloud storage service works like a hard drive at a remote location. I can have whatever file type I want on a hard drive, whatever file type I want on Dropbox, and heck even whatever file type I want on iDisk, but not iCloud.

Think of iCloud like a piggy bank with a small coin opening. Only certain coins will fit, and it can be a hassle to get out. Now with Dropbox, I can put anything on there and it is automatically downloaded to my Dropbox folder on all my computers.

How is all of that functionality a mistake compared to iClouds limited features? You have given no proof at all.
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:37 PM   #255
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I guess it's just a matter of time before the U.S. Department of Justice brings an anti-trust suit against Apple. Microsoft have had theirs, and Google has one now.

Apple have two things baked into its DNA by Steve Jobs that are guaranteed - as death and taxes - to see that it'll receives its own anti-trust suits: arrogance and lust of money.

There is no doubt the DoJ is monitoring Apple, and as sure as the sun rises tomorrow, Apple's arrogance and greed will cause it to trip up, maybe later rather than sooner, but it's a sure thing.
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:53 PM   #256
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So glad Dropbox didn't sell itself to Apple. Remember when Apple used to always say they were sticking it to the boring, sheep, brain-washing corporations? Funny how things change when you start making money.
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:55 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by KylePowers View Post
I really wish Apple and Dropbox could have worked something out.
On one hand I agree. On the other I'm glad that Dropbox rejected Apple. For all we know Apple would have ruined it.

iCloud is underdeveloped & over hyped.

Not too much unlike the failure that was MobileMe, for some odd reason Apple just can't, or doesn't care to get cloud computing right.

You know there's a significant problem when it was Jobs himself, that proclaimed MobileMe one of Apples failures.

Who knew they'd be so inept in this area.
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Old May 2, 2012, 08:27 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by ixodes View Post
On one hand I agree. On the other I'm glad that Dropbox rejected Apple. For all we know Apple would have ruined it.

iCloud is underdeveloped & over hyped.
Apple would have probably dropped the service for all O/S's except windows and OSX. Also, they would have removed its file system.
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Old May 2, 2012, 08:40 PM   #259
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Apple would have probably dropped the service for all O/S's except windows and OSX. Also, they would have removed its file system.
I would have been surprised if Apple had kept Windows support after an acquisition.
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Old May 2, 2012, 08:49 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by katewes View Post
I guess it's just a matter of time before the U.S. Department of Justice brings an anti-trust suit against Apple. Microsoft have had theirs, and Google has one now.
Just saw this on The Verge

They're pretty much trying to make it as hard as possible for anyone to sign up for a competing service through anything involved with the app store. You can access these through the internet, yes. But isn't one of Apple's defining characteristics ease of use? Shouldn't 3rd party apps bought through the App Store have the same advantages as Apple designed ones without having to pay a tithe of their monthly profits?

Well, it is Apple's store, right? You wouldn't see advertisements for Best Buy's competitors in Best Buy. You wouldn't see Dells in the Apple Store. Why should Apple give equal share to 3rd party apps that go against their own products.

Because there is no competing outlet to grab software from in iOS. You can get Macs at MacAuthority or a local Apple Store. Dells from Dell.com, or Newegg. Software from Best Buy, or any number of online shops. The App Store, on the other hand, is your only option if you want to install software on your iPad. Besides jailbreaking anyway, but we all know that doesn't quite count in this specific situation.

As such, it should be a neutral shopping point, giving no favoritism to their own products over any others. If Apple does this, they're guilty of being anti-competitive, and are just begging to be taken to task over it. Right now they can get away with it, considering the tablet market is still relatively small in comparison to the entire PC scene. If the tablet market continues it's current meteorically upward pace...yeah. I expect we'll be seeing Apple in court over this very issue within 3 years at least.

This situation is very, very, VERY similar to the stunts MS pulled all the time back in the 90's, updated for the internet age.
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:14 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by strausd View Post
I completely disagree with you.

Dropbox is like a hard drive in the cloud. But iCloud does not have a good comparison because you are so limited with it.

I can easily upload all my Maya scene files to Dropbox and have them be automatically downloaded to any of my computers. And when they are in a project folder, it keeps all of that as well.

I cannot upload whatever kind of document I want to iCloud. It only takes very specific file types. Say I try and upload one of my scene files to iCloud and it will say that the document isn't supported. Just think about that for a second. A cloud storage service does not allow you to upload certain file types. How ridiculous is that? This is supposed to be storage in the cloud, not 3 file types in the cloud. A real cloud storage service works like a hard drive at a remote location. I can have whatever file type I want on a hard drive, whatever file type I want on Dropbox, and heck even whatever file type I want on iDisk, but not iCloud.

Think of iCloud like a piggy bank with a small coin opening. Only certain coins will fit, and it can be a hassle to get out. Now with Dropbox, I can put anything on there and it is automatically downloaded to my Dropbox folder on all my computers.

How is all of that functionality a mistake compared to iClouds limited features? You have given no proof at all.
No, I don't think of iCloud that way, nor should anyone who understands a fraction of what it can do right now, because thats not at all an accurate description... nor does it apply to what it will be 6 months from now, a year from now, etc..

I can tell you exactly what Dropbox will be 6 months from now...the same.
A year from now...the same.
2 years from now....probably gone.
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:31 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by pmz View Post
No, I don't think of iCloud that way, nor should anyone who understands a fraction of what it can do right now, because thats not at all an accurate description... nor does it apply to what it will be 6 months from now, a year from now, etc..

I can tell you exactly what Dropbox will be 6 months from now...the same.
A year from now...the same.
2 years from now....probably gone.
What it can do right now is syncs up and share files from certain programs between my iDevices. Maybe my Mac, if I ever decide to get one. I know it's about useless on Windows.

In the future, it'll expand its repertoire of supported programs. Pretty soon, we won't even need harddrives anymore! It'll all be there in the cloud! We'll wonder why we were so foolish, clinging to the outdated technology of local HDD storage. We'll laugh about how stupid we were, and roll our eyes in smug satisfaction, knowing we're so much better off now than we were just 2 years ago.

...and then stupid Comcast accidentally shuts internet access down for 24 hours. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Pandemonium even. Then Captain Walker picked them of an age and good for a long haul. They counted twenty, and that were them. The great leaving.

Anyway, it basically does what Dropbox does now, cept a tiny bit more streamlined, and alot more limited overall.
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:33 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Just saw this on The Verge

They're pretty much trying to make it as hard as possible for anyone to sign up for a competing service through anything involved with the app store. You can access these through the internet, yes. But isn't one of Apple's defining characteristics ease of use? Shouldn't 3rd party apps bought through the App Store have the same advantages as Apple designed ones without having to pay a tithe of their monthly profits?

Well, it is Apple's store, right? You wouldn't see advertisements for Best Buy's competitors in Best Buy. You wouldn't see Dells in the Apple Store. Why should Apple give equal share to 3rd party apps that go against their own products.

Because there is no competing outlet to grab software from in iOS. You can get Macs at MacAuthority or a local Apple Store. Dells from Dell.com, or Newegg. Software from Best Buy, or any number of online shops. The App Store, on the other hand, is your only option if you want to install software on your iPad. Besides jailbreaking anyway, but we all know that doesn't quite count in this specific situation.

As such, it should be a neutral shopping point, giving no favoritism to their own products over any others. If Apple does this, they're guilty of being anti-competitive, and are just begging to be taken to task over it. Right now they can get away with it, considering the tablet market is still relatively small in comparison to the entire PC scene. If the tablet market continues it's current meteorically upward pace...yeah. I expect we'll be seeing Apple in court over this very issue within 3 years at least.

This situation is very, very, VERY similar to the stunts MS pulled all the time back in the 90's, updated for the internet age.
QFT and emphasis.
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:39 PM   #264
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I must say after using MobileMe patiently for two years, I thought Apple would have learned from their mistakes & outages. Yet my mistake was allowing my optimism & tenure as a long time Apple customer, to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Based on their initial dialog upon opening iCloud to the public, I expected it would be full featured. At least as much as MobileMe was, since Apple had so much time invested in iCloud.

Now that it's obvious they have a long way to go, I'm not saying they won't get it done, but it certainly won't be in a timely fashion. Unlike other tech companies, Apples working quite sluggishly. A direct reflection of their level of commitment, or confusion in their approach.

It would be very encouraging to see Apple take the lead in the cloud space, but circumstances prove they're trailing quite far behind all the others.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:06 PM   #265
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It would be very encouraging to see Apple take the lead in the cloud space, but circumstances prove they're trailing quite far behind all the others.
And it's very telling that Icloud is actually running on Microsoft's cloud....

It doesn't seem that Apple is committed to or understands the cloud.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:51 PM   #266
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And it's very telling that Icloud is actually running on Microsoft's cloud....

It doesn't seem that Apple is committed to or understands the cloud.
Excellent points.

I almost forgot till you reminded me that MS Azure is indeed the cloud that is the catalyst for Apples efforts. It's been quite some time since I read about their arrangement. In typical fashion Apples kept a lid on that fact.

Even Amazons typical modesty has prevented them from talking up the seamless & reliable performance of the cloud they've created.

With today's announcement that Microsoft is dropping "live" from it's cloud moniker, in the interest of simplification & clarity, the "Contest Of The Clouds" is off & running.
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Old May 2, 2012, 11:16 PM   #267
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Guess these guys haven't read the App Store guidelines:
"If your app is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps."

Hope they're not shooting themselves in the foot posting their correspondence with the App Store review team.
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Old May 3, 2012, 02:20 AM   #268
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I love Apple products, and love using them, but every time they do this sort of thing my loyalty to them dies a little bit - soon it feels like even if they have the best products I'd seriously consider using other ones just to avoid their inbred ecosystem in which all roads point to Apple, and other vendors are not even allowed to link to the internet - because the internet allows people to buy things not through Apple. What an incredible stance to take.

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Originally Posted by astrorider View Post
Guess these guys haven't read the App Store guidelines:
"If your app is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." Hope they're not shooting themselves in the foot posting their correspondence with the App Store review team.
Of course Apple prefers that you just accept anything they say, and never tell anyone about their unreasonable and arbitrary demands. On the other hand, developers going public with Apple's unreasonable demands is the only way that Apple has been forced to change in the past - they certainly don't actually *listen* to developer complaints, unless they are public, so I completely understand why some partners are doing this in frustration with the Apple process - where you deal with some low-level flunky who has complete control over your business and has a myriad of vague rules at their disposal to mark you down on. The review board is not independent.

If I'm using an app like this I want Apple as the OS vendor to get out of the way and let me use the app as the creator intended - if they want to link to their website, what is so unreasonable about that? As a user or developer, do I want Apple to get a cut of every transaction I ever make on my devices? Absolutely not, why should they? If they really think they're entitled to that, they'll soon find that the trickle of people leaving turns to a flood, and competitors improve quickly as all the smart people leave.

Remember Microsoft of the 90s - 'a vig on every transaction' - that is what Apple has become. Sad days.
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Old May 3, 2012, 04:14 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
This situation is very, very, VERY similar to the stunts MS pulled all the time back in the 90's, updated for the internet age.
It is, but it isn't. Microsoft had over 90% of market share of desktop systems already when they pulled their crap, effectively making it a suicide for OEMs to try to sell anything else. They had control.

Apple doesn't.
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Old May 3, 2012, 06:41 AM   #270
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You guys realize this only affects the sign up for additional PAID services, not signing up for a free Dropbox account...

There is no effort to kill Dropbox, only to keep them from selling services through an iOS app without paying Apple for the privilege.
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Old May 3, 2012, 07:34 AM   #271
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Shame on Apple!
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Old May 3, 2012, 07:55 AM   #272
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This sucks. Dropbox integrated apps are invaluable for those needing productivity outside Apple's walled garden. iFiles and DropVox are only the first two I can think of.
It competes with iCloud, so that is a big no no thru Apple
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Old May 3, 2012, 08:07 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
It is, but it isn't. Microsoft had over 90% of market share of desktop systems already when they pulled their crap, effectively making it a suicide for OEMs to try to sell anything else. They had control.

Apple doesn't.
By what metric? They probably have 90% of app store profits.
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Old May 3, 2012, 08:07 AM   #274
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Good. Developers should be implementing iCloud into their apps, not getting stuck in the past.
I think you just won the "most ignorant post in the world" award! Congrats!
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Old May 3, 2012, 08:24 AM   #275
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By what metric? They probably have 90% of app store profits.
So what ? The metric is control. OEMs are doing fine without iOS or the App Store. Apple has no industry control, no matter how much profit they rake in. When they do, then they can be accused to have a monopoly and anti-trust concerns can be brought forth. As it stands, their shenanigans hurt their users, not the industry.
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