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Old Jun 29, 2012, 12:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
I've played AO, AC2, DAoC, COH, Matrix Online, PS, SWG, SB, DC Online, DAoC, SWTOR and here's what I've seen. Since WOW dropped, all I've seen are devs trying to duplicate WOW's themepark design thinking they can also get 10 million subs. No major studio has tried to make a sandbox for the past 8 years. Features that used to be MMO staples like player housing, nobody's putting in games anymore because WOW didn't have them. WOW's main innovation, leveling through questing, is now in every game.

If people aren't getting sick of the WOW formula, I don't know why every game that's used it (which is pretty much every recent MMO) has either lost subs or has had to go f2p to survive. It's been 8 years already, the last expansion was underwhelming, the highlight of the newest one is you get to be a panda. But WOW still holds marketshare. Because devs like Cryptic, Bioware, and Zenimax think they're innovating when they're just reskinning WOW
Guild Wars is distinctly different in how it handles combat. The trilogy of tank, damage, healer basically does not exist, at least like it does in WoW. Aggro mechanics is different too.

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I agree in many ways... There was a flood of MMOs after WoW that are cheap junk I cannot stand... But that includes WoW as well, I have always hated it and cannot understand why people liked it so much. I long for the good old days to have the open virtual world MMO and not just a themepark.
I loved WoW for about 24 months. Within it's limitations, it's a great game. However my big dislike was the perishable zones you outgrew. Some zones I did not want to leave! I might lose my mind with happiness, if Blizzard ever came out with a huge WoW environment sandbox MMO with single zones about the size Azeroth.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:03 PM   #27
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I agree in many ways... There was a flood of MMOs after WoW that are cheap junk I cannot stand... But that includes WoW as well, I have always hated it and cannot understand why people liked it so much. I long for the good old days to have the open virtual world MMO and not just a themepark.
Yeah when I first tried WoW, I was disappointed how shallow it was compared to previous MMO's. Now this shallowness is a genre standard.

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Guild Wars is distinctly different in how it handles combat. The trilogy of tank, damage, healer basically does not exist, at least like it does in WoW. Aggro mechanics is different too.
I'm waiting for GW2, The Secret World, and Planetside 2.

GW2 I keep hearing good stuff about.
TSW I've played the open beta and it's a lot of fun. The immersion and world design is incredible.
If Planetside 2 is like 1, it'll be fun - class based FPS with a thousand people trying to kill each other
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:31 AM   #28
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http://signup.elderscrollsonline.com/

Not sure how long the beta signup page has been available, but it's available! The signup form is for both PC and Mac.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:33 PM   #29
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http://signup.elderscrollsonline.com/

Not sure how long the beta signup page has been available, but it's available! The signup form is for both PC and Mac.
Yep, the official Elder Scrolls beta confirmed it. The beta is for Mac and PC. Macs included in the beta! It certainly implies the possibility of a very decent "native" Mac-coded game, simultaneously developed along with the PC version, instead of some poor months-later port.

This game definitely got my attention now.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:12 PM   #30
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Yeah when I first tried WoW, I was disappointed how shallow it was compared to previous MMO's. Now this shallowness is a genre standard.
For me, MMOs began and ended with Everquest. Nothing else has come close to the pure, visceral thrills (and absolute frustration), or captivated me nearly as deeply. Kinda glad for that, actually. EQ consumed WAYYYY too much of my time back in the day.

I played WoW during the last public beta, and even bought the game when it came out. It was great for about 3 weeks or so, then you started realizing you were doing the same things over and over and over...and over...and over again. At that point, it became less of an adventure, and more like a factory job. Repetition repetition repetition.

I remember watching a friend who got deep into the game play it. I think it was back when the first expansion came out. He said he had to do his "dailies" or something for a quick bit of cash.

Dailies? Like...chores? You're playing a game that makes you do chores? That's horrible! Why would you do that to yourself?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:15 PM   #31
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did you guys sign up for the beta? What score did they end up giving you?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:34 PM   #32
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I remember watching a friend who got deep into the game play it. I think it was back when the first expansion came out. He said he had to do his "dailies" or something for a quick bit of cash.

Dailies? Like...chores? You're playing a game that makes you do chores? That's horrible! Why would you do that to yourself?
I admit to playing WoW for quite some time. When I had time to raid and such it was somewhat fun. But then my brain flipped and none of it made much sense anymore... why would I spend 4-5 hours every night doing the same "level" (raid) that we've already beaten many times for a chance at somebody in the group getting a piece of loot? I wouldn't do that in a single player game. Some of my WoW friends would be up for hanging out after they did their dailies... they didn't even need the money or experience or anything. They just didn't want to not do them. Couldn't take it anymore. I doubt the Elder Scrolls will be any different. But I'm still signed up.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:42 PM   #33
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For me, MMOs began and ended with Everquest. Nothing else has come close to the pure, visceral thrills (and absolute frustration), or captivated me nearly as deeply. Kinda glad for that, actually. EQ consumed WAYYYY too much of my time back in the day.

I played WoW during the last public beta, and even bought the game when it came out. It was great for about 3 weeks or so, then you started realizing you were doing the same things over and over and over...and over...and over again. At that point, it became less of an adventure, and more like a factory job. Repetition repetition repetition.

I remember watching a friend who got deep into the game play it. I think it was back when the first expansion came out. He said he had to do his "dailies" or something for a quick bit of cash.

Dailies? Like...chores? You're playing a game that makes you do chores? That's horrible! Why would you do that to yourself?
There's a Cracked article out there called 5 ways video games are trying to get you addicted that shows how games like WoW and all those F2P games on mobile are basically refined skinner boxes. They dangle a reward in front of you and make you grind for weeks to get it, then you get it and are happy for a moment, then they dangle a new reward. They're basically conditioning you to do all the boring stuff over and over because as long as you're grinding, they're getting paid

This is why I miss sandboxes
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:57 PM   #34
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Snip
I have to admit that raiding, at least the bits and pieces I saw of it, did look like a lot of fun. Watching my friend running through a few of the end game instances back during the Burning Crusade days almost tempted me back into playing it again.

...then I heard what I'd have to go through to get to the point where I'd be considered raid ready. Nuh uh. There's no way I'd want to deal with all that. Hours and hours and hours of grinding, running the same instances over and over again, gearing up with the best equipment from random drops. There's way too much work involved just to get to the fun part of a game.

I applaud people willing to put up with all that and all, but...eh. Ain't for me.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:10 PM   #35
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This is why I miss sandboxes
Yup. That's what I think was best about EQ back when. It wasn't nearly so structured. You just headed out into the wilderness, maybe find some neat dungeon, and probably get killed exploring it. Sometimes, if you really, really lucky, you'd get a staff.

To me, MMOs are at their best when they're brand new. Everything's new, no one really knows what's going on, and everybody is out doing their own thing. It's more like an adventure that way. It's more fluid and interesting, and there's always some new thing just over the hill. But eventually, it'll get to the point where people starting realizing the optimal way of doing things. You need to go to X to get Y, so you can head to Z. It becomes less a game, and more like a grocery list you're going down, checking everything off when you're at it.

That gets boring to me after awhile. There's nothing left to discover. No surprises. You're just going through the motions by that point.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:05 PM   #36
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Any game with WoW flow?

The greatest "sand box" game has to be eve online and there you will find plenty to figure out of how best to play or in getting an edge up in any niche of the game mechanics you might discover. Think that's fun? There it is. In WoW there is the space you remember, the places you've been. I enjoy visiting the places in WoW and I like how good it feels to move around in the various, artistic and culture designed realms. Its so creative in several dimensions, even humorous and subtle. It surprises me to be moving across a particular well-conceived terrain in WoW and to have memories awakening in me of RL. I think, "Yes, I've been out somewhere like that!" "Thanks for reminding me." Exploring is great fun and exploring places and not merely stratagems of game. If I'm going to go away from the game after spending so much time with any satisfaction for myself the game has to enliven and enchant. It has to be art so that I go away with more.
"Second LIfe" has a myriad landscape to explore through but no reason to be there. Wow has it and it auto-adjusts or adapts to the challenge you are comfortable with yet enticed by. This is the "flow" of ideal experience. Yeah, I get tired of it. Isn't there another game out there that can do this?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:24 PM   #37
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The greatest "sand box" game has to be eve online and there you will find plenty to figure out of how best to play or in getting an edge up in any niche of the game mechanics you might discover. Think that's fun? There it is. In WoW there is the space you remember, the places you've been. I enjoy visiting the places in WoW and I like how good it feels to move around in the various, artistic and culture designed realms. Its so creative in several dimensions, even humorous and subtle. It surprises me to be moving across a particular well-conceived terrain in WoW and to have memories awakening in me of RL. I think, "Yes, I've been out somewhere like that!" "Thanks for reminding me." Exploring is great fun and exploring places and not merely stratagems of game. If I'm going to go away from the game after spending so much time with any satisfaction for myself the game has to enliven and enchant. It has to be art so that I go away with more.
"Second LIfe" has a myriad landscape to explore through but no reason to be there. Wow has it and it auto-adjusts or adapts to the challenge you are comfortable with yet enticed by. This is the "flow" of ideal experience. Yeah, I get tired of it. Isn't there another game out there that can do this?
For me the best sandbox was SWG before Sony ruined it. You can go on Youtube and find videos of peoples' last day in the game before it went offline, that's how much it impacted them. Plenty of exploring and stuff like that too.

I also enjoyed hybrids like AO. EQ, like Renzatic said, was another great one that actually blew up the MMO market. Over a decade later pretty much all the sandbox elements are gone because everyone's been trying to copy WoW for the last few years. Elder Scrolls Online is gonna be another WoW clone. The fact they replaced the Elder Scrolls color palette with a WoW color palette is a dead giveaway.
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Last edited by Liquorpuki; Jan 24, 2013 at 08:09 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:43 PM   #38
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Elder Scrolls Online is gonna be another WoW clone. The fact they replaced the Elder Scrolls color palette with a WoW color palette is a dead giveaway.
What, they replaced "realistic" with "acid trip?"
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:44 PM   #39
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Is the beta signup form supposed to do anything after you submit? I completed the form, the Submit button turned blue... and when I clicked it it turned grey and nothing else happened.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:08 PM   #40
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Is the beta signup form supposed to do anything after you submit? I completed the form, the Submit button turned blue... and when I clicked it it turned grey and nothing else happened.
I got an email shortly thereafter confirming my enrollment. I'd say if you don't get an email in 24 hours maybe try again. I know their servers were getting junked up for a while.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:55 PM   #41
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Well, no email after two hours but I'll wait until tomorrow and see what happens.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 06:19 AM   #42
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Is the beta signup form supposed to do anything after you submit? I completed the form, the Submit button turned blue... and when I clicked it it turned grey and nothing else happened.
mine went to a page confirming and thanking me for signing up... telling me i'd receive and email too.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:26 AM   #43
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Yeah, Zenimax made me flinch.

I really hope the elf faces are better than in Skyrim, first thing I did was find better face mods, after I installed it.
It's a complete mystery why Bethesda created such ugly characters in Skyrim. I too found an elf mod.

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No, there's an MMO game using the Elder Scrolls IP that's coming out in the future. It's not Skyrim, it's a brand new game.

And yeah, it looks like they copied WoW's color palette (among other things)
I'd say that by itself is a plus!

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I admit to playing WoW for quite some time. When I had time to raid and such it was somewhat fun. But then my brain flipped and none of it made much sense anymore... why would I spend 4-5 hours every night doing the same "level" (raid) that we've already beaten many times for a chance at somebody in the group getting a piece of loot? I wouldn't do that in a single player game. Some of my WoW friends would be up for hanging out after they did their dailies... they didn't even need the money or experience or anything. They just didn't want to not do them. Couldn't take it anymore. I doubt the Elder Scrolls will be any different. But I'm still signed up.
A profound observation. On a logical level I agree with you completely. Although I seemed to be content grinding up through the levels, at least I was seeing new zones, WoW was over for me once I hit the end game.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I have to admit that raiding, at least the bits and pieces I saw of it, did look like a lot of fun. Watching my friend running through a few of the end game instances back during the Burning Crusade days almost tempted me back into playing it again.

...then I heard what I'd have to go through to get to the point where I'd be considered raid ready. Nuh uh. There's no way I'd want to deal with all that. Hours and hours and hours of grinding, running the same instances over and over again, gearing up with the best equipment from random drops. There's way too much work involved just to get to the fun part of a game.

I applaud people willing to put up with all that and all, but...eh. Ain't for me.
For myself, WoW style raidng crossed over the threshold from fun to a job... The first 40 player WoW raid I participated in took over an hour to organize and then it was just not fun for me. I much prefer 5-10 player groups, no more. PS- I know WoW no longer has 40 player raids. Last I heard the max was 25?

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The greatest "sand box" game has to be eve online and there you will find plenty to figure out of how best to play or in getting an edge up in any niche of the game mechanics you might discover. Think that's fun? There it is. In WoW there is the space you remember, the places you've been. I enjoy visiting the places in WoW and I like how good it feels to move around in the various, artistic and culture designed realms. Its so creative in several dimensions, even humorous and subtle. It surprises me to be moving across a particular well-conceived terrain in WoW and to have memories awakening in me of RL. I think, "Yes, I've been out somewhere like that!" "Thanks for reminding me." Exploring is great fun and exploring places and not merely stratagems of game. If I'm going to go away from the game after spending so much time with any satisfaction for myself the game has to enliven and enchant. It has to be art so that I go away with more.
"Second LIfe" has a myriad landscape to explore through but no reason to be there. Wow has it and it auto-adjusts or adapts to the challenge you are comfortable with yet enticed by. This is the "flow" of ideal experience. Yeah, I get tired of it. Isn't there another game out there that can do this?
I have special memories of my Wow adventures. I agree about Second Life, I don't see the point unless the goal is to just spend your life in a virtual world... not until they come up with something like portrayed in Caprica!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:29 AM   #44
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I agree about Second Life, I don't see the point unless the goal is to just spend your life in a virtual world... not until they come up with something like portrayed in Caprica!
The thing I like about Second Life is seeing what people have done with it. I'm a programmer myself so I enjoy going into Second Life every few months to see how it's progressing. I don't play it regularly or have any second life friends, but I enjoy the wonderment (and get weirded out sometimes by some of the stuff... )
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:51 AM   #45
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The thing I like about Second Life is seeing what people have done with it. I'm a programmer myself so I enjoy going into Second Life every few months to see how it's progressing. I don't play it regularly or have any second life friends, but I enjoy the wonderment (and get weirded out sometimes by some of the stuff... )
Possibly relating to virtual sex? I've not tried it, but my impression it's on the crude animation side. I do know you can (or could) purchase primed male organs for the purpose...

I think the real breakthrough and possible downfall of humanity will be when they can place a chip in your head and you can go virtual like the Matrix or the Virtual Clubs in Caprica.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:03 PM   #46
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Possibly relating to virtual sex? I've not tried it, but my impression it's on the crude animation side. I do know you can (or could) purchase primed male organs for the purpose...

I think the real breakthrough and possible downfall of humanity will be when they can place a chip in your head and you can go virtual like the Matrix or the Virtual Clubs in Caprica.
Haha... yes in part. I won't say it bothers me... I think people can do (for the most part) whatever they want. I'm coming to their "home" so it's not my business... it's all interesting from a tech standpoint to me even if I don't care for what is being done with the tech.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:45 PM   #47
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Haha... yes in part. I won't say it bothers me... I think people can do (for the most part) whatever they want. I'm coming to their "home" so it's not my business... it's all interesting from a tech standpoint to me even if I don't care for what is being done with the tech.
I mentioned this before somewhere in this forum, but I explored, then wrote an article several years ago regarding gaming opportunities in Second Life. Unless things have changed drastically, it can't compete with dedicated gaming environments where large sums of money have been spent.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:04 PM   #48
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It's a complete mystery why Bethesda created such ugly characters in Skyrim.
uhhhh...did you see how absolutely "f-ugly" the characters were in Oblivion?

Skyrim is a 1000% improvement.

BTW, these ain't your Uncle Bilbo's elves...
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:13 PM   #49
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I mentioned this before somewhere in this forum, but I explored, then wrote an article several years ago regarding gaming opportunities in Second Life. Unless things have changed drastically, it can't compete with dedicated gaming environments where large sums of money have been spent.
Oh it absolutely can't compete with a conventional game. But that's not what it is and I've never viewed it as such. I just find it interesting as it is something created by individuals rather than a company (yeah SL is created by a company). Having limitless customization is an interesting concept to me and SL allows for it. There are really poorly made parts of SL and there are also really intricate and detailed parts. It's a very good social public IM client and maybe a little more. It'll likely never give you a "game" experience in it's current incarnation but it's been interesting to watch it evolve over the past many years.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:53 PM   #50
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mine went to a page confirming and thanking me for signing up... telling me i'd receive and email too.
Thanks, that confirms that it definitely didn't work so I'll try it again.

Edit: Still not working so I tried Firefox and it went straight in. Something broken with the site that stops it from working with Safari?

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