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Old May 4, 2012, 04:59 PM   #126
Daveoc64
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Originally Posted by Giuly View Post
Where exactly is AT&T spending more money on the bandwidth side for the LTE thing, so that they have to add a bandwidth cap, except for building more antennae, but no one would probably complain if the bandwidth on the current antennae get completely used while they build new ones?
The problem with wireless communications is that people don't always use their device(s) where they live.

With a fixed broadband connection, it's only possible to use it in one place. You just need to ensure there's enough capacity for the users you sell to.

With wireless networks, you have the different concept of people moving around. People use more bandwidth in all sorts of places. If 1000 people want to use data from one cell site, then you have a problem. You need to add additional capacity to that specific site (works up to a point), add additional sites (might be possible, although there are legal/planning issues and site availability to consider) or you need to throttle usage in that area to make the service usable.

1000 people using their home broadband spread out over a town is entirely different.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:00 PM   #127
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Greedy bastard. You can make no money with "unlimited" service. They make more money charging you for overages and that's what they want.

Same with the Credit card companies. They make their money banking that you will miss a payment or two and pay fees and more interest. They don't make any money if everyone paid their bill on time and paid off their cards every month.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:01 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Spectrum Abuser View Post
What did they do wrong? Only offering a one plan fits all is what they did wrong. Most of the population did not want to pay so much money because their data use did not justify it(iPhone 3G Gophone wagon anybody?). They should of kept the unlimited data plan as a choice and introduced lower priced tiered data for the people who didn't need so much data. That way a majority of AT&T's mobile revenue would of been secured while the people that actually need data would still have the means to do so.
Exactly. Short term thinking at display again. They wanted everyone paying 30$ for unlimited rather than have tiers since for every tier they would be "losing money". "They didn't expect the heavy data usage" that came with unlimited. Clearly that's because they have no concept of how technology is moving. The exponential spike in data usage was obvious from the get go.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:02 PM   #129
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BOO HOO! I only made $3.6 billion this year! How will I pay for my multiple estates, extravagant vacations, and expensive escorts now!?!
Prostitutes and cocaine is expensive. Randall Stephenson's friends on Wall Street will eat him alive.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:03 PM   #130
creeman
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Everyone always complains about AT&T. But honestly, ever since I have switched to Verizon, it has been nothing but hell, and sometimes I even miss having AT&T! I ALWAYS get dropped calls on Verizon, I would say 1 of every 2 phones calls drops. I randomly lose 3G and sometimes all coverage.

Let's be honest. Every major cell carrier sucks.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:03 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Dragonforce View Post
Would you think different if it was your company?
Not only "would I," but in fact "so do" his competitors.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:04 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Saikkou View Post
I have AT&T and have never had a problem, I've even pleasant experience with customer service, but things like this just make me want to leave them. I understand a business needs to make money, but as new technologies emerge people are not going to pay to use the old ones. A company has to be fluid and innovate if they want to keep making money, not harping on progression.
The only difference between this guy and the CEO for Verizon is that he is dumb enough to say it out loud.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:04 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
Probably not, imo. Also, let's not forget they want to keep your data capped very low so you can't try your hand at VOIP. They know that's a killer.
Very low caps are okay, because VOIP uses very little data

For instance, the service I use uses these codecs:

G.711 (64 kbps)
G.726 (32 kbps)
G.729 (8 kbps)
G.723 (5.3 & 6.3 kbps)
GSMFR (13.2 kbps)

So a minute on the lowest quality (which is actually definitely good enough according to my experience) with constant transfer would be (5.3*60+6.3*60)/8= 87 KB/m, or almost twelve minutes per MB.

The highest quality would be 960 KB/m, so just under a MB per minute.

But these numbers are if there is constant transfer both ways, which it never is. If instead you talk for 30 seconds and listen for 30 seconds during a call, the data usage would be half...

But just for kicks, this means if I had 1 GB of data usage and had constant transfer both ways, I would be able to get over 18 hours of calling time...
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:04 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
Right now not much since it sucks on 3G. But with LTE and HSDPA I think he better start getting real worried. Talkatone is going to make a lot of money on LTE I imagine.

I was referring to the text messaging part of google voice. I enabled it and it's the default text messaging client on my phone (thus free! yay!). Never used it for voice though - I think THAT comes out of the voice bucket

On the plus side, T-Mobile's data has been really good to me these days. I almost never pull less than 3mbit and most of the time around 6. Plus ~60ms lag.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:04 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post
This CEO is such a complete *******. He doesn't talk ONCE about how to make things BETTER for his customers. He only talks about how to RAPE his customers more so that HE can make more profits. Everybody knows that it costs them 1 cent for every MILLION text messages that are sent. This is, sadly, how all of corporate America works outside of Apple Inc.
You seriously think It doesn't work the same way at apple. Their 45% margins suggest otherwise.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:05 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by racer1441 View Post
Dear Apple,

Please just buy one of these jokers, sale the iphone on your own carrier and push the current cell communications model into extinction.

Thanks.
Dear Apple Fanboys,

Please stop thinking Apple can simply buy whatever and whoever they like.

Thanks.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:05 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Dragonforce View Post
Well, he's right.
Would you think different if it was your company?
"In the last quarter, AT&T made $3.58 billion in profit on $29 billion in sales."

No, I wouldn't. Some people are just greedy douches.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:06 PM   #138
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I personally liked it...
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:07 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
AT&T has been extraordinarily successful attracting
Check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
and keeping
Check.

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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
and serving
Nope.

Oh, wait: the original article didn't mention that, did it?
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:08 PM   #140
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Hmm. Where has Blackberry Been?

Complaining about iMessage taking away revenue is Nothing arguable. Blackberry has Done this with their whole network in the past, No reason to Start Whining AT&T.

Verizon iPhone 4s
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:08 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by SirHaakon View Post
"In the last quarter, AT&T made $3.58 billion in profit on $29 billion in sales."

No, I wouldn't. Some people are just greedy douches.
Apple made $11.6 B on $39.2 B in sales last quarter... who's the greedy one now?
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:08 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by mbh View Post
Every time I read an article about AT&T being stingy with bandwidth after selling us "unlimited" contracts, I watch a few shows on Netflix after turning off my Wi-Fi. Might as well raise the average bandwidth usage for my area...
That is awesome. I to will join you in this endeavor... hahaha
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:08 PM   #143
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Ugh. I hate carriers so much. Way too often they stifle innovation to help their bottom line. This happens with TV too. Ahem... Comcast.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:08 PM   #144
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If this isn't a sign to ditch At&t nothing is... wow... just wow... it's like telling your child, "I should have pulled out that night..."

I can't wait until At&t collapses on itself so I can take a dump on the rubble.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:09 PM   #145
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He's right, of course. Offering unlimited at a low price was a mistake in the long term.

It's just not possible to sustain such a plan with what is ultimately limited bandwidth. Only children think everything can be both free and unlimited.

One question is, who came up with the original idea that the first iPhone should come with unlimited data, Stephenson or Jobs or both?
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:10 PM   #146
JohnDoe98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hafr View Post
Very low caps are okay, because VOIP uses very little data

For instance, the service I use uses these codecs:

G.711 (64 kbps)
G.726 (32 kbps)
G.729 (8 kbps)
G.723 (5.3 & 6.3 kbps)
GSMFR (13.2 kbps)

So a minute on the lowest quality (which is actually definitely good enough according to my experience) with constant transfer would be (5.3*60+6.3*60)/8= 87 KB/m, or almost twelve minutes per MB.

The highest quality would be 960 KB/m, so just under a MB per minute.

But these numbers are if there is constant transfer both ways, which it never is. If instead you talk for 30 seconds and listen for 30 seconds during a call, the data usage would be half...

But just for kicks, this means if I had 1 GB of data usage and had constant transfer both ways, I would be able to get over 18 hours of calling time...
Thanks. I've tested numerous codecs and typically if you want quality that rivals a landline or mobile line you will need the higher end of the estimates you provide. I've found the sweet spot exactly where you put it, roughly 1mb per minute (using the G.711 ulaw is pretty good imo).

So yep, 1gb = 1000 minutes

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeG4 View Post
I was referring to the text messaging part of google voice. I enabled it and it's the default text messaging client on my phone (thus free! yay!). Never used it for voice though - I think THAT comes out of the voice bucket
Not if you use Talkatone, then it is all data
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:11 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Apple made $11.6 B on $39.2 B in sales last quarter... who's the greedy one now?
I think both are greedy, but Apple at least attempts to ensure an excellent user experience...
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:11 PM   #148
SirHaakon
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Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post
I still don't understand why people need it anyway - at home you have WiFi, at work you likely have WiFi. What do you do between those two places that requires so much data?
I do a fair amount of driving, and I'm always listening to streaming audio in some capacity... Pandora, DI, iTunes Match...

I've been averaging roughly 4GB of data a month, and I'm definitely feeling the throttling kick in around the third week. But my best decision was keeping the unlimited data plan because things are only going to get bigger and used more frequently, not the other way around.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:11 PM   #149
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He's right, of course. Offering unlimited was a mistake.

It's just not possible to sustain such a plan with what is ultimately limited bandwidth. Only children think everything can be free and unlimited
My carrier disagrees.

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Old May 4, 2012, 05:12 PM   #150
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He's right, of course. Offering unlimited was a mistake. It's just not possible to sustain such a plan with what is ultimately limited bandwidth.

One question is, who came up with the original idea that the first iPhone should come with unlimited data, Stephenson or Jobs or both?
You know it had to be Jobs.
AT&T probably didn'tt think the phone would do as well as it did.
And at launch, it really didn't do that well. Mainly due to the high cost of the phone.
What killed AT&T's bottom line now is the subsidy costs.
Verizon is seeing this now as well.
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