Apple Jumps to #17 in Fortune 500 Rankings

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by faroZ06

Windows 7, which was supposed to fix everything (as usual), even has mistakes in it like two "Open" buttons when you right-click certain files (and the default one doesn't work). Sometimes, logging in takes 10 minutes. Not having anything like Exposé besides a few little things like Snap is a real annoyance. Developing stuff on Windows is also annoying because of the lack of anything as nice as Xcode.

Two open buttons? When? Where? I've seen nothing like this since the Win7 beta. Lack of Expose does kinda suck though, I'll admit.

And I'm sure developing on Windows does suck. All those real programmers who are always going on about how easy and straightforward it is must not know what they're talking about.

And the USB thing? If USB were only used for file transfers, you might have a point. But it's not. You use it for everything from printers to mice to drawing tablets, to everything. Considering that, and how well it generally works for doing all these things, I can't help but feel you're completely and totally wrong.

It's like people going on and on about how much better Thunderbolt is to USB, and USB is a dead technology now that it's arrived on the scene.

"Hey, guys! I've got this port that has like, a billion bandwidths per nanosecond! It can do graphics and stuff!"

*plugs mouse into port*

WOO! LOOK AT THAT CURSOR FLY!

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

...
And the USB thing? If USB were only used for file transfers, you might have a point. But it's not. You use it for everything from printers to mice to drawing tablets, to everything. Considering that, and how well it generally works for doing all these things, I can't help but feel you're completely and totally wrong.
...

...again.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

...again.

...for the fifth time.

[IJ Reilly]

From Fortune 500 to USB 3.0 in under 50 posts. A new local record for topic drift.

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by IJ Reilly

From Fortune 500 to USB 3.0 in under 50 posts. A new local record for topic drift.

...but Godwin's law hasn't been invoked, at least.

yet.

[faroZ06]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Two open buttons? When? Where? I've seen nothing like this since the Win7 beta. Lack of Expose does kinda suck though, I'll admit.

And I'm sure developing on Windows does suck. All those real programmers who are always going on about how easy and straightforward it is must not know what they're talking about.

And the USB thing? If USB were only used for file transfers, you might have a point. But it's not. You use it for everything from printers to mice to drawing tablets, to everything. Considering that, and how well it generally works for doing all these things, I can't help but feel you're completely and totally wrong.

It's like people going on and on about how much better Thunderbolt is to USB, and USB is a dead technology now that it's arrived on the scene.

"Hey, guys! I've got this port that has like, a billion bandwidths per nanosecond! It can do graphics and stuff!"

*plugs mouse into port*

WOO! LOOK AT THAT CURSOR FLY!

You want to know why USB is cheaper? It's the most popular due to support from MS, Dell, and such. A FireWire mouse, although just as good as a USB one, would not cost extra if FireWire was the standard. The advantage would be that the same cable would be used for fast file transfer, video, and stuff like mice. You could even use it for ethernet (and it's practical for this usage, too).

Oh, and I don't care about Thunderbolt because my Mac doesn't support it, and Apple doesn't even include a cable with new Macs. Fine then, forget Thunderbolt. I think the parts themselves are more expensive, too.

And the fact that the Mac programming suite is free is a big plus. My school has MS Visual, and it won't work because it's suddenly not genuine. I've used Xcode, and it's actually amazing (Xcode 4 was a big improvement).

Oh, and the two "Open" buttons occurred for me in Windows 7 Pro when I right-clicked a ".java" file. Now that I think about it, one of the most annoying errors is when Windows 7 suddenly stops being "genuine" for absolutely no reason. This happened to a lot of Windows users I know, and they ended up having to install a crack because their legit license key didn't work.

[Fandongo]

Not bad for a computer company that doesn't make computers.

Originally Posted by JHankwitz

What are you planning on doing with your new iMac and iPhone that you're not already doing with your current equipment?

Render 3D.
Mercury playback.
...basically everything Adobe.

[senorgreg]

Can I just say, that is one of the ugliest charts I have ever seen. Seriously, who thought that would look good...

[mrsir2009]

The Macs haven't been updated for ages... They usually update them much more frequently than this. Not that I mind too much - Means my 2009 MBP isn't as out of date as it could be

----------

Originally Posted by senorgreg

Can I just say, that is one of the ugliest charts I have ever seen. Seriously, who thought that would look good...

It reminds me of 80s Apple

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by faroZ06

You want to know why USB is cheaper? It's the most popular due to support from MS, Dell, and such. A FireWire mouse, although just as good as a USB one, would not cost extra if FireWire was the standard. The advantage would be that the same cable would be used for fast file transfer, video, and stuff like mice. You could even use it for ethernet (and it's practical for this usage, too).

Although, it would be rather annoying to have two cords going to the mouse, since 1394 is usually daisy-chained.

Originally Posted by faroZ06

And the fact that the Mac programming suite is free is a big plus. My school has MS Visual, and it won't work because it's suddenly not genuine.

Then the system admins at your high school are incompetent. MSDN subscriptions don't go into a "not genuine" state.

And, by the way, what is "MS Visual" - that's not a Microsoft product.

Originally Posted by faroZ06

Oh, and the two "Open" buttons occurred for me in Windows 7 Pro when I right-clicked a ".java" file.

Screen shot?

Originally Posted by faroZ06

Now that I think about it, one of the most annoying errors is when Windows 7 suddenly stops being "genuine" for absolutely no reason. This happened to a lot of Windows users I know, and they ended up having to install a crack because their legit license key didn't work.

Do you really think that anyone will believe you on this?

Serious hardware changes can affect Windows activation, but it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". Even then, a simple phone call to Microsoft will fix the situation if you're still within the license terms.

Some of your "anti-Microsoft" rants are so far away from reality it's laughable.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

Do you really think that anyone will believe you on this?

Serious hardware changes can affect Windows activation, but it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". Even then, a simple phone call to Microsoft will fix the situation if you're still within the license terms.

Some of your "anti-Microsoft" rants are so far away from reality it's laughable.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I have heard...heard being the key word here...of Windows losing it's genuine license for no apparent reason. If it does actually happen, it's apparently such a rare occurrence, it's almost a non issue. And like you said, a 5 minute call to MS is all it takes to fix it.

[electronics1201]

I think everyone is looking at this topic as "glass half full"

lets look at it this way

Without the apple retail stores, their would be no apple. period.

The way they function,operate, the experience, the fact the the employees actually care about the customers (wow who would thought this would work), a place for training,workshops, HELP WITH YOUR PRODUCTS (again, who would thought)...

..the average customer probably thinks SSD is a number, or Ivy bridge is a game, and don't know the difference between mac pro and macbook pro (itouch, oops i mean iPod touch..same thing right???)

So yeah. Sure their ads are unique, and everything looks so....clean. But really, its the relationship that comes with the products that keep the customers coming....and coming.........and coming..............and.........................................

[hkim1983]

Originally Posted by IJ Reilly

Earnings, per share. That in the end is the only thing that matters to investors, aside from dividends.

I care about solvency, the state of their A/Rs, and inventory (if they have it) aside from EPS and dividends.

[weckart]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I have heard...heard being the key word here...of Windows losing it's genuine license for no apparent reason. If it does actually happen, it's apparently such a rare occurrence, it's almost a non issue. And like you said, a 5 minute call to MS is all it takes to fix it.

This has happened to me twice on two different machines. It's more of an annoyance than anything as the main manifestation is the nagging watermark in the bottom right hand corner, but it does not stop anything from working.

Originally Posted by faroZ06

You want to know why USB is cheaper? It's the most popular due to support from MS, Dell, and such. A FireWire mouse, although just as good as a USB one, would not cost extra if FireWire was the standard.

You still need a Firewire chip in each peripheral and those run to $1-$2 a pop, so it would still cost more than usb, regardless.

[Boisv]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

Four years ago the turtle-necked overlord declared 1394 to be dead, when it was dropped from new Apple laptops.

steve-jobs-apple-firewire-dead

Any legacy 1394 usage will be quickly eliminated in favor of USB 3.0. 1394 has joined the floppy drive in the dustbin of obsolete technology.

Not true.

First of all, Macs still come with firewire ports.

Second, the video industry relies on firewire to digitize footage from most cameras. It'll still be a while before firewire is dead, and I don't think it'll be USB 3.0 that kills it. It'll more than likely be a mix of Thunderbolt and cameras recording straight to SD cards. As long as videographers are digitizing over firewire, it'll be around. And USB 3.0 may be faster, but without a USB port on your camera, it's useless for this purpose.

[Eduardo R.]

Great for Apple! I hope they keep on growing and become even stronger, while not forgetting to innovate and deliver the best possible products.

[zoetmb]

Originally Posted by Nebulator

It is all very well saying Apple is 17th by turnover, the real business measure is in profit. If you order the Fortune list by profit Apple is indeed third, however Microsoft is fourth taking $2Bn less profit on nearly $40Bn less revenue.

By normal business measurement, Microsoft is doing better as it make more $$$ profit per $$$ revenue:

Rank Co Revenue Profit
17 Apple 108,249.0 25,922.0
37 Microsoft 69,943.0 23,150.0

Only saying....

That doesn't really mean all that much. I worked for a division of a company where our net margins were so high, if we were a Fortune 500 company, we would have been #1 in margin, but we only had $300 million in revenue.

A better indicator is actually return on investment, however in Apple's case, since they have so much cash that they don't need to borrow any money, I'm not sure that's a good indicator either.

Besides, almost by definition, a software company should have better margins than a hardware company. So it's not surprising that Microsoft's profit is so close to Apple's on much lower revenue.

[Bensalama21]

If Apple is "pumping out products", then what do you call what Google/Android is doing???

[IJ Reilly]

Originally Posted by hkim1983

I care about solvency, the state of their A/Rs, and inventory (if they have it) aside from EPS and dividends.

If by solvency you mean not losing money, then of course. But that would be reflected in earnings. Dissecting the implications of accounts receivable and inventory is pretty difficult for an outsider, and since those too would ultimately be reflected in earnings, I think I'll just go for the earnings.

In any event, the point being, revenue isn't a useful measurement of business success. The reason is (I hope) too obvious to state.

[hkim1983]

Originally Posted by IJ Reilly

If by solvency you mean not losing money, then of course. But that would be reflected in earnings. Dissecting the implications of accounts receivable and inventory is pretty difficult for an outsider, and since those too would ultimately be reflected in earnings, I think I'll just go for the earnings.

In any event, the point being, revenue isn't a useful measurement of business success. The reason is (I hope) too obvious to state.

No, by solvency I mean being able to pay their bills. You can have an intangible "profit" but still become insolvent in a short period of time. What I care about is how liquid their assets are and their ability to pay their current liabilities. I don't care for "tricks" to pad their "bottom line".

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications of inventorial and receivable trends and how could impact future earnings. The degree to how much it'll impact it or whether or not the company can reverse that before the end of their next fiscal year is a different matter however.

I am not denying the significance of EPS, and I agree that gross revenue is not as important, but I care about more than just EPS, net income, and dividend yields as an investor which is what I'm pointing out in response to your blanket statement.

[faroZ06]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

Although, it would be rather annoying to have two cords going to the mouse, since 1394 is usually daisy-chained.




Then the system admins at your high school are incompetent. MSDN subscriptions don't go into a "not genuine" state.

And, by the way, what is "MS Visual" - that's not a Microsoft product.




Screen shot?




Do you really think that anyone will believe you on this?

Serious hardware changes can affect Windows activation, but it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". Even then, a simple phone call to Microsoft will fix the situation if you're still within the license terms.

Some of your "anti-Microsoft" rants are so far away from reality it's laughable.

1. Wait what? Just have it be like USB mice but with FireWire on the end instead of USB. That's possible to make.

2. If a regular Windows user cannot get MS Visual Studio to work, then the encapsulation obviously sucks. Xcode is a free download from the App Store, no hassle, and it's great.

3. I'll get one tomorrow just for you.

4. I don't know, 3 Windows fans (and "pro gamers") that I know had this problem. Their copies of Windows 7 randomly became non-genuine. It's even a meme that people use sometimes on Memebase. Not an unknown problem at all.

----------

Originally Posted by Bensalama21

If Apple is "pumping out products", then what do you call what Google/Android is doing???

Well, I don't know any Android users who even upgrade their OS, and Google is the OS maker.

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by faroZ06

1. Wait what? Just have it be like USB mice but with FireWire on the end instead of USB. That's possible to make.

How do you daisy chain 1394 devices in such a scenario?

Originally Posted by faroZ06

2. If a regular Windows user cannot get MS Visual Studio to work, then the encapsulation obviously sucks.

Microsoft's licensing for the Visual Studio suite (except for the free Express version) has certain terms and conditions. Violate those, and it won't work.

Originally Posted by faroZ06

Xcode is a free download from the App Store, no hassle, and it's great.

Of course, you've probably paid Apple a thousand dollars (or some multiple of that) to be able to download and run it. See the difference in the business models?

Originally Posted by faroZ06

3. I'll get one tomorrow just for you.

...waiting...

Originally Posted by faroZ06

4. I don't know, 3 Windows fans (and "pro gamers") that I know had this problem. Their copies of Windows 7 randomly became non-genuine. It's even a meme that people use sometimes on Memebase. Not an unknown problem at all.

You say "randomly", I said that it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". And, of course, "pro gamers" are prone to make frequent system upgrades. (BTW, what's the salary range for a "pro gamer"?)

Originally Posted by faroZ06

Well, I don't know any Android users who even upgrade their OS, and Google is the OS maker.

Most phone users never upgrade the OS. They get a phone, it does what it's been advertised to do for two years, then it's sent to the toxic waste dump and they get a new phone.

How's IOS 5 on your 2G Iphone?

[faroZ06]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

How do you daisy chain 1394 devices in such a scenario?




Microsoft's licensing for the Visual Studio suite (except for the free Express version) has certain terms and conditions. Violate those, and it won't work.




Of course, you've probably paid Apple a thousand dollars (or some multiple of that) to be able to download and run it. See the difference in the business models?




...waiting...




You say "randomly", I said that it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". And, of course, "pro gamers" are prone to make frequent system upgrades. (BTW, what's the salary range for a "pro gamer"?)




Most phone users never upgrade the OS. They get a phone, it does what it's been advertised to do for two years, then it's sent to the toxic waste dump and they get a new phone.

How's IOS 5 on your 2G Iphone?

1. You just don't connect anything else to the mouse. It won't be daisy-chained.

2. The terms and conditions are apparently hard to meet. This is why I avoid/crack stuff with these annoying license keys (crack if I actually bought it, of course).

3. I paid Apple nothing to download Xcode. It's free. I mean, besides actually having a Mac in the first place. You can get it from the App Store or from your software recovery disc.

5. Upgrading your system should not cause it to lock up. We should also probably explain to these gamers that gaming is not a job. Once you consider a game "serious", you're in a bit far. There are people who memorize strategies for Age of Empires II and use them (in 2012, that is, and the game came out in 1998).

6. Actually, I have an iPhone 4 now. But my iPhone 2G is still rockin' the AFP and SSH servers and hacks I installed all over the place . Apple would either kill me or make me their manager if I brought it in for tech support (probably kill me).

[faroZ06]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

...waiting...




You say "randomly", I said that it doesn't occur "for absolutely no reason". And, of course, "pro gamers" are prone to make frequent system upgrades. (BTW, what's the salary range for a "pro gamer"?)

OK, here it is. I found out that our Windows 7 machine also has this problem (it's running Home Premium and not Pro, like my school is). I took the screenshot with my camera because the computer was out of wifi range, so I couldn't email it to myself.

And I did not expect this at all, but when I left the room, my brother asked me what I did with the computer. He said that I made it un-genuine. He supposedly got that error after I took a screenshot of the two "open" buttons, but he turned it off before he told me about it. I know this sounds really unlikely, and I was surprised, but it did just happen without any kind of updates.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally Posted by hkim1983

No, by solvency I mean being able to pay their bills. You can have an intangible "profit" but still become insolvent in a short period of time. What I care about is how liquid their assets are and their ability to pay their current liabilities. I don't care for "tricks" to pad their "bottom line".

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications of inventorial and receivable trends and how could impact future earnings. The degree to how much it'll impact it or whether or not the company can reverse that before the end of their next fiscal year is a different matter however.

I am not denying the significance of EPS, and I agree that gross revenue is not as important, but I care about more than just EPS, net income, and dividend yields as an investor which is what I'm pointing out in response to your blanket statement.

Fair enough. Did you notice, we are the only people discussing the topic of the thread?