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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:22 PM   #26
ThisIsNotMe
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
It will be interesting to see if the so-called "fair and square" pricing holds without big sales during the next holiday season when everyone else goes all out for the big black Friday events. I know I saw an interview earlier this year where he said they would like to get away from the 4 am opening and crazy discounts on that day. It will be interesting to see if they stick with that.
Its amazing how much of a gimmick Black Friday has become.

I would rather have cheaper prices year round then a massive sale on a single day of the year.

That being said, it is more psychological than anything. Every time I am at Target I hit up their $9.99 Blu-Ray section. Usually find a movie I don't already own and justify my marginal interest in the movie by the low price.

Anyways I cannot remember the last time I shopped at JCP. I am have walk through the store every time I go to the mall but usually end up shopping at Macys which has clothing more my style. Not really sure what differentiates their product from Target or Sears.
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Old Jun 6, 2012, 07:31 AM   #27
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it'll take months or years to turn JC Penney around. it took Steve several years to turn Apple around.
Try taking your politics to PRSI, rather than simply displaying your political signature here.

Thanks.

EDIT: Never mind, you did, although how you did it is still a mystery.

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Old Jun 6, 2012, 09:39 AM   #28
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I've started to go there in the last couple of months because of their prices. I NEVER went to the mall>I now go because of JCP. I'm not big on their politics, why companies get into politics is beyond me>give your money to kids cancer, everyone is for it and the cause is great.
I've spent about a $1,000 there over the last few months on clothes (lost 50 pounds). I'm not keeping up with or caring about the stock price, just the deal I get.
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Old Jun 6, 2012, 12:20 PM   #29
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You make some good points but old line retailers need to change r they'll go the way of the bookstore. I'm betting on the guy who shaped Target and created the Apple Stores.
Soooo…we risk a future where we buy all of our clothes from either Amazon or download digital copies of clothing (which would be projected on our bodies) from Apple? I can’t wait for Apple to launch the iClothes store.

Buying clothes online is iffy. There is no standard fit for most clothing. Therefore, there still needs to be physical clothes stores. The only way you will find something that fits right is to try it on first. “Virtual fitting” is too limited in scope right now and I imagine most people would probably not want their bodies scanned. Where would we buy clothes if not places like JC Penny or Sears? Especially, if you don’t want to pay the higher prices that Macy’s charges….
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Old Jun 6, 2012, 07:24 PM   #30
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You can love or hate Ron's methods, but to say that JC Penney needed an "evolution, not a revolution" is just plain wrong. JC Penney was falling into exactly the same trap that Sears did back in the 90s, but, unlike Sears, they don't have a successful hard lines division to keep the company afloat while the soft lines lost out to huge increases in competition from Big Box retailers and online retailers. Their customers have become so used to constant sales that they can never get anything approaching a sustainable margin on the merchandise they sell. Selling at a loss and making it up in volume is a fast road to bankruptcy.

Ron is betting the company on his way -- for better or worse. In the end, they'll either attract a new, somewhat more upscale, somewhat more trendy, client base, that wants to support the new company, or they won't. They were going to fail anyway, but they could fail much faster now.

But, while some things have changed quickly (cleanliness, professionalism of associates, pricing), many of the most important changes (vendors and actual merchandise) take far longer to change in fashion than they do in say electronics. Buyers had already purchased spring lines before he took the position. His influence can't easily be measured until this fall, when his new direction comes through in terms of fashion and quality.
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Old Jun 6, 2012, 07:58 PM   #31
rdowns
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Originally Posted by Antares View Post
Soooo…we risk a future where we buy all of our clothes from either Amazon or download digital copies of clothing (which would be projected on our bodies) from Apple? I can’t wait for Apple to launch the iClothes store.

Buying clothes online is iffy. There is no standard fit for most clothing. Therefore, there still needs to be physical clothes stores. The only way you will find something that fits right is to try it on first. “Virtual fitting” is too limited in scope right now and I imagine most people would probably not want their bodies scanned. Where would we buy clothes if not places like JC Penny or Sears? Especially, if you don’t want to pay the higher prices that Macy’s charges….

All the department stores have been hurting for years. They function, to some degree, as fitting rooms for Amazon and other online retailers much like Circuit City was once a showroom for online retailers with Best Buy slowly becoming the same.

JCP's Board knew what they were getting in Johnson and his radical plans. That's why they hired him.
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Old Jun 7, 2012, 08:36 PM   #32
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The biggest problem with JCP, in my mind, is how it has been ousted from its old position due to developments at both the low and high end.

JCP used to be the place to go for clothes if labels were unimportant and value was a factor. Suddenly, Wally World started to expand and began to carry similar type merchandise. The same thing happened with Target. At the high end, Macy's bought out many regional stores and streamlined the merchandise (all were carrying higher end brands like Ralph Lauren). Caught in the middle were Sears and JCP.

Then there are the steps between these stores. Belk, for example, slots nicely between JCP and Macy's. It doesn't have some of the highest end merchandise but has a decent variety. Kohl's is perhaps most comparable to JCP but mostly operates in big box centers, which works better for people trying to avoid malls for whatever reason.

Sears has its troubles, but at least they have Craftsman and Kenmore to go back on. JCP really has nothing to set it apart from other stores.

The question--what exactly is JCP trying to become? Target and Wally World are already dominating the discount sector and seem unlikely to be unseated. Kohl's is an obvious target, but the stores are completely different in terms of layout and location. Macy's is pretty large right now in terms of bourgeoisie department stores; it seems unlikely it will lose its position anytime soon.

It's good to see a company trying to reinvent when it needs to, but if the company has no clear direction as to how it will reinvent, there will be failure.
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Old Jun 8, 2012, 10:00 PM   #33
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Johnson changes his mind and will start having "sales" again.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_1...ag=re1.channel
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 08:55 AM   #34
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I honestly believe my single case accounts for their 20% drop:

Used to go on big sale days and get insane stuff like $50 pants for $5 ... there would usually be like 1 pair in my size left, so it was take it or it will be gone forevermore (new design the next season)... this meant sales days would be a quick $300+ expenditure, trying to snag everything possible to cover me the next 6 months.

Last time I went in there... everything is like, oh $20 jeans, that's a reasonable price -- not the $40-60 of before -- and yet I have no reason to pull the trigger because I could come back next week and get it for EXACTLY THE SAME $. So I ended up buying 3 t-shirts for $10 total and that was all I got. Haven't been in there in 4-5 months.

Sales = pressure to buy now rather than say "Hey, I can come back any time and it is the same"
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 10:19 PM   #35
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I honestly believe my single case accounts for their 20% drop:

Used to go on big sale days and get insane stuff like $50 pants for $5 ... there would usually be like 1 pair in my size left, so it was take it or it will be gone forevermore (new design the next season)... this meant sales days would be a quick $300+ expenditure, trying to snag everything possible to cover me the next 6 months.

Last time I went in there... everything is like, oh $20 jeans, that's a reasonable price -- not the $40-60 of before -- and yet I have no reason to pull the trigger because I could come back next week and get it for EXACTLY THE SAME $. So I ended up buying 3 t-shirts for $10 total and that was all I got. Haven't been in there in 4-5 months.

Sales = pressure to buy now rather than say "Hey, I can come back any time and it is the same"
JCP is designing a world where you just buy what you want when you want it. You have chosen instead to buy second chance merchandise when they say you can because. It is irrational and yet there are plenty of other retail stores willing to trick you.

I don't shop there often, but mostly because I find the merchandise very cheap. And yet the pricing structure appeals. I think they just haven't found their price point yet. A $20 pair of old navy quality jeans is not my bag. A $40 pair of jeans with Levi quality and Calvin style I would buy.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 09:21 AM   #36
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JCP is designing a world where you just buy what you want when you want it. You have chosen instead to buy second chance merchandise when they say you can because. It is irrational and yet there are plenty of other retail stores willing to trick you.
The thing is -- it would be nice for say /food/ -- have what I want when I want it, because I *need* food. The problem is that every time I go clothes shopping whether I get 1 item or 30 items, all the items were optional! I don't actually need any clothes. I can do laundry once per 6 months if I like, ... new clothes have to appeal to me strongly enough (usually combo of style+price) that I am willing to buy them to push old clothes out of the closet and into the "for Goodwill" bag.

Now a days I depend on my mom to tell me her huge dillard's card and stacking coupon scams and go in and get some nice Calvin Klein shirts like $10 etc.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 07:40 PM   #37
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But what about Miami Vice!? Nash Bridges!? His star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame?

Ohhh..., right... sorry, nevermind.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 05:34 PM   #38
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...I know I saw an interview earlier this year where he said they would like to get away from the 4 am opening and crazy discounts on that day. It will be interesting to see if they stick with that.
OMG!!! 4 am to buy some JCPenney's cloths?
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 07:22 PM   #39
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Its amazing how much of a gimmick Black Friday has become.

I would rather have cheaper prices year round then a massive sale on a single day of the year....
It is even worse than you say. Mostly prices remain the same on that day and in many cases they go up for the "Sale". Yes they mark down some items to get you in but mostly prices can't move much. Yes shoppers are really stupid. Half are 50th percentile or lower.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 11:50 PM   #40
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^ I'll agree with that.
The upshot of the remainder of the article is that consumers expect to be tricked, to be told that a $40 pair of pants is a bargain if the retailer originally sold it at $80 and marked it down to $60. It's $20 off, so it's a better deal, right? Right??
When I walk into a store and find a shirt for $15 that was originally marked $80, I do feel like I got a better deal on a higher quality shirt. I do that all the time at a nearby outlet mall with various brand name shops.

When I walk into the new JCP and see a $15 shirt, I figure it is a piece-of-crap $15 shirt. It's like going to Wal-Mart for clothing.

I guess I am just stupid and have been conditioned to think this way. It is a hard emotional response to break.

But do you really think JCP is selling that cheap stuff with less markup than everyone else? In other words, is that $15 JCP shirt really the same quality that everyone else tries to sell for $80? The last time I passed through JCP the stuff on the rack just didn't feel like quality clothing to me -- it seemed like it is just $15 crap.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 12:11 AM   #41
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Sears has its troubles, but at least they have Craftsman and Kenmore to go back on. JCP really has nothing to set it apart from other stores.
Sears is dead it just refuses to accept it. Craftsman is not the same quality it was and Kenmore is crap. The death blow to Sears was getting bought out by KMart.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 06:04 PM   #42
DakotaGuy
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Sears is dead it just refuses to accept it. Craftsman is not the same quality it was and Kenmore is crap. The death blow to Sears was getting bought out by KMart.
Sears no doubt has it's problems, however their balance sheet is still much stronger then JCP. Kenmore is good stuff... pretty much made by Whirlpool, but it is one of the most popular appliance brands in the US and does pretty well with Consumer Reports. Never had much issue with Craftsman tools or other products. It's decent mass market stuff.

With that said both stores face serious issues and i doubt either will be around in their same form in 5 years. Walmart owns brick and mortar retail in the US and the rest fight for scraps.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 04:18 AM   #43
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...Is this what we've come to? Are we this stupid in our decision-making? Are we so used to being yanked around that when a store tries to play honest with us, we suspect there's something wrong??...
Unfortunately, YES! And it's been this way for a LONG time

A friend of mine once told me about a conversation he had with a buddy who worked as an engineer designing washing machines. My friend asked him why they couldn't design a quieter machine.

My friend's buddy replied that they actually made the machine LOUDER on purpose! Why? Because they found that if the washing machine was too quiet, the US consumers didn't like it, thinking it wasn't washing the clothes as well as the louder machines.

Yeah, completely retarded, but true. It's only recently that I've seen washing machine marketing material talking about how quietly they run, but I'm sure you can still find plenty of people who go for the louder "better" machines.

We are a country where children aspire to be rock stars and bball/football athletes. They cant read/write at their grade level, and their math aptitude is lower than that of kids in just about every other industrialized country (probably lower than many 3rd world countries).

If you think things are bad now, just wait and see how bad it gets in 30 years or so.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 06:42 PM   #44
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From Bloomberg, June 18:

J.C. Penney Co. (JCP) said its head of merchandising and marketing is leaving and Chief Executive Officer Ron Johnson will take over his duties, following a pricing strategy that backfired with shoppers.

Michael Francis, who joined Johnson at the company in October, is leaving effective today, Plano, Texas-based J.C. Penney said in a statement. The company didn’t give a reason for Francis’s departure.

Francis is the first of Johnson’s major hires to leave since he took charge of J.C. Penney last year after serving as head of Apple Inc. (AAPL)’s retail operations. Johnson hired Francis away from Target Corp. (TGT), where he had served as chief marketing officer.

In January, Johnson unveiled his four-year plan to transform J.C. Penney into America’s favorite store. In a presentation to investors and suppliers, he described a department store built around a so-called town square, with as many as 100 boutiques carrying items made by well-known brands specifically for J.C. Penney. The first store-within-a-store he announced will sell home goods by Martha Stewart.

J.C. Penney fell 5 percent to $23.11 at 4:45 p.m. in New York.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 07:04 PM   #45
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People still shop at JCPenny? Haven't been to one since the 1980's.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 10:26 PM   #46
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Sears is dead it just refuses to accept it. Craftsman is not the same quality it was and Kenmore is crap. The death blow to Sears was getting bought out by KMart.
I thought it was the other way around? Sears bought K-Mart. I'm not trying to correct you, I actually would like to know who bought who. :/

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Old Jun 24, 2012, 02:08 PM   #47
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To add to this thread, I just shopped there about two weeks ago to get some Dockers and whatnot for work.

I was legitimately surprised about the prices -- items were what they were supposed to be, not marked up 200% (like Macy's) -- if I remember correctly, the average price of the pants were $25-30.

Also, the store was much cleaner than the usual JCP chaos.

I think the issue lies with the consumer -- people are dumb. I'd rather pay $25-30 everyday than have regular prices of $65-70 with the occasional sale to put the price back down to where it should be, which of course only occurred when the stock wasn't moving well. Marginal sales were of course a lot more common -- people would think they were getting a great deal when they got 20% off something that was 230% overpriced.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 06:41 PM   #48
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Add me to another person who shopped at JC Penny. I did compare prices with Dillards and Macy's. Oh boy did I have a treat at JCP. JCP had cheaper always. Same tees at Macy's were $30 more.

Shoes? $80 more.... JCP gained a customer after having lost it.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:40 AM   #49
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When I walk into a store and find a shirt for $15 that was originally marked $80, I do feel like I got a better deal on a higher quality shirt. I do that all the time at a nearby outlet mall with various brand name shops.

When I walk into the new JCP and see a $15 shirt, I figure it is a piece-of-crap $15 shirt. It's like going to Wal-Mart for clothing.

I guess I am just stupid and have been conditioned to think this way. It is a hard emotional response to break.

But do you really think JCP is selling that cheap stuff with less markup than everyone else? In other words, is that $15 JCP shirt really the same quality that everyone else tries to sell for $80? The last time I passed through JCP the stuff on the rack just didn't feel like quality clothing to me -- it seemed like it is just $15 crap.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:23 PM   #50
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I thought it was the other way around? Sears bought K-Mart. I'm not trying to correct you, I actually would like to know who bought who. :/

Hugh
K-Mart bought Sears. Hard to believe, considering K-Mart had just gone through a serious downsizing just a few years before.
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