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Old May 17, 2012, 01:23 PM   #26
koolmagicguy
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Originally Posted by JoEw View Post
Is 20 mega watts a lot?
There are 1,000 kW in one MW.

The average American home uses 29 kW per day or 10,600 kW per year. Some use more, some use less.

The plant could power a small city of 5-8 thousand homes every year.

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Originally Posted by iMacoo7 View Post
Its enough to power to keep things up and running for a good while if need be.
1 Megawatt = 106 watts
You're off by only a few hundred. 1,000 kW in one MW.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:23 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tigres View Post
should be 1.21 gigawatts, but I guess were not there yet.
But Apple won't make any cables big enough for that.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by iZac View Post
Great news that Apple are paving the way for responsible electrical generation!

Does anyone else find it amusing that a Solar farm is to begin operations on December 21st ... Winter Solstice - the shortest day of the year?
Best day to launch for several reasons really. Main one would be its the day the would get the lowest output. This allows batteries etc to be brought up to charge in a safer manner.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bobr1952 View Post
So true. I am all for protecting the environment and all that but really--couldn't Greenpeace have find a better target than Apple? I mean regardless of how much energy the data center may use, it still has to be way down on the list of environmental polluters. But it is good to hear they will have a solar farm there to help with the power load.
So sad... When I was growing up, they were protesting factories discharging untreated toxic waste into rivers and nuclear bomb tests that were releasing radioactivity into the atmosphere. Now, they are reduced to sensationalist hit pieces attacking whomever would get them more page views, while there are still tons of factories in the third world spewing real toxic waste into the water and air.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BassPlayer View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but is 20 megawatts a constant? Is it peak production? Is it over time? And just how much is the data farm expected to require? Will this 20 megawatts completely supply the data farm, essentially becoming self-sufficient, or is it still going to require electricity from "the grid"?

It sounds good, but exactly what are we talking about here?
Typically solar wattage is rated at peak sunlight. The average hours can vary greatly by region based on average cloud cover, day length and so forth. From the chart I have seen in NC it is 3 to 3.9 hours. There more usable hours they just are not as efficient.

The rest is all assumption. If their intention is to be 100% green and off the grid. Then this solar farm should be sufficient for electrolysis of water into hydrogen an oxygen. The hydrogen could then be used to fuel the fuel cells. Heck they could get even more return by using the fuel cell exhaust to heat boilers for a steam engine.

5 megawatts could run a lot of computers and hard drives along with an HVAC system and other neeeded systems.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:36 PM   #31
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Does anyone else find it amusing that a Solar farm is to begin operations on December 21st ... Winter Solstice - the shortest day of the year?
Now we know what the 2012 phenomenon is really about!
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by One Bad Duck View Post
If its a power plant - lol - why do they have so many lights on - Turn all those little lanterns at the front off and you've already saved a few watts. Cmon guys

/hehe
That's the data center. Power plant is not shown.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TxLoneRider View Post
Oh, and a backup power source. Since their is no way to store that much power.


But correlates very poorly with home charging of electric vehicles, and person energy use.
This is why nearly all solar installations are attached to the grid. The excess power at noon simply goes into the city's grid and helps out. Your average home with solar sells electric all day and buys it all night. The plan (as in, how many panels to put up) for the individual is to come out even on price so you have no electric bill. Over the year, that is.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:44 PM   #34
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New marketing slogan: Apple where clouds are powered by the sun.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoEw View Post
Is 20 mega watts a lot?
It's able to power ~250,000 servers, you tell me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocityg4 View Post
Typically solar wattage is rated at peak sunlight. The average hours can vary greatly by region based on average cloud cover, day length and so forth. From the chart I have seen in NC it is 3 to 3.9 hours. There more usable hours they just are not as efficient.

The rest is all assumption. If their intention is to be 100% green and off the grid. Then this solar farm should be sufficient for electrolysis of water into hydrogen an oxygen. The hydrogen could then be used to fuel the fuel cells. Heck they could get even more return by using the fuel cell exhaust to heat boilers for a steam engine.

5 megawatts could run a lot of computers and hard drives along with an HVAC system and other neeeded systems.
And they could sell the Oxygen to an Oxygen bottling company.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:46 PM   #36
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[QUOTE=TxLoneRider;14880665]Really, 20 MegaWatt, is likely peek capacity at time of manufacture.

Solar panels can loose up to 10% of their rated value per year. They also need to be cleaned and will require maintenance.

Baloney.
Every photovoltaic panel sold today is guaranteed to deliver >90% of rated power for 20 or 25 years (depending on manufacturer), and 20 MW is a lot of power, which will only increase for the first 6 mos. of operation (as it's targeted to come online at the winter solstice)
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by One Bad Duck View Post
If its a power plant - lol - why do they have so many lights on - Turn all those little lanterns at the front off and you've already saved a few watts. Cmon guys

/hehe
So someone can trip and break their neck?
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:50 PM   #38
manu chao
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Originally Posted by koolmagicguy View Post
The average American home uses 29 kW per day or 10,600 kW per year. Some use more, some use less.
You almost certainly meant kWh not kW. A 20 MW photovoltaic power plant might produce at most 200 MWh per day, ie, using your numbers, supply roughly 7000 households with electricity (ignoring the storage issue).
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:52 PM   #39
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Take that Greenpeace!
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JAT View Post
But Apple won't make any cables big enough for that.
They just need to route it through the iFlux, and reverse the polarity.
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Old May 17, 2012, 01:55 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by basesloaded190 View Post
And yet, Greenpeace will find something to complain about with this.
Mostly the lack of being given advance notice from Apple in order for Greenpeace to then try to claim credit for it ...


20MW = 20,000 kW; which if assuming 8 'full' hours of sun per day for production, would be 160,000kW-hrs/day. Compared to a typical home (rounded up to 30kW-hr/day), this would power 5000+ homes (ignores losses from power storage for overnight, etc).


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Old May 17, 2012, 02:02 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by basesloaded190 View Post
And yet, Greenpeace will find something to complain about with this.
Of course. All that solar energy used to enter the environment, providing warmth & light to whatever lived on/in/under those many acres. Now with "solar strip mining" everything there will die from lack of energy, just so you can "Match" your songs among various luxury devices. As green energy sources are being rolled out into major production, we're finding they do have negative effects on the local environment when implemented on any meaningful scale.

Just facts. I don't have a problem with it. Greenpeace will.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Bad Duck View Post
If its a power plant - lol - why do they have so many lights on - Turn all those little lanterns at the front off and you've already saved a few watts.
Those lamps consume less than 0.05% of the plant's output. Let 'em indulge in a little luxury (or are you going to give up your iDevices?).

A dark power plant just looks ... wrong.
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Old May 17, 2012, 02:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by TxLoneRider View Post
Really, 20 MegaWatt, is likely peek capacity at time of manufacture.
Oh, and a backup power source. Since their is no way to store that much power.
This article talks about their biofuel (essentially natural gas from animal source) generators. Apparently, the rules say it's OK to burn a fossil fuel -- as long as the fuel isn't coming from fossil sources.

Quote:
Seriously, solar panel energy capture does correlate well with industrial power peeks somewhat well, and correlates well with air conditioning needs and charging electric cars at work.
That should be the case here: the biggest loads will be the removal of heat from the plant.

Welcome to the MR forums, TxLoneRider.

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Old May 17, 2012, 02:17 PM   #44
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So much for "insanely great products." What a waste of money. This company has lost its discipline and will surely go down the tubes over the next ten years.
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Old May 17, 2012, 02:23 PM   #45
SvK
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That's awesome Apple....

Now stick to your progressive roots which have served you well and stop meeting with John Boner.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
New marketing slogan: Apple where clouds are powered by the sun.
I like it!
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Old May 17, 2012, 02:27 PM   #46
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And yet, Greenpeace will find something to complain about with this.
...or try to take credit for Apple's initiative which has been in process for months now.
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Old May 17, 2012, 02:34 PM   #47
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Author, would you kindly stop over-using the words official and officially? They superfluous. Had there been an "unofficial" approval? No. Had there been any "unofficial" applications? No. Try just saying "The application was approved."
The same thing goes for when Apple releases a product. It's not necessary to say "Apple today officially released the iPhone 5." As Apple doesn't unofficially release products or updates, there is no need to say officially. Thanks.
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Old May 17, 2012, 03:02 PM   #48
iAshley
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Originally Posted by JoEw View Post
Is 20 mega watts a lot?
Kilowatt, 1,000 watts
Megawatt, 1,000,000 watts
Enough to power over 16,000 60 watt light bulbs.
20 megawatts could power over 333,000 60 watt light bulbs
Or like the article says over 10,000 homes.
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Old May 17, 2012, 03:28 PM   #49
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Of course. All that solar energy used to enter the environment, providing warmth & light to whatever lived on/in/under those many acres. Now with "solar strip mining" everything there will die from lack of energy, just so you can "Match" your songs among various luxury devices. As green energy sources are being rolled out into major production, we're finding they do have negative effects on the local environment when implemented on any meaningful scale.
Uhm, no.

Here's a calculation. (7,926 mi/2)2 x 3.14159 is the area of the disk of incident light on the earth.

Which is about 49 Million square miles. Apple's stated solar installation is on a parcel of 170 acre or about 1/4 square mile. Even then, you would still need to have the surface area perpendicular to the sun of the whole installation of panels to really do an accurate calculation. I assumed that 100 percent of the panels are perpendicular to the sun and that there is 170 acre of coverage just to be conservative on the calculation.

.25 / 49 million which approximates 1 part in 200 million, which is pretty darn insignificant.

And that doesn't take into account inefficiencies of the solar panel.

Next you will want to tell me about how a Hummer is more energy efficient than a Prious, which by the way it isn't.
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Old May 17, 2012, 04:37 PM   #50
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Uhm, no. ... pretty darn insignificant.
Yeah, it's insignificant on a large scale. Doesn't bother me - but Greenpeace will latch onto it anyway.

My point (well, the point which Greenpeace will make) is that 170 acres will now be covered with opaque panels, which both shades the area (depriving everything thereunder from light), and by converting some percentage to electricity siphons off some energy from any ambient heating effects thus cooling the area further. Yeah, it's not an appreciable fraction of the earth's disc, but whatever lived on that 170 acres will be affected. And this is not taking into account the environmental impact of making a quarter-square-mile of solar panels.

They're making a comparable fuss about wind farms, so expect the same here. Deployed on a meaningful scale on par with national/world electricity consumption, there will be non-trivial negative environmental effects.

I think the consequences are worth it.
I want a Hummer too, and make no bones about it being less energy efficient than a Pious.
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