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Old May 18, 2012, 07:32 PM   #1
jbowden07
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How to Remove a Dove Macsnap?

Hello everyone, i'm new to the site, so hopefully i'm posting in the right section, if not forgive me

I have recently bought an original Macintosh 128k M0001, it came today and found out, after some research, it has a Dove MacSnap Memory & scsi upgrade.


What i need help with is how to remove the Dove Macsnap Expansion, both the scsi expansion & memory expspansion. I basically want it in the original 128k condition.

Also, my second question is, when i turn it on, the screen is a white/ grey pattern for like 5 seconds, then i goes to the "?" floppy logo. Why is their a hesitation? is it warming up or what?

Thanks for the help!
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Old May 19, 2012, 09:04 AM   #2
Lil Chillbil
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The flashing question-mark means that there is no usable software to boot off of whatever you do don't destroy it like I did mine. The computer is fine you just have to find software like 1.1 or something. But considering that it took me 2 years to find a copy of puma software that is only 10 years old and you want to find software that is 30 years old good luck
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Old May 19, 2012, 03:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil View Post
The flashing question-mark means that there is no usable software to boot off of whatever you do don't destroy it like I did mine. The computer is fine you just have to find software like 1.1 or something. But considering that it took me 2 years to find a copy of puma software that is only 10 years old and you want to find software that is 30 years old good luck
I know that about the "?" mark, i'm not new to vintage tech, i have a Mac512k, MacSE, and lots of others I also have older software for the mac because my mac512k was my mom's college computer and have tons of software for it and some 128k compatible. What i was asking is, instead of turning it on, and going straight to that screen, it goes to a grey screen then that screen, it hesitates, unlike my 512k, and how to remove the dove macsnap memory upgrade, i want it to the original 128k.
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Old May 20, 2012, 09:43 PM   #4
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From what I know the macsnap just clipped on from spring loaded clips over the original ram

----------

oh and I just remembered steve jobs built that thing like a brick and inside every 128k was the signatures of the entire mac team. And never wanted anybody but technicians in there. anyways when you open it if its realy there post pics of the signatures.
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Old May 21, 2012, 08:57 AM   #5
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There are two boards involved. One adds a SCSI port, the other additional RAM.

You'll need to disassemble the case, taking care to feed the SCSI cable that sits in the battery bay back into the case as you remove the rear case.

Next, (IIRC), unplug the SCSI cable from the SCSI board before removing the motherboard. Take EXTRA care not to whack the rear of the tube and/or neck board when the cable releases.

The two boards essentially "clip" on the original logic board. Swap the ROM chips from the smaller SCSI board back into the 128K motherboard. There should be one extra wire from the SCSI board which either clips or is soldered to Pin 8 of the "TSM" PAL chip at motherboard location "D1".

IIRC, the memory upgrade board should just unclip from the CPU and about 4 or 5 smaller ICs. Lifting the memory upgrade gradually, prizing by a small amount around the edges equally should eventually pop it from the motherboard.

You will also need a new battery bay cover (unless you still have the original that was saved when the upgrade was done). It's not vital, but finishes the "look" of the rear.

IIRC, the longer boot time is due to POST taking longer to test the extra memory.

After removal, you should probably check the +5 volt adjustment is within spec.

This page should reveal SOME of what you can expect to see.

http://www.vintagemacworld.com/macsnap.html
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Last edited by MacTech68; May 21, 2012 at 09:12 AM.
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Old May 21, 2012, 09:56 AM   #6
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I would simply sell this Mac and buy another 128K. I think the model you have, with a SCSI card, is more desirable and I'm sure someone would like to have it. I wish my Mac 512k had a SCSI port on it!

This also takes the risk out of hurting your Mac (or yourself by touching the CRT) while trying to remove the SCSI & RAM additions. Why not keep it? The extra RAM is great, I wouldn't want to take RAM out of an old Mac, they need all of the RAM you can get your hands on!

Good luck!

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Old May 21, 2012, 03:19 PM   #7
jbowden07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeiBook86 View Post
I would simply sell this Mac and buy another 128K. I think the model you have, with a SCSI card, is more desirable and I'm sure someone would like to have it. I wish my Mac 512k had a SCSI port on it!

This also takes the risk out of hurting your Mac (or yourself by touching the CRT) while trying to remove the SCSI & RAM additions. Why not keep it? The extra RAM is great, I wouldn't want to take RAM out of an old Mac, they need all of the RAM you can get your hands on!

Good luck!

-Steve
Well, i kind of getting used to the idea of the upgrade, still not sure. The main reason why i wanted it gone is because the modded battery door doesn't fit flush, it bulges a bit, i might just tuck the scsi in the battery compartment, then put the original battery door on, so it looks normal, and if i need it it will be there


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTech68 View Post
There are two boards involved. One adds a SCSI port, the other additional RAM.

You'll need to disassemble the case, taking care to feed the SCSI cable that sits in the battery bay back into the case as you remove the rear case.

Next, (IIRC), unplug the SCSI cable from the SCSI board before removing the motherboard. Take EXTRA care not to whack the rear of the tube and/or neck board when the cable releases.

The two boards essentially "clip" on the original logic board. Swap the ROM chips from the smaller SCSI board back into the 128K motherboard. There should be one extra wire from the SCSI board which either clips or is soldered to Pin 8 of the "TSM" PAL chip at motherboard location "D1".

IIRC, the memory upgrade board should just unclip from the CPU and about 4 or 5 smaller ICs. Lifting the memory upgrade gradually, prizing by a small amount around the edges equally should eventually pop it from the motherboard.

You will also need a new battery bay cover (unless you still have the original that was saved when the upgrade was done). It's not vital, but finishes the "look" of the rear.

IIRC, the longer boot time is due to POST taking longer to test the extra memory.

After removal, you should probably check the +5 volt adjustment is within spec.

This page should reveal SOME of what you can expect to see.

http://www.vintagemacworld.com/macsnap.html
Thanks for the instruction on how to do it, i really appreciate it!
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Old May 21, 2012, 03:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jbowden07 View Post
Well, i kind of getting used to the idea of the upgrade, still not sure. The main reason why i wanted it gone is because the modded battery door doesn't fit flush, it bulges a bit, i might just tuck the scsi in the battery compartment, then put the original battery door on, so it looks normal, and if i need it it will be there

Thanks for the instruction on how to do it, i really appreciate it!
Despite your desire to "go original", which I wholely understand, I have to agree with LimeiBook86. If it's working reliably, it may be better to leave it fitted.

I used to find the memory upgrade boards unreliable in their fit, since the connectors didn't always seem to mate snugly with different manufacturers ICs. However, if it IS working and is stable, perhaps it is better to leave it. As LimeiBook86 says, you WILL appreciate the extra RAM.

The SCSI board never suffered the same problem as it plugged into the ROM sockets, though I often soldered the wire rather than use the clip.
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Last edited by MacTech68; May 21, 2012 at 03:41 PM.
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Old May 22, 2012, 10:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTech68 View Post
Despite your desire to "go original", which I wholely understand, I have to agree with LimeiBook86. If it's working reliably, it may be better to leave it fitted.

I used to find the memory upgrade boards unreliable in their fit, since the connectors didn't always seem to mate snugly with different manufacturers ICs. However, if it IS working and is stable, perhaps it is better to leave it. As LimeiBook86 says, you WILL appreciate the extra RAM.

The SCSI board never suffered the same problem as it plugged into the ROM sockets, though I often soldered the wire rather than use the clip.
Very well put. I think i'm changing my opinion some... i want an original state Macintosh 128k for my collection, but having an upgraded 128k is pretty neat also. Plus to, the floppy has been upgraded to an 800k drive, and i can't seem to find an 400k drive for sale online. More than likely i leave it alone, but i atleast want to get a new case back for it since it's scratched some.

I probably leave the upgrade where it is, and just get another 128k already un-upgraded someday.

Since i'm thinking of keeping the Expansion, what kind of external scsi hard drives will work with it?

Last edited by jbowden07; May 23, 2012 at 01:10 AM.
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Old May 23, 2012, 06:33 AM   #10
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... Since i'm thinking of keeping the Expansion, what kind of external scsi hard drives will work with it?
Pretty much any, but more likely passive termination, SCSI narrow 50Pin for the drive, (SCSI-1 or SCSI-2), with "unit-attention" disabled, IIRC.

But don't be spooked by that. The 25pin SCSI connector is the same pinout found on the MacPlus and every on-board SCSI Mac thereafter. An external SCSI drive with a DB-25 or Centronics 50 Pin connector should do the job.
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Old Jun 18, 2014, 10:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil View Post
The flashing question-mark means that there is no usable software to boot off of whatever you do don't destroy it like I did mine. The computer is fine you just have to find software like 1.1 or something. But considering that it took me 2 years to find a copy of puma software that is only 10 years old and you want to find software that is 30 years old good luck
Finding 80's Mac Software is incredibly easy thankfully. You can get any OS you want.
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