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Old May 26, 2012, 12:01 AM   #51
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I have three of them so far. Beautiful device, fantastic interface and highly functional. Right up Apple's alley. Was developed with Al Gore VC money, so there are lots of Apple connections here
He No Just Invented The Internet Now This Thing Too!
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:12 AM   #52
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I'm buying it

I'm buying it tomorrow at Lowe's. I just hope they're still in stock.

I'm fed up with other dumb and smart thermostats. You need to have a master degree to be able to make use of them. The interface is just stupidly complicated for no reason. The operation is just stupid. Notice I use a couple of "stupid"? Yeah, that's how I think of those thermostats. I keep thinking to myself, why don't they just make it simple and easy to use like the iPhone and iPod. I thought all hopes were lost, but now, NEST is making it like it should be. I'm buying it.
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:20 AM   #53
IJ Reilly
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It totally slipped my mind that this needs power somehow. Not sure how it works (I don't know much about HVAC or thermostats in general) but looks like it charges itself? I wonder if maybe Nest uses a a better Li-ion battery similar to the batteries in MacBooks with longer lifespan (1000 charge cycles).

http://support.nest.com/customer/por...eed-batteries-
The Nest Learning Thermostat is equipped with a self-recharging lithium-ion battery. This battery is charged through everyday use of the thermostat and doesn’t need a power adapter or charger. The lifetime of the battery is about 7-10 years and comes with a 5 year warranty.
All thermostats use power continuously. It is supplied from the furnace/AC. It's 24v AC, I believe. Most of the programmable thermostats also come with a backup battery so that the program isn't lost every time the power is interrupted. That's the only reason it needs to have a battery.
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Old May 26, 2012, 02:17 AM   #54
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Nest is amazing, but buyer beware...

The Nest Thermostat is an amazing piece of technology.

I just wish it worked with our *brand new* air conditioning.

While the Nest seems to support two-stage heating, it does not seem to support two or multi-stage *cooling*.

Every local dealer here only sells multi-stage air conditioning units!

Both contractors that quoted the job included the Nest in their bid, with the same two-stage air conditioning !

After 24 hours of the air conditioning not functioning properly (would only run on the first low stage) one of the service guys came back, called Nest, and muttered an apology, that the state-of-the-art Nest wouldn't work with our *brand new air conditioning*...

"Does Nest support multistage systems?
Nest currently supports two stages of conventional heating (W and W2 wires) and one stage of conventional cooling (one Y wire only). Nest also supports one stage heat pumps with auxiliary heat (Y and AUX wires). If your current thermostat has a Y2 or Y3 wire or a W3 wire, Nest is not compatible with your system."


Sigh.

I called Nest to ask how the Hell they don't support multi-stage cooling, as it's not like it's new or anything, and couldn't get a straight answer. I asked when they would update the Nest to support two-stage cooling and could not get any ETA on a fix.

Now, we're stuck with a competitor's thermostat, that's a hard to read at any off-axis, doesn't seem to cycle properly, POS!

Come on Nest! Get with the program! Support multi-stage cooling and "Shut-up and take my money!"

Last edited by jwdsail; May 26, 2012 at 02:24 AM.
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Old May 26, 2012, 07:42 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jwdsail View Post
While the Nest seems to support two-stage heating, it does not seem to support two or multi-stage *cooling*
Until it does, there are options like this INSTEON Thermostat coupled with Indigo . Or hook up a Twine module with a temperature sensor to integrate with a Pebble smartwatch for the ultimate in geek toys.

Last edited by Aeolius; May 26, 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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Old May 26, 2012, 08:40 AM   #56
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What use is this? I have Satchwell thermostats on my walls that switch the full mains current to my heaters.

This Nest thing apparently cannot replace those. It only switches low voltage.
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Old May 26, 2012, 10:27 AM   #57
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I am a HVAC service technician, and personally I believe selling these thermostats or any thermostat to the general public is a bad idea. I couldn't tell you the amount of calls I have ran where someone has purchased a new thermostat, attempted to install it themselves, and fried other components in their system during the process. I've installed a few of these, and they are nice. My advice to anyone who is getting one is to make absolutely sure it is compatible with your current system first. Second, if your not 100% sure how to install one without any problems, call a qualified technician. Those letters that the thermostat wire hooks up to (R,Y,G,O,B,C,W...) don't represent colors. Although the voltage in those wires is only 24v, that is what your entire systems control voltage is, and the cost of repairs to a improperly installed thermostat can be extremely expensive.
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:02 PM   #58
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I got one in Sunday. So far it is pretty cool. What I like most is being able to control my thermostat from my iPhone.
Being able to control the device remotely is a nice advantage and it does look nice, but I would be highly skeptical if this thing will really save tons of money over a traditional programmable 5+2 or 5+1+1 thermostat. Yes you just set it up and down to teach it, but really that isn't a whole lot different then programming a thermostat to do the same. The Robertshaw 5+2 unit I have was about $50 and it is also powered with the common terminal along with having a battery back-up. Sure it doesn't look as cool, but it does about the same thing only difference is that it doesn't program itself.

Depending on your home's construction and the climate you live in you have to be careful with how much you set back your thermostat. It can take more energy trying to warm it or cool it if you are trying to gain or drop too many degrees. Also you have to consider how long you are going to be gone. If your gone a week then drop it or raise it as much as you want, but over a course of a few hours you have to reduce the set back or up.

I saved a ton of money last winter and it wasn't my thermostat that did it. I switched out a vintage late 60's early 70's gas guzzling NG furnace with a new 95% NG unit. A thermostat will do little if you don't have a very efficient system attached to it.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:01 PM   #59
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I have a ground-source heat pump (400% efficient, baby! ) and at first I was excited--the Nest thermostat does work with them. Unfortunately only works with single-stage with auxiliary heat or two-stage without auxiliary heat. It is not compatible with three-stage systems (two-stage blower + auxiliary heat).

If they ever add three-stage compatibility I'm there.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:50 PM   #60
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So it senses if you're in the house. What if your thermostat is in a room that isn't used very much?
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Old May 26, 2012, 02:04 PM   #61
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So it senses if you're in the house. What if your thermostat is in a room that isn't used very much?
I believe you can turn off the auto-away feature.
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Old May 26, 2012, 02:45 PM   #62
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All thermostats use power continuously. It is supplied from the furnace/AC. It's 24v AC, I believe. Most of the programmable thermostats also come with a backup battery so that the program isn't lost every time the power is interrupted. That's the only reason it needs to have a battery.
But this power-from-furnace-or-AC can be problematic if you don't need either (ie, if the weather is just right). Then the Nest either pulses the furnace or AC to get some power, which can be problematic, or to avoid this needs an extra wire to supply it with electricity separately (which can be installed easily but it's yet one more wire you have to install).
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Old May 26, 2012, 03:14 PM   #63
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you have to be careful with how much you set back your thermostat. It can take more energy trying to warm it or cool it if you are trying to gain or drop too many degrees.
That's a common myth. It takes roughly the same amount of energy to continuously keep a building at a specified temperature as it does to warm it back up to the same temperature after it was cooled down. You save energy between the time it takes for a space to stabilize and when heat is needed again. So the longer the setback (and the greater the temperature difference), the greater the energy savings. That's why having decent insulation and energy efficient windows are so important too—the best furnace in the world will keep running if there's leaks all over the house. Furnaces also tend to be more efficient when they're continuously working not being switched on and off.

On average, if you turn the thermostat down by one degree Fahrenheit for eight hours every night, you’ll use about 1% less energy. Most people don't program their stats correctly. I think that's where Nest can really help. You can really geek out with all the statistsics the Nest gives you and the remote access which is cool.

That said, I'm pretty satisfied with my honeywell vision pro 8000 I got for under $100 so I'm skeptical if it's actually worth the $250 premium. On my honeywell it has an auto recovery feature where it basically "learns" how much time it actually takes to warm up and factors that into the setback so you don't have to come home to a cold house. You can also get temperature modules to tell you what the temperature is outside—by having a feed to the outside, it's supposed to aid in the auto recovery algorithms as well. I'm not sure how the Nest fares in this regard.

Last edited by SpinThis!; May 26, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:03 PM   #64
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Apple Retail Stores will sell the Nest thermostat, according to a report from iLounge.
In my experience iLounge is hardly a 100% reliable source. 10% perhaps.

I'll come back when someone has a receipt they bought one from an Apple Store or it is on the online site.

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I don't think they would be selling them if they hadn't been created by Tony Fadell.
true. I mean all those scales, baby monitors etc they sell were all made by ex Apple designers after all.
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Old May 26, 2012, 06:25 PM   #65
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But this power-from-furnace-or-AC can be problematic if you don't need either (ie, if the weather is just right). Then the Nest either pulses the furnace or AC to get some power, which can be problematic, or to avoid this needs an extra wire to supply it with electricity separately (which can be installed easily but it's yet one more wire you have to install).
I don't see why it would need an extra wire. The 24v should be supplied continuously to the thermostat no matter what kind of thermostat you have, unless perhaps if it's mechanical.
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Old May 26, 2012, 06:41 PM   #66
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I was going to buy one of these... until it was only released in the USA, and you couldn't even import it as it uses a USA ZIP code for forecast data .


If this is going to be international though...
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Old May 26, 2012, 08:50 PM   #67
Howardchief
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Idea!

I just watch the imbedded video discussion. When he starts talking about the device figuring out when you're not home.. it sounds overly complicated. Wouldn't it be great if:
1) the device could link to an iphone app? (it does!)
2) the iphone had some sort of geofencing capability built in? (it does!)
3) somehow 1 and 2 were connected?

Do this and I'm in!

Hey Programmers, is this even possible? Is the GeoFencing concept open for third party apps?
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Old May 26, 2012, 11:32 PM   #68
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As someone that is in this field.... I definetly want one lol. Good price too as other high-end thermostats that doesn't even have this remote connectivity cost just as much, if not more than this Nest. I'm going to mention this to my boss and maybe we can start selling them.
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Old May 26, 2012, 11:35 PM   #69
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Old May 26, 2012, 11:37 PM   #70
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Hey Programmers, is this even possible? Is the GeoFencing concept open for third party apps?
(I have no idea.)

...But that's an interesting thought. However, that could really hurt the iPhone's battery life. GPS uses a lot of juice.
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Old May 26, 2012, 11:50 PM   #71
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(I have no idea.)

...But that's an interesting thought. However, that could really hurt the iPhone's battery life. GPS uses a lot of juice.
Geofencing on iOS uses cell tower triangulation to increase battery life. It works very well in the Reminders app without a big battery hit.
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Old May 26, 2012, 11:54 PM   #72
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I don't see why it would need an extra wire. The 24v should be supplied continuously to the thermostat no matter what kind of thermostat you have, unless perhaps if it's mechanical.
you need a power, and a common wire.

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But this power-from-furnace-or-AC can be problematic if you don't need either (ie, if the weather is just right). Then the Nest either pulses the furnace or AC to get some power, which can be problematic, or to avoid this needs an extra wire to supply it with electricity separately (which can be installed easily but it's yet one more wire you have to install).
your going to blow up your system
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:00 AM   #73
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Geofencing on iOS uses cell tower triangulation to increase battery life. It works very well in the Reminders app without a big battery hit.
Then I stand corrected.

But if geofencing uses triangulation (thus, not taking advantage of the newer GPS chips), why doesn't the 3GS have this capability?
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:33 AM   #74
IJ Reilly
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you need a power, and a common wire.
A simple old fashioned mechanical thermostat is nothing but a bimetallic switch, so it would not require power. But I don't know anyone who uses one of them anymore.
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:38 AM   #75
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A simple old fashioned mechanical thermostat is nothing but a bimetallic switch, so it would not require power. But I don't know anyone who uses one of them anymore.
More than you realize. I actually still install the old mercury thermostats from time to time for elderly people simply because that is what they are used to. Hardest thing to do on them is set the heat anticipator, and that's not hard at all. I would say 3 out of every 10 houses I get a call on still have those thermostats.
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