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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM   #51
Azathoth
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Thunderbolt - when is the last time that a technology promised so much and delivered so little?

I bought the MBA2011 hoping that Thunderbolt would not be the fiasco that it's shaping up to be - would be great to have a 50 USD Gigabit adapter or a 50 USD FW800 adapter, but Apple has not been able to deliver anything except a monitor.

I'm not giving up my calibrated *matte* NEC Spectravision for some uberglossy AppleDisplay just to get GbE
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by akm3 View Post
Someone who already owns the $50 cable?
Even if that's the case, a $400 hub is still unreasonable.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM   #53
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Fail price.

No way the technology is that expensive to warrant such a price. Everyone is just trying to capitalize on Thunderbolt's newness, but the market will deem it unprosperous.

I think a fair, introductory price would be $199.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicated View Post
Even if that's the case, a $400 hub is still unreasonable.
I agree, the price is way too high.

$299 was too high.

This product should cost ~$199 max, WITH the 'upgrades'.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:10 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by DoFoT9 View Post
i disagree - because, really, how many people (percentage wise) will require such a device? pro-sumers, more or less. sub 1% market share of total mac users (and maybe a few idiots that dont _really_ need it?)....

i mean honestly, it's already $1,000+ for even a small TB enclosure, then this, then your TB displays, yada - it's another mac (which i'd rather have!)
Sure, I agree that not many users need bandwidth at that capacity and USB 3.0 serves a larger market, but TBolt won't be dead simply because the accessories for it are too expensive at launch.

I see more average users using it more for convenience than for RAID5 enclosures. Macbook Air owner comes home and plugs his laptop into the TBolt ACD and his/her FW800, Time Machine backup, etc. is ready to go. I see it being that "one cable to rule them all" kinda thing for users that may want it.

The Belkin fills that niche without the need for a 27" panel, or for users that need the expansion in a tight space.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynicalone View Post
Perhaps killing it is going to far, but it will never be anything more then FW400/800 at these prices.

If Apple adds USB 3 this year to the Mac lineup then Thunderbolt is all but dead to the average consumer that Apple targets.
Yes, but the price will come down as FW800 prices have. I laughed at the price of FW800 back in 2004, but now the $10 difference between it and USB2/3 is negligible.

Agreed about USB3.0 on the consumer front. Many users wanted Apple to kill the FW400/800 ports on the 13" comps just so they could get a third USB in there. I agreed with them.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:11 AM   #56
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$400??
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:13 AM   #57
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I'll buy it if they ever ship the damn thing...
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #58
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At $400 they have everyone thinking the same thing....a Thunderbolt Display from Apple looks like a better deal. For only $600 more you get a 27" display at super hi res, and all the ports you could need.

USB 3 is a biggie, but undoubtedly the TB Display will be updated soon to include that, and then, game over.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #59
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How do they expect to push TB to consumers with these ridiculous prices?
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoFoT9 View Post
i mean honestly, it's already $1,000+ for even a small TB enclosure, then this, then your TB displays, yada - it's another mac (which i'd rather have!)
Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:16 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by nilk View Post

But otherwise, this is way too expensive, and I would either play the waiting game, look at alternatives, or get an Apple Thunderbolt Display. Though the Apple display would have to have enough value compared to the cost of other 27" 2560x1440 displays combined with the hub to make it worth while.
This.

The hope for a dock/hub like this is that it would make buying a non-Apple display less expensive than the Apple product, but getting nearly the same features.

But Belkin seems to have decided to price off the Apple display, and markup just as much so that Belkin+3d party display=Apple display. Not seeing the value proposition there Belkin.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:16 AM   #62
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Where is Blackmagic Design? In an interview, one of BMD's founders, said they literally got death threats, when first offering great video cards for a reasonable price. Hopefully they will jump in.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:18 AM   #63
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Really?

Unbelievable!

Our U.S. economy MUST be doing well.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
At $400 they have everyone thinking the same thing....a Thunderbolt Display from Apple looks like a better deal. For only $600 more you get a 27" display at super hi res, and all the ports you could need.

USB 3 is a biggie, but undoubtedly the TB Display will be updated soon to include that, and then, game over.
What I never understand about consumers is the tenacity to complain about the price of one product A, then compare buying product A to product B which more expensive, and doesn't fill the same gap for product A.

Might as well just say, "HECK $400! For another $800 I could buy a car!"

The ACD is an entirely different type of product. Yes, it has hub features, but a user needs to want the 27" display feature first and foremost because it's a display. Then you have to want to spend $1000 on your display.

The Belkin and Matrox boxes are not meant to compete with ACDs, nor Mac Minis, nor PCs, nor anything that isn't a hub . . . . hence the reason for the reactions to it's outrageous price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieCutter View Post
Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...
You gotta remember, some users don't travel too far past www.store.apple.com for their product info.

That's not an insult at all folks, some really haven't seen the TBolt drives made by other companies because they really aren't looking for them.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Apple also essentially offers a Thunderbolt docking station built into its $999 27-inch Thunderbolt display. Apple's display offers three USB 2.0 ports, a Gigabit Ethernet port, a FireWire 800 port, a FaceTime HD camera, and a 2.1 speaker system, all connected to the user's computer over a single Thunderbolt cable.
For a little more than double what this thing will cost? I see a surge in Thunderbolt display sales coming...


Quote:
Originally Posted by reden View Post
How do they expect to push TB to consumers with these ridiculous prices?
Not shipping to "average" consumers?
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Skunk View Post
Sure, I agree that not many users need bandwidth at that capacity and USB 3.0 serves a larger market, but TBolt won't be dead simply because the accessories for it are too expensive at launch.

I see more average users using it more for convenience than for RAID5 enclosures. Macbook Air owner comes home and plugs his laptop into the TBolt ACD and his/her FW800, Time Machine backup, etc. is ready to go. I see it being that "one cable to rule them all" kinda thing for users that may want it.
assuming your first point comes true, and TB indeed takes off - yes, ok i agree! but simply based off the longevity it took for prices to drop... it's a long long time away. TB was designed as an "all purpose" mechanism, but the part that annoys me is that not all manufacturers are adopting the same type of connector, i mean until Intel released it (officially) in the last few weeks, HP had their own implementation, pretty sure Toshiba did too. I really hope that the market decides to keep mDP as the connector because there are already so many products that utilise it.

Quote:
The Belkin fills that niche without the need for a 27" panel, or for users that need the expansion in a tight space.
in all honesty i dont see -that- many users who would buy a 27", not unless it was an imac really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieCutter View Post
Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...
sure you did. expensive for 3TB. now you go out and buy the $399.99 device just so you can dock it, oh and a TB compatible monitor - look at the price then! given that the internal hard drives are the bottleneck, i'll stick with eSATA or similar, tyvm
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM   #67
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The eSATA and USB 3 options are tempting. If you need those external ports it's great, I can see a studio or company sharing a dock or two around when needed. But yes, it's still way too pricey for what it is. I'd drop $200 for this in a heartbeat, maybe $250 if I needed to get a Thunderbolt cable as well.

As prices drop I hope the prices of these hubs will drop too. And competition from Matrox and Belkin trying to sell their docks (and LaCie too with there eSATA dock) doesn't hurt either... I'd love to add the eSATA and USB 3 functionality to my 2011 iMac, but I'll wait a bit.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:24 AM   #68
SeattleMoose
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Wow

can you say GOUGING!!!!

TB is having a very difficult birth!!!!
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Wrathwitch View Post
Great another overpriced thunderbolt accessory offering the basic ports that mobile computers should have in the first place.

Colour me impressed.... not.
It is overpriced, but I'm surprised you don't understand the concept of a dock. This would be great for laptop owners who like to use their laptops as desktops at home. Only one cable to connect your monitor, ethernet and all your USB 2/3 and firewire devices to your computer.

It's just a shame that this universal dock costs as much or more than the proprietary docks of the past.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM   #70
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MBP with ExpressCard FTW.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM   #71
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while I will happily agree that this dock has everything I could want for my Air, the price point is staggering.

At $299 I'd be grin gin since I'd have to pay another $45 for the cable but with it being $399 I may have to pass up on what IMO is the perfect dock for the air because its way over priced itself.

Then again, it has eSATA, and USB3 which the ThunderBolt display does not have, and I can still use my current display.

So for those that already have a great display this will still be a great cheaper options, and if you need USB3 or eSATA then its actually a better option.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:26 AM   #72
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It's now $399? Hell, Thunderbolt vapourware is getting pricier by the day.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoFoT9 View Post
assuming your first point comes true, and TB indeed takes off - yes, ok i agree! but simply based off the longevity it took for prices to drop... it's a long long time away. TB was designed as an "all purpose" mechanism, but the part that annoys me is that not all manufacturers are adopting the same type of connector, i mean until Intel released it (officially) in the last few weeks, HP had their own implementation, pretty sure Toshiba did too. I really hope that the market decides to keep mDP as the connector because there are already so many products that utilise it.
All good points, all good points indeed. I am interested in seeing what the tech industry can do with TBolt after another year or two in the wild. The media creation market has gone bats*** crazy with it at I/O devices for video and audio and turning the iMac into the new entry level workstation.

The consumer market will benefit soon. I too do hope mDP stays around for a LONG while.

Quote:
in all honesty i dont see -that- many users who would buy a 27", not unless it was an imac really.
Agreed! Most of the 27" HiDef panels on the market are upwards of $600 - $1000. And I'd bet cash money that consumers aren't looking to spend $1000 on a hub that has a display attached to it as a mere convenience.[/QUOTE]
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:29 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Mad Mac Maniac View Post
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...

Don't just say "obviously this product isn't for you". I would actually like to learn the purpose.
Since you asked to actually have it explained, I'll give you one example.

For those of us who deal with hundreds (if not thousands) of GBs of data a day across multiple devices, in editing film for one example, we really need multiple monitors, tons of fast drives connected, and often multiple computers (to either split tasks or connect to render faster). So to simply answer your question, we'd need a drive (or RAID array) to download original footage onto, then a copy of it for backup on another drive, then a larger screen to actually do the editing on (especially if a laptop is the comp we're using for all of this), another monitor connected with correct color to visualize the final product as it will be seen by a consumer, speakers to listen to audio, peripherals to control the editing process (scrub through video, draw masks for effects, etc.) and then countless other drives for previous projects or backups of more versions or for transferring current projects on to and then sending to someone else to continue working on or add work to what you've done so far. Before TB, many drives were made with USB 3 (which is much faster than 2 and FW800) which wouldn't work on a mac without some kind of peripheral like this (or an expresscard adapter, for example), so those of us that have them benefit a lot by connecting them all to one dock and then having a single connection to the computer, for everything. Also, for people with slower wireless (or MBAs with no wired connection built in) having ethernet also routed through TB is really helpful to get a solid, continuous wired connection to the internet/network(s). I hope that somewhat answers your question.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:30 AM   #75
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Yeah right Bellini save your money don't even release this product if it will be at that price.
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