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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:31 AM   #126
theluggage
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Originally Posted by avanpelt View Post
Why is anything related to Thunderbolt so insanely expensive?
Because the market is currently very small - limited to people who bought a new Mac in the last year or so, and who actually need something faster than Firewire 800. Economies of scale are a huge factor in electronics pricing.

The first people being served by the market are video and graphics pros who were left up the creek by the removal of the ExpressCard slot from all but the 17" MacBook Pro. That's an even smaller market, and sellers can charge what they like.

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But I can't remember the last time I paid more than $50 for a USB 2.0 or ethernet hub.
This isn't a USB 2 hub or an Ethernet hub, or an internal-SATA-to-eSATA cable. It contains Ethernet, USB 3, Firewire and eSATA controllers that that offer the same sort of performance that you'd get if they were built onto the motherboard.

If you just want to connect a mouse, keyboard and card reader then a $20 USB hub is all you need. If you want to add eSATA or an extra Gigabit Ethernet port, only Thunderbolt or USB3 will cut the mustard... and how do you add USB3 to your 2011 Mac?

This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer eSATA or USB3.

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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:31 AM   #127
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Hmm...

"Belkin Upgrades Thunderbolt Express Dock with USB 3.0 and eSATA, Bumps Price to $399.99"

"Consumers tell Belkin to stick it where the sun dont' shine!"

Complete rip off. There's simply no justification for such a high price, its not like they have excessive licensing to pay here.

If this carries on Thunderbolt will be just like Firewire - unused due to very low adoption outside the Mac. Apple and Intel need to be really pushing to get Thunderbolt on every single computer, not just Macs, that'll kill the platform before it gets started.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:33 AM   #128
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Complete rip off. There's simply no justification for such a high price, its not like they have excessive licensing to pay here.
How do you know that Thunderbolt licensing isn't high?
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:37 AM   #129
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can I plug my mini display port (not thunderbolt) Cinema Display into this?
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM   #130
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But I can't remember the last time I paid more than $50 for a USB 2.0 or ethernet hub.
$50? That was a long time ago (relatively). I can't remember paying more than $10, but that was last year.

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Originally Posted by avanpelt View Post
Ten bucks says this hub will be Alex Lindsay's pick of the week on MacBreak Weekly within the next six months -- and he'll probably buy 5 of them. That same ten bucks says that the majority of listeners to the podcast will shake their heads in disbelief.
I think you'd lose your $10. Alex is a true pro user. $400 is nothing to a business like his. He'll make 100x that on added productivity. For a prosumer or lower, yes, $400 is insane unless you have a lot of spare change lying around. But most people understand this about his picks which is why the "Alex" as a monetary system was invented.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM   #131
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I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.
Seagate has one. Nice, too.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM   #132
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When I saw this I taught it was the new mac mini.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:39 AM   #133
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LOL!!!

I gave *harsh* criticisms over how miserably executed Thunderbolt has been, the prices far too high and far too few products available that use it and macrumors members tried to chastize ME over my complaints about thunderbolt.

Well, here you go, another thunderbolt peripheral to add to your collection of about 20 a year and a half later at a higher price tag than its predecessor.

Complete FAILURE thunderbolt has been.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:39 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by theluggage View Post
This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer eSATA or USB3.
The costs of the components, manufacturing and licensing still don't justify the high costs that we are seeing on Thunderbolt

Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:40 AM   #135
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The costs of the components, manufacturing and licensing still don't justify the high costs that we are seeing on Thunderbolt

Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.
So true!
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:41 AM   #136
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Someone finally nails it and offers the right product. Too bad the price is absurd. Even $199 seems high for a high-end peripheral, but $399?! If these prices don't start falling and quickly, I'm concerned about thunderbolt's future. Someone else will figure out how to do something similar at a reasonable price.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:42 AM   #137
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Problem is folks like me that have a lot of stuff going on with there MBP and maybe new models coming out without needed ports like Firewire 800 and ethernet connections on these units. I need to be portable and a Mac Pro simply won't work for me but I have for instance a Promise pegasus T bolt connection, Drobo Firewire 800 connection, Medium format camera USB 3 and Firewire 800 . Than a Nikon USB 3 connection. One laser printer USB 2 and a Epson large format printer USB 2 than keyboard and other stuff that need connections and if Apple decides to start taking ports away this coming MBP announcements than I am hosed if i upgrade without such a device like this. Which will save my Drobo with Firewire 800. Now will this want to make me upgrade to a new laptop not really if i have to shell out 400 bucks extra to do it. So yes I see the need for a device like this but I agree this does not help Apple in the long run. Oh and I got a 30 inch NEC monitor running into T bolt. Bottom line I can't upgrade to a new MBP if they cut off the ports . Now i admit I am a minority here but I am a Professional Photographer that has these needs and this helps me but you can't simply cut off this segment of the market either. End of day this is also a Apple issue that needs to support there Professional users and I don't see that in the next MBP from what the rumors are.

I tend to agree on the USB3 just simply taking over here if T bolt is just to expensive to run.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:43 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Mad Mac Maniac View Post
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...
Already been answered, but I myself have 40TB+ of storage in my home office at any given time, not to mention the 100TB+ at the main office I work at sometimes. I constantly need to back up and/or transfer 100s of GBs of footage, sometimes daily depending on the client. Ever since I got my Thunderbolt peripherals, it's been much faster than using FW800 and easier than using eSATA. A dock would allow me to avoid having eSATA, FW800, USB, DisplayPort, and Gigabit Ethernet hanging off the side of my MBP, and give me ONE cable to worry about...plus MagSafe obviously.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:44 AM   #139
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I can go to Frys and buy a eSATA and USB 3.0 external case for $29.
...and then you can buy a Belkin Thunderbolt Dock so that you can actually plug those into your 2011 MacBook Pro.

Quote:
I can buy and internal PCI controller with eSATA and USB 3.0 ports for $29.
... and you'll need this to plug it into your 2011 iMac.

The things you mention are cheap because they are commodity, generic PC items, mass manufactured in the far East and re-badged by resellers. The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by angemon89 View Post
The 27" thunderbolt display is looking more and more attractive. As long as they add USB 3.0 to the display, it's early happy birthday to me.
If Apple adds USB 3, they would likely bump the price.

Apple did not go with Thunderbolt to control the market either. They lead the market into areas that could prove beneficial in the long run and leverage that technology and encourage others to develop devices using that technology. For Apple to come out with a device like this from Belkin, and they would have snuffed out the tertiary market for add-ons and could cost them support for their own products.

Apple doesn't want to crap all over the market. They are a participant in that market...
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by theluggage View Post
The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.

How long will TB be considered "new"?
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM   #142
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Luckily I currently have a MacPro tower and a PCI controller with eSATA and USB 3.0.

When the new MacBook Pro comes out with USB 3.0, I will never have to deal with Thunderbolt.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:50 AM   #143
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I think you'd lose your $10. Alex is a true pro user. $400 is nothing to a business like his. He'll make 100x that on added productivity. For a prosumer or lower, yes, $400 is insane unless you have a lot of spare change lying around. But most people understand this about his picks which is why the "Alex" as a monetary system was invented.
Exactly, I'm not at the scale of Alex, but as a freelancer, the time I save using Thunderbolt allows me to bill to other projects, so I make more money.

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Complete FAILURE thunderbolt has been.
Really? Seems to be working just fine for me...
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:52 AM   #144
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What an utter fail. Thunderbolt introduced in 2011. It's 2012 and yet the appeal still isn't here because of pricing like this.

Let's see, $999 for a MBA. Add $399 + $50 for this expansion unit and TB cable. that's nearly half the cost of my mba. Ridiculous when these features should be part of the computer anyway!
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:52 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by theluggage View Post
because the market is currently very small - limited to people who bought a new mac in the last year or so, and who actually need something faster than firewire 800. Economies of scale are a huge factor in electronics pricing.

The first people being served by the market are video and graphics pros who were left up the creek by the removal of the expresscard slot from all but the 17" macbook pro. That's an even smaller market, and sellers can charge what they like.

This isn't a usb 2 hub or an ethernet hub, or an internal-sata-to-esata cable. It contains ethernet, usb 3, firewire and esata controllers that that offer the same sort of performance that you'd get if they were built onto the motherboard.

If you just want to connect a mouse, keyboard and card reader then a $20 usb hub is all you need. If you want to add esata or an extra gigabit ethernet port, only thunderbolt or usb3 will cut the mustard... And how do you add usb3 to your 2011 mac?

This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer esata or usb3.
This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.

For 400 (FYI, it's FOUR HUNDRED) bucks it's too damn expensive for what it offers. Also remember that Macs are not the only computers to have Thunderbolt port - if Apple customers are okay with such pricing, I doubt many of other brands' customers will do likewise. I am not a Pro, but such 'dock' as they call it, would come in handy.
For $100 it might be a no brainer for most people (including me), but $400 price tag will be a deal-breaker even for its target category - the Prosumers. I doubt this will sell well.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:55 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by theluggage View Post

The things you mention are cheap because they are commodity, generic PC items, mass manufactured in the far East and re-badged by resellers. The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.
People are not getting it. Our computers take the PCI cards and the motherboard and other ancillary devices route this data. It seems rather silly to talk about what can be purchased for cheap as comparison and ignore that a whole computer is needed to make things work.

The Belkin is expensive but their goal is likely to sell to Prosumers. What does the average consumer need with all these ports.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colpeas View Post
This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.

For 400 (FYI, it's FOUR HUNDRED) bucks it's too damn expensive for what it offers. Also remember that Macs are not the only computers to have Thunderbolt port - if Apple customers are okay with such pricing, I doubt many of other brands' customers will do likewise. I am not a Pro, but such 'dock' as they call it, would come in handy.
For $100 it might be a no brainer for most people (including me), but $400 price tag will be a deal-breaker even for its target category - the Prosumers. I doubt this will sell well.
If it's so easy. If it's "just a hub" then why aren't see seeing more options beyond the Matrox option that is far more expensive than your $100 pricing.

You guys need to be realistic.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:56 AM   #147
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Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.
...and Apple Stores probably shift a hundred AppleTVs for every Thunderbolt cable they sell.

One of these is a bog-standard ARM system-on-a-chip and some commodity Flash RAM, not a lot different from other media players on the market.

The other has a custom chip, only used in Thunderbolt cables, inside each connector that somehow crams two bidirectional 10Gb/s channels down a bit of twisted wire.

The real con is that some people will buy their AppleTV and then spend $50 on a HDMI cable, when a totally equivalent cable (consisting of a bit of wire with passive connectors on each end) costs $5 from Amazon.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 11:57 AM   #148
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I'm confused as to why there is a TB port on the front. It would be much more logical to have USB on the front, and the TB in and TB out on the back.

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Old Jun 5, 2012, 12:00 PM   #149
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If Apple adds USB 3, they would likely bump the price.

Apple did not go with Thunderbolt to control the market either. They lead the market into areas that could prove beneficial in the long run and leverage that technology and encourage others to develop devices using that technology. For Apple to come out with a device like this from Belkin, and they would have snuffed out the tertiary market for add-ons and could cost them support for their own products.

Apple doesn't want to crap all over the market. They are a participant in that market...
The long run does not translate to a unit life span. This is clearly a long transition, so until a standard is dominant, accommodate what the current market majory uses. It is too early to force in this case TB and eliminate FW, Ethernet, etc. In my case it would take a replacement of several g-raids at about $1800 per pop, and that's just the beginning. Someone at apple is obviously both drunk and stupid.
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Old Jun 5, 2012, 12:01 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by antman2x2 View Post
I, as a consumer cannot express how disgusted I am with thunderbolt.

Actually let me correct myself, Im not disgusted with thunderbolt, I'm disgusted by these companies who want to rape and pillage my wallet.

THESE PRICES WILL KILL THUNDERBOLT.
But Thunderbolt isn't aimed specifically at the 'consumer market'.

People that need the performance, as has been pointed out here numerous times, will get this device, and more, because they live on the line and NEED the speed, the power, the flexibility. I mean, come on, there were Cray liquid cooled supercomputers and some of this angst about Thunderbolt would be like throwing a fit about them being on the market. It's not for everybody. When USB came out, the peripherals and cables were expensive. When FireWire came out, same thing. Thunderbolt is no different, and will hopefully last longer in the market than FireWire has.

Just wait until the fiber based Thunderbolt comes out... I can hear the screams now... Look at how Fibre Channel was supposed to 'reinvent the storage industry', and 'revolutionize clustering technology'. Who has Fibre Channel? Imagine a portable hard drive using Fibre Channel... 20 gig speed! A waste for all residential personal computer users...
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