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Old Jun 13, 2012, 08:44 AM   #126
toke lahti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
Another thing that was discontinued was the Anti-Glare option, folks! That said, Phil Schiller made it a point to claim that the new IPS Retina display has 75% less glare, so maybe we have some kind of best of both worlds situation...
I hate these pseudo-matte talks.
We need nicely measureable number with these how matte is your matte!
Does 75% less mean 10x more than real matte?
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Originally Posted by HasanDaddy View Post
Folks - go to the REFURBISHED store on Apple.com - many 17" still available, at discount, with matte screens!
I just ordered mine earlier today
17LIVES!!!!
Yep, none available in my country's apple store.
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Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
It's blatantly obvious that Apple pushes the new MacBook Pro 15" Retina to replace the MacBook Pro 17" and it somewhat makes sense as 17" notebooks doesn't make much sense for 95% of the user-base out there these days.
Overall "desktop replacement computers" are gaining market share and are now over 10% of all "mobile computers".
Although Apple's DTR's are also iMac and mini, I'd guess that 17" or even bigger laptop from Apple would sell, if it would have compelling features and price.

As much as I hope Apple would get its act together with MP, finally release xMac, release retina17", set all their legacy software for free (shake, fcs), licence osX, more than anything I hope they make "full ports and ODD" retina17"!
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 09:19 AM   #127
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Tim Cook has made it very clear Apple is not abandoning high end users. They are working hard on new Mac Pros that should launch next year. If they didn't care about high end users, the desktop behemoth would have been killed.
If they would care, MP would have been upgraded over a year ago, when TB was introduced eg. More than 2.5 years before it will be. There would have been esata & usb3 for years.
And Apple would never sell 3 years old GPU in their "flagship" as latest & greatest. They don't even care to renew MP's page: "Two Mini DisplayPort outputs connect to a pair of Apple LED Cinema Displays with ease. And a dual-link DVI port connects a 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display or other DVI display."

Believe me, they just don't care.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 10:10 AM   #128
Benbikeman
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Are you denying that the existence of 15" and 17" products confused a lot of consumers?
I fail to see how a choice of 15-inch or 17-inch hi-res laptops could confuse anyone over the age of six.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 11:18 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Are you denying that the existence of 15" and 17" products confused a lot of consumers? And now they've added this incredible new 15" Retina MacBook Pro, keeping the 17" around would make things even more complicated for a lot of people. I genuinely believe Apple has made the right decision here.

Tim Cook has made it very clear Apple is not abandoning high end users. They are working hard on new Mac Pros that should launch next year. If they didn't care about high end users, the desktop behemoth would have been killed off.

I hope you stick around and enjoy future innovations from Apple.
I will try to believe that you actually are serious, and I very much deny that there has been a problem with confused customers.

In what other subjects would you reason in such a backwards manner? When people don't know which car to buy - let's just have one model to choose from. When people don't know what to have for dinner - let's discontinue all choices, to avoid confusion.

I definitely know that even 17" is small, for fitting all the windows and panes I need when I work, without straining the eyes. 15" is out of the question.

I will not throw my MacPros out of the window, but I will not buy anything more until I know that Apple is on my side. I sorely miss a decent bluray support also, not least in DVD Studio Pro, which still only supports the dead format HDDVD.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 11:52 AM   #130
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The 99%

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Originally Posted by BornAgainMac View Post
Apple today said they hate 1% of you folks.
That might be a little excessive. Apple merely has said "You 1% are too expensive to keep around. Sorry."
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 12:19 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Well there must have been a lot of confused 6 year olds posting on here then asking whether to buy the 15" or 17". These posts were appearing on almost a daily basis in the MacBook Pro forum.
They sought advice, reached a conclusion and made their purchase. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is it you find confusing about having the option of both a 15" and 17" laptop?
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 12:22 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Well there must have been a lot of confused 6 year olds posting on here then asking whether to buy the 15" or 17". These posts were appearing on almost a daily basis in the MacBook Pro forum.
I don't think there was any 'confusion' about the product. It was about whether someone should by a 15" or 17" if they want to do X, Y, or Z. If a 17" just got wiped out of the picture then there are some people, myself included, whose requirements for a laptop are no longer met by an Apple product.

I need the extra 22% of screen.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 12:26 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonGlitch View Post
During the WWDC this picture was up on the screen of the 15" MBP Retina display. They Cook specifically said the video on the upper right was a full 1080p video. Thus using that, and the known resolution of the Retina we can see the proportions of the new display, 1080p, and the old 17" MBP.

You should have a TON more room with the new 15" MBP.
Thumb resize.
So much for going to school all those years Get a ruler, tape measure or your physical measuring device, now measure the physical screen…

What is so hard to understand 17" is more than 15" on a laptop? All that is wanted to insist back is with the Retina size. My 17" MBP has more than the 15 did and it was still physically larger. How about other 15" laptops that had better screens than the old 15"? Were they bigger (sorry larger proportions) than the Apple MBP?

I get tired of reading it's larger, more screen space but at the same size it is not. Everyone who has the 17" knows the screen is bigger and then if things were the same by putting in a Retina Display into a 17" would you claim it's the same size or bigger

Moving on…

I like many others have enjoyed my 17" for 3 years now and have hundreds of hours of video, art work and so on created on mine and not once did I whine about the weight. Those crying about the weight I wonder if you had the same beef lugging books around college. I'd bet those books were way heavier than a computer and if a pound or two is too much, geez, not saying much there…

I think what would have been a good "work horse" would have been a 17" with two hard drives, built in esata and remove the card slot, no disc drive and a good amount of what the "work horse" folks end up buying or doing to other 17" models on windows or cannibalize a 17" MBP with third party extra add-on's. I love having my SSD & another HDD in my 27" iMac. If the option was two SSD's it would have had that as would my 17" MBP.

I am by no means a "Pro" but I do have needs with my stuff to make the creative process work for me and not wait or go against me, tool or not it needs to work as smooth as it can, simple.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 12:29 PM   #134
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Apple "quietly" discontinues MacBook Pro 17"

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Originally Posted by BluePhoenixRa View Post
What's weird is that they didn't say a word about removing the 17" from their line up.

I guess they were too embarrassed to say an Apple product didn't sell as much as they hoped and so they are discontinuing it. But, atleast they should've said something.
I agree, BluePhoenixRA. "Quietly" connotes "sneaky." Does Apple want to be known as a "sneaky" company? Really?
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 12:48 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
The MacBook Pro 15" Retina does not offer the same by any stretch of the imagination as it doesn't come remotely close in terms of I/O capabilities with the lack of Firewire 800, the lack of ExpressCard, the lack of gigabit ethernet and so on.
Purely as an FYI in case you didn't catch the Keynote, but Apple announced Thunderbolt-based dongles for FW800 and Gigabit Ethernet, so those two are covered (if not as conveniently as being on the board). And the MBPR does have two TB ports, so you could connect both if you needed in the field (an Apple Thunderbolt Display would be more practical - if more expensive - in the office/home).

Too bad FW1600 and FW3200 never really went anywhere as that ThunderBolt FireWire dongle should be able to handle both on a technical level.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 01:20 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
It just avoids confusion for customers. If you spent any time in the MacBook Pro forum on here, you'd see almost daily the same question should I buy the 15" or 17" MBP? Apple has made that decision for everyone now. I think it's a good thing.
But I is still too confuzed by Apples laptops. There is 11, 13 and 15 that is 3 but me only learn the numberz 1 and 2! Pleaz help me out of my confuzion.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 01:30 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by BornAgainMac View Post
Apple today said they hate 1% of you folks.
Not good to be part of the 1% these days.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 04:52 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
I just hope you give the new 15" Retina MacBook Pro a chance. Based on the early reviews I've read from trusted journalists, I think you'll grow to love what Apple still has to offer you.
I dont trust many journalists. Especially the well paid ones..
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 06:32 PM   #139
carl0sian
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Mbp 17"

Glad I bought the last late 2011 17" model. I would love to have a retina display but I'm happy with the larger screen and upgrade-ability this model offered. I have the 2.4ghz with 256gb SSD and 16gb of Ram. So far, its been a great laptop for me.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 05:14 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Lone Deranger View Post
I'm quite confident it will.
It will be a case of 'the King is dead. Long live the King.'
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 06:48 AM   #141
NeferNefer
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Sad

Now I've spoken with the Apple suppliers in my country, and not only did the 17" that they had in stock sell out in an instant when Apple announced the sad news. Apple has also cancelled their order that they sent well before the announcement -- an order which Apple had delayed.

Why does Apple hate us?

(I live in a country with strange letters/characters, and need to have a local keyboard.)
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 07:08 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by NeferNefer View Post
Why does Apple hate us?
I don't think it is anything personal, I just don't think the sales lived up to Apple's expectations.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 07:13 AM   #143
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It is (was) always a niche market though..I remember when I bought mine my sales guy was pleasantly surprised..."Haven't sold one of these for a while" That was 8 months ago.

The refurbs are really selling well, at least here in the UK store. A couple of weeks or so and I doubt there will be many left.

And I'm typing this on mine...
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 07:38 AM   #144
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I have had 2 17"MBPs. For me they have been very much desk top replacements, though the current one I have I got because of the ExpressCard slot, it was the only model in the lineup with this option. I don't need this connection anymore so probably would have bought a 15" as my next machine anyway. The 17" has, for the time being, gone. That's just the way it is. It's possible it could return, I remember with the introduction of the uMBP, the 17" came along several months after the initial introduction. Though in the current situation I feel maybe the 17" has now gone forever.

What I am curious about is how the technology in the current retina 15" will trickle down to the rest of the line. What, if any, changes will be made to the next refresh. Will there be any connectivity backtracking, reintroduction of firewire, ethernet. Will user upgrades return? The RMBP does look like a fine machine, I've never used a retina display so don't really know how it effects real world usage. I am a little apprehensive about having to commit to RAM and SSD capacity at time of purchase, with the extra financial outlay required, rather than adding the upgrade costs after several years, or when you find they are needed. I am also apprehensive about a RMBP purchase now because of the lack of thunderbolt peripherals, and the high costs of those that are available. I am curious to see the situation in another 12 months or so when I am more likely to purchase.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 08:08 AM   #145
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The 17" was the only model which had the matte screen option. I heard that Apple does not offer such option for the now-high-end 15" retina display MBP.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:20 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by hajime View Post
The 17" was the only model which had the matte screen option. I heard that Apple does not offer such option for the now-high-end 15" retina display MBP.
Not correct as Apple still offers it on the 15" but true, not the Retina display since they claim it is 75% less reflective.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 11:59 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Are you denying that the existence of 15" and 17" products confused a lot of consumers? And now they've added this incredible new 15" Retina MacBook Pro, keeping the 17" around would make things even more complicated for a lot of people. I genuinely believe Apple has made the right decision here.
Did you honestly just say that people get confused by different physical sizes?! That they can't tell that 17" is bigger than 15"? Talk about dummying down.

For several years I had the 17". I wasn't confused thinking I was carrying a heavy 15". I liked the larger desktop (not a matter of resolution), the faster CPU, and the extra ports. Back then I was doing a lot of content creation on the road so it made sense for me. These days, more writing, so the 13" MacAir makes more sense now.

The point is (and not just to your post) but there are a lot of people here trying to tell other people what computer they need. Its great if they don't need more, but its silly to tell someone else they don't.

the 17" may have been a small market but it was an important one. Apple disagrees. They win.

But to say it makes sense to reduce the product line because different sizes confused people?

That's a sad comment on customers.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 12:40 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by mscriv View Post
* bold emphasis mine

I'll have to see this in person to judge, but even if the 15" can do 1920x1200 (native 17" resolution) I still think elements could seem too small or difficult to read. Like I said, I'll need to play around with one to get a good feel for it.
1920x1200 on 15.4" is 147 PPI, hardly too small. Just perfect about describes it.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrik5 View Post
If it's all about resolution, iPhone 4 should have four times as many icons on its app pages. I expect the retina display to be fantastic but for me as a developer, I expect to see less code onscreen the I do on my 17" MBP.
As a developer, you should understand that if you run the Retina display in 1920x1200 mode (3840x2400 downscaled to 2880x1800), you'll see the same code as you would on a 17" MBP.

1920x1200 is 1920x1200. The letters will just be a bit smaller.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 12:56 PM   #149
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1920x1200 is 1920x1200. The letters will just be a bit smaller.
Um, have you ever used a 17-inch MBP? Standard text is just on the right side of readable at a comfortable typing distance; 22% smaller and you'd be squinting at the screen or leaning forward the whole time. Make things big enough to be readable on a 15-inch screen and you defeat the whole point of the resolution.

As others have said, if you don't need a 17-inch screen, that's great, but many of us do.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:19 PM   #150
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I think the size an individual desires depends on what they are going to be using it for. If the laptop stays in the office, the 17 inch might be a better choice for them.

If they are going to be traveling, then a 15 inch might be better. I personally have a 15 inch and sometimes which I had a bigger size laptop.
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