So you say Android it fragmented?

[Timzer]

So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

[iPhoneApple]

At least you get several updates on iOS as soon as it's released. Android = maybe an upgrade 8 months after release.

[PlaceofDis]

what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.

[rjohnstone]

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.

Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

[VSMacOne]

Before you complain about this go ahead and look at last year's android phones who came out with an old version of android after 4.0 was released. Those suckers will never get updated and you complain about iOS fragmented? Come on...

[VSMacOne]

Originally Posted by rjohnstone

Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.

[Patriot24]

Yes.




- http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/30...lion-imessages

[aitte]

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.

Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature after public outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.

Originally Posted by VSMacOne

Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.

"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:

1. Some features may not be available in all countries or all areas. Flyover and turn-by-turn navigation will be available only on iPhone 4S and iPad 2 or later. Cellular data charges may apply.
2. Siri will be available only on iPhone 4S and iPad (3rd generation) and requires Internet access. Siri may not be available in all languages or all areas, and features may vary by area. Cellular data charges may apply.
3. Shared Photo Streams requires iOS 6 on iPhone 4 or later or iPad 2 or later, or a Mac computer with OS X Mountain Lion. An up-to-date browser is required for accessing shared photo streams on the web.
4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
5. VIP list and VIP and Flagged smart mailboxes will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.
6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.

These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the features even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.

[rjohnstone]

Originally Posted by VSMacOne

Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.

Like I said... only the good features go to the current generation devices.
No 3D maps on the iPad2, 3GS and iPhone 4 either.
Still haven't finished digging through the updates to see what each device actually gets.
Judging by the file size difference between the 3GS and 4, (762MB 3GS, 876MB iPhone 4) there's a lot missing for the 3GS.
What is interesting is the file for the iPhone 4 and the 4S are the same size, yet the 4S does get more functionality out of the update.
iPad 2 (WiFi Only) is 770MB where as the new iPad (WiFi only) is 1.0GB.
I suspect there's a good portion of that difference tied up in graphics given the screen resolution differences.

[Reddmanz]

Um Aitte, if you really do hate Apple so much ( and it really seems you do) why are you here moaning about it? Just sell your Apple stuff and go buy whatever you feel you need...

[sixteen12]

Originally Posted by rjohnstone

Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

Yes like Android phones.

Want S-Voice...need a GS3. GS2 didn't get it in an update.
It also allows apple to keep older phones up to date by not ramming features down the throat of the phone if the phone can't properly use. In the end you get a phone that updates features and has a user base that has 80% of its users on its most recent release vs 7% on the latest major iteration (4.0.x).

[BiscottiGelato]

Originally Posted by aitte

Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature based on outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.




"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:

Still better than Android. It took over 6 monthes, and only in limited markets, to have ICS on the previously best selling Android flagship - Galaxy S2. Don't even talk about the other junk... in a relative sense, it's next to no support and 0 upgrade options.

And you are complaining the iOS6 is artificially locked out of the original iPhone and original iPad? I think nobody cares about your trolling comments.

Not to mention, it's not the continual upgrade that makes iOS. It's the continual support and fixes. Even if you can't get to the latest OS and all the features, at least your phone will receive support for a couple years. Can't say a lot for Android phones.

Upgrade and support is no brainer wins for iOS. What iOS lose big time IMO is screen size. And also the dilema of alienating users confortable with the existing UI, and making sure that the UI is fresh for users that want some changes.

Android have nothing to lose. They can reinvent the whole thing if they want to. They can experiemnt, do it wrong, do it over again. They just don't have as big an existing user base that they need to keep happy.

[chrf097]

Originally Posted by Timzer

So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

Fragmentation isn't just about getting updates.

Android is also very fragmented because you have a bajillion devices, each completely different. From 2.5 inch screens to 5.3 inch screens, from 300MHz processors to 1.5GHz processors. From 230x320 resolution to 1080x720 resolution, and they're all on the market at the same time. not to mention all the bajillion of tablets that all have drastic differences from each other, not to mention all the drastic UI differences between devices.

That's personally why I love Windows Phone and Microsoft's approach. You have all these different devices, but unlike Android, they all have the same layout. Same buttons, same resolution, same OS (no crappy ugly skins) all around. The difference is just the components. You get your choice but the same seamless experience on every device.

Originally Posted by aitte

blah blah blah whiny anti-apple post just go read the actual post to see it

Companies do this ALL the time. Android 4.0 could and has been proven to EASILY run on the Samsung Galaxy S, Droid 2 & 3, Xperia Play, and LOADS of devices by manufacturers. S Voice could easily run on all the other Galaxy smartphones. MOTOACTV could easily work on any motorola phone. Companies constantly force upgrades by locking features to newer hardware. LG, Microsoft, Samsung, Sony, Motorola, Apple, THEY ALL DO IT.

The only reason Apple is targeted for this practice is because it's only got one product line. (and people love to attack Apple for things that every single company does)

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by aitte

These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the feature even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.

And how is that any different from Samsung, HTC, or Moto saying "we're not going to spend the time to make any part of the next Android update available for your phone that's less than two-years old."?

It's not.

Every manufacturer does crap like that to push people to buy the newer model. It's how the manufacturing business works.

But seriously, if you're going to compare Apple's holding of certain new features from older models to the industry standard of every other phone manufacturer (which is to not make ANY part of of newer updates available to most older products, even though they're fully capable of running it), you're barking up the wrong tree man.

I've been making custom ROMs for smartphones (err, "PocketPC Phones" back then) since 2002 to get around this "no update" crap Samsung, HTC and Moto have been doing (or better yet, when the phone manufacture does the update, but the freaking carrier won't allow it out because THEY want you to upgrade to a new handset and tie yourself into another two year contract).

Is Apple's OS update policy perfect? No. Is there another phone manufacturer that comes even close to handing updates even close to (or better) than how Apple does? I don't think so.

[aitte]

Originally Posted by Reddmanz

Um Aitte, if you really do hate Apple so much ( and it really seems you do) why are you here moaning about it? Just sell your Apple stuff and go buy whatever you feel you need...

I just said I wished I could. I've silently tolerated devices being killed off in the past, like the iPhone 3G because it really was a much slower device and at least kind of understandable. But when they artificially kill off the mere 2 year old, very powerful iPad 1, I just saw them for who they really are.

I paid $980 for my iPad 1 as I was one of the very very early adopters. I've also spent about $1000 in iOS software.

There are now 3 options:
1. Try to sell the iPad 1 for $1 to someone dumb enough to want a device that Apple doesn't allow to be upgraded, then spend that $1 towards the iPad 4. This is what Apple wants.
2. Cut all my losses (the $980 for the iPad and the $1000 in iOS software) and leave for Android, where this kind of pure rat-behavior will never happen (since you can always manually upgrade devices and will NEVER be left in the dust - note that I am NOT talking about official upgrades here, I mean installing the latest vanilla Android). Excellent choice, except that it means a huge loss in software costs and time, sigh.
3. Keep using the iPad 1 with iOS 5 until more and more software requires iOS 6, thereby feeding into the urge to get a newer device that can run the newer OS - exactly the reason why Apple artificially limits the OS in this way in the first place.


Another option is to always sell your iOS devices about 3 months before the new one is released, to unsuspecting buyers, while the value is still high, and then always stay on the bleeding edge of latest hardware releases, to never be shafted on updates by Apple. But that's a huge cost to pay, with the constant hardware upgrades.

In short: Apple sure makes it hard to like them.

[Intell]

Originally Posted by aitte

Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

The GPU in the 3Gs is the same in the iPad, but the 3Gs is much more powerful when it comes to graphical abilities. Even the RAM in the 3Gs gives it some edge over the iPad. On a default fresh restore of both devices running the same iOS version, the 3Gs has more unused RAM then the iPad. The only thing the iPad 1G beats the 3Gs at is CPU performance, but even then it's very close to the speed of the 3Gs running iOS 5.

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

Did you know my Ford Model T can pull a 4 ton trailer on level ground with no help from a stand still start?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Does it now? How are you going to get the needed drivers for the older hardware? How are you even going to get it onto there? It take a lot more than "a small hack of the firmware" to install a new iOS version onto an unsupported older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature based on outrage?

I have asked myself that and when using the multitasking gestures on the iPad 1G there are sometimes graphical glitches and non-fluidic animations. This is not only on my iPad 1G, but others who have them turned on.

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Last I checked, this feature is going to be on the 3Gs.

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

They are a company. Companies are out to make money, nothing else.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

iPad 1G early adopters got a device with iOS 3.2 on it. Following Apple's n+2 upgrade scheme, iOS 6 is inline to drop it.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

FaceTime. Oh wait... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1091418 How about taking pictures?

Again: Apple are scum.

Apple is a company. All they want is your money.

[rjohnstone]

Originally Posted by sixteen12

Yes like Android phones.

Want S-Voice...need a GS3. GS2 didn't get it in an update.
It also allows apple to keep older phones up to date by not ramming features down the throat of the phone if the phone can't properly use. In the end you get a phone that updates features and has a user base that has 80% of its users on its most recent release vs 7% on the latest major iteration (4.0.x).

Bad example.

You don't "need" a GS3 to run S-Voice.
The only thing you "need" is Android 4.x.
Simply copy the S-Voice app to your GS2 and install it.
S-Voice is nothing more than Vlingo with a visual treatment.
It runs just fine on any GS2. In fact it runs great on some HTC and LG devices as well.

Just like you don't "need" an iPhone 4S to run Siri.
It runs the same on an iPhone 4. Never tried it on a 3GS.

[VSMacOne]

@aitte I'll buy you iPad for $1. Heck I'll even give you $100

[aitte]

Originally Posted by Intell

The GPU in the 3Gs is the same in the iPad, but the 3Gs is much more powerful when it comes to graphical abilities. Even the RAM in the 3Gs gives it some edge over the iPad. On a default fresh restore of both devices running the same iOS version, the 3Gs has more unused RAM then the iPad. The only thing the iPad 1G beats the 3Gs at is CPU performance, but even then it's very close to the speed of the 3Gs running iOS 5.

The lockout has nothing to do with GPU. There's nothing apart from the Maps app that even uses the GPU in iOS6's new features. It's yet another artificial lockout, and one that was done way too soon. When iPad 1 reached 4-5 years, I'd accept it, but two years!? For a "revolutionary post-PC device"? More like a revolutionary door-stopper.

Originally Posted by Intell

Last I checked, this feature is going to be on the 3Gs.

You are wrong. Read the bottom of the page at http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/.

Originally Posted by Intell

Apple is a company. All they want is your money.

They got my money for a "desktop replacement" tablet a mere two years ago. It is now worth as much as a doorstopper. The second hand value is about $250 for a 64gb wifi model where I live, and that was before the announcement that it will no longer get iOS updates. Expect that to drop further.

[Intell]

Originally Posted by aitte

The lockout has nothing to do with GPU. There's nothing apart from the Maps app that even uses the GPU in iOS6's new features. It's yet another artificial lockout, and one that was done way too soon. When iPad 1 reached 4-5 years, I'd accept it, but two years!? For a "revolutionary post-PC device"? More like a revolutionary door-stopper.

The lockout has to do with the n+2 rule in the ELUA, not the graphical abilities. Thus far, the 3Gs is the only exception to this rule. Likely because it is still being sold as new and it is being targeted to emerging markets. And the less initial RAM used by the system amount could help it.

http://www.whited00r.com/iphone-2g/ <- Here you go, iOS 5 for your old devices.

whited00r is just an illegally redistributed themed iOS 3.1.3 firmware. It is not iOS 4, nor 5, nor 6. It is still using iOS 3.1.3 API's and cannot run iOS 4+ only applications.

You are wrong. Read the bottom of the page at http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/.

Thankfully my 3Gs is an old bootrom device that will have an untethered jailbreak for every version of iOS 6. That feature is likely controlled by a boolean value in the model identifier property list in SpringBoard.app. Should be easy to add it and set it to true.

They got my money for a "desktop replacement" tablet a mere two years ago. It is now worth as much as a doorstopper.

Desktop replacement? Unless you are an older grandmother type, an iPad is by no means a desktop replacement. While it may come close to it, it still has its very hard set limits.

[aitte]

I'll just say one more thing:



I hope Android takes over and matures as a platform to attract even more developers. I agree that the screen resolution, GPU and CPU power differences are a major hurdle for it. Google really should have set some strict standards that all licensed devices must follow, such as certain evenly divisible resolutions for smartphones, and others for tablets, all higher ones being twice the lower one, to ensure that apps can scale gracefully. I.e. smartphones: 640x480, 1280x960. Tablets: 1280x960, 2560x1920. They should also have demanded certain CPU and GPU standards at each resolution, measured using some official benchmarking program, to ensure that all devices meet a certain standard. Had those steps been taken, Android would have been an even better platform.

For now I gotta think about what to do. If I had $0 invested in actual software for the iOS platform, I would leave now, but since I have over $1000 in software, in addition to the $950 for the iPad 1, it's not as easy to cut my losses and leave.

Chances are I'll stay with the iPad 1 on iOS 5 and become more and more pissed off when apps start requiring iOS 6, then finally upgrade a year from now. Apple wins as usual.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by Intell

Desktop replacement? Unless you are an older grandmother type, an iPad is by no means a desktop replacement. While it may come close to it, it still has its very hard set limits.

Yeah, that's not the first time he's called the iPad a desktop replacement. Below is a snip from his OP in this thread.

To me, it sounds like he's got buyers remorse from having jumped in feet first with a new technology that didn't pan out the way he thought it was (i.e. a desktop replacement).

Originally Posted by aitte

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software

[Intell]

I'm guessing you didn't look at the 2012 Q1 bars of that graph of yours did you? Android dropped to 2011 Q3 values and the iPad rose to 2011 Q2 values.

[aitte]

[reply on next page of thread.]

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by aitte

Chances are I'll stay with the iPad 1 on iOS 5 and become more and more pissed off when apps start requiring iOS 6, then finally upgrade a year from now. Apple wins as usual.

Even if you didn't have $1000 in software invested in iOS, what would you get by switching to Android?

Your iPad 1 got two full OS upgrades after you purchased it. (iOS 3 -> iOS 4 -> iOS 5).

The Moto Xoom got it's first full OS upgrade, ... three months after the upgrade was released. What do you think the chances are that it's going to get a second full OS upgrade?

Seriously, which Android manufacturer had a track record of handling upgrades like Apple does?