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Old Feb 7, 2015, 09:38 PM   #1
Zeos
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Goodbye Apple. It's been a fun ride.

Well, after several years of Apple laptop ownership, we are going back to Windows on our next laptop. We converted during the "Hi I'm a PC" ads, and loved how the Mac truly just worked. But now, after it seems Apple has overextended OS X with features and neglected the everyday cleanup up of code, we can no longer justify the premium price. Our laptops hang, apps stop running, the iMac, Air, and Mini frequently bomb overnight, iTunes sync is a mess, the gray screen of death is becoming more common, and the spinning beachball is a common occurrence. Even my friends are saying that they "aren't as happy with Apple as we used to be." So, do I spend $1,800 on the next MBA, or do I spend $850 on a souped-up Windows PC? I can buy two of those in four years and still come out ahead. I hope that Apple is again worth the price someday.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 10:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Zeos View Post
Well, after several years of Apple laptop ownership, we are going back to Windows on our next laptop. We converted during the "Hi I'm a PC" ads, and loved how the Mac truly just worked. But now, after it seems Apple has overextended OS X with features and neglected the everyday cleanup up of code, we can no longer justify the premium price. Our laptops hang, apps stop running, the iMac, Air, and Mini frequently bomb overnight, iTunes sync is a mess, the gray screen of death is becoming more common, and the spinning beachball is a common occurrence. Even my friends are saying that they "aren't as happy with Apple as we used to be." So, do I spend $1,800 on the next MBA, or do I spend $850 on a souped-up Windows PC? I can buy two of those in four years and still come out ahead. I hope that Apple is again worth the price someday.
In b4 fanboys with pitchforks arrive!

If you can holdout just a little longer, I would recommend getting the Surface Pro 4 that will have a core M chip inside. Those things are going to be awesome. If you are needing a computer now, I would recommend getting the HP version of the surface... I think its the HP x360. They just released it and its already on sale for $799 down from $1099 and it comes with a core M chip. The whole device is really built well too with all aluminum/gorilla glass, detachable keyboard, 256gb ssd I believe.

Don't buy an older processor, you will be mad you did.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 10:01 PM   #3
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Have fun with Windows 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeos View Post
Well, after several years of Apple laptop ownership, we are going back to Windows on our next laptop. We converted during the "Hi I'm a PC" ads, and loved how the Mac truly just worked. But now, after it seems Apple has overextended OS X with features and neglected the everyday cleanup up of code, we can no longer justify the premium price. Our laptops hang, apps stop running, the iMac, Air, and Mini frequently bomb overnight, iTunes sync is a mess, the gray screen of death is becoming more common, and the spinning beachball is a common occurrence. Even my friends are saying that they "aren't as happy with Apple as we used to be." So, do I spend $1,800 on the next MBA, or do I spend $850 on a souped-up Windows PC? I can buy two of those in four years and still come out ahead. I hope that Apple is again worth the price someday.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 10:48 PM   #4
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I just got one of the Dell XPS 13's with the touch screen. Its a great machine if you're looking for suggestions. Meanwhile, since updating to 10.10.2 my other half is dealing with having to toggle wifi every time she uses her MacBook pro.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 11:04 PM   #5
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Windows 8 has way more reliability problems and crashes far more in my experience than all versions of OS X put together. My Surface Pro 3 tablet which I use for work has a lot more problems (some random freezes, sometimes not connecting to Wifi after coming out of connected standby, not coming out of connected standby and needed to hard reset) than my primary system 2011 MBA 13 which has never once crashed or kernel panic on me.

It's up to you but if I' spending more than 11 Benjamins, I would always go Apple since they're better than any other PureCrap (PC) at those price range anyways.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 11:16 PM   #6
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This happens each time there is a big OS change.

OS X is currently like the period of Windows Vista. Then when Windows does a big version change, OS X will look better because it is in a stable state. Then when OS X does a big change again, Windows will look more stable. And around and around it will go unless they both decide to sync up their big framework/kernel changes.
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Old Feb 7, 2015, 11:53 PM   #7
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I always love when people tell me how you could get Windows laptop that is just as good or better for less than half the price of a Mac.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 12:23 AM   #8
Zeos
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Have fun with Windows 8.
lol. I use Win 7 at work with fewer problems than OS X. That is the problem. Won't be using Win 8 (thankfully). Bad sign when Win 7 is less frustrating that OS X.

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This happens each time there is a big OS change.

OS X is currently like the period of Windows Vista. Then when Windows does a big version change, OS X will look better because it is in a stable state. Then when OS X does a big change again, Windows will look more stable. And around and around it will go unless they both decide to sync up their big framework/kernel changes.
Trouble is, OS X WAS stable for a long time. The instability in Apple is now felt in OS X and iOS. That kills workflow.

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I always love when people tell me how you could get Windows laptop that is just as good or better for less than half the price of a Mac.
My son just bought himself an Alienware laptop. And yes, he loves it lots more than his Air which is now on eBay. We was first to jump ship. Not quite half the price, but it doesn't beachball/hourglass him and hang nearly as much. I'm next (but not getting Alienware). Even as I type this, my wife it walking around waiting for her Air to stop beachballing. It's getting ridiculous; we have never cursed Apple products so much as we have in the last several months. That goes for the iPhone too. Aren't you tired of TouchID failing and your touchscreen not recognizing your first swipe?? And then there's Spotlight failures, Safari not always responding on the 6 Plus in horizontal mode, and the random restarts and app crashes.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 12:23 AM   #9
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I think this is clearly a pebkac issue.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 05:12 AM   #10
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For what is supposed to be a cohesive experience, there is certainly a lot of mess currently in OS X. But then there's definitely a lot of clutter in Windows, too.

My gripe is that I think it's way past due the laptop lineup had a chassis redesign.
Also, Windows 8.1 > Windows 7. Sorry.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 05:12 AM   #11
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I think this is clearly a pebkac issue.
Maybe but I think it's also true that overall, at least lately, Apple has become rather sloppy on the software front.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 05:31 AM   #12
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Also, Windows 8.1 > Windows 7. Sorry.
QFT.

However, it hardly matters anymore with Windows 10 just round the corner.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 05:58 AM   #13
Zxxv
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just for the record my 2014 my macbook air is fine
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 06:03 AM   #14
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Maybe but I think it's also true that overall, at least lately, Apple has become rather sloppy on the software front.
I agree. I feel like I've been running into bugs and poor UI at an increasing rate. It's unfortunate.

But the OP's experience as described is obviously atypical. Either he's exaggerating his problems or IMO he should put a little effort into getting his stuff to work as designed (and as it works for most other people), maybe by having somebody at a Genius Bar check it out.

If he thinks a Windows computer is going to be any better, though, good luck with that. I use Windows 8 on my HTPC and I basically just use a web browser on it and VLC and it still seems to have some problem or another that I have to sort out every few weeks.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 06:05 AM   #15
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I'll agree iTunes sync across devices is broken.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 06:51 AM   #16
saudor
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Running 8.1 on my PC. Not a single crash. Fast and fluid all the time.
Meanwhile my iPad crashes daily. iPhone, not as much. and lol Yosemite.

At least i was able to downgrade my mac to mavericks so it's not too bad.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 07:17 AM   #17
Pakaku
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Buy Macs for the hardware, use whatever OS and software you want on it.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 07:28 AM   #18
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Running 8.1 on my PC. Not a single crash. Fast and fluid all the time.
Meanwhile my iPad crashes daily. iPhone, not as much. and lol Yosemite.

At least i was able to downgrade my mac to mavericks so it's not too bad.
Its a sad state of affairs (for apple) when you see how stable windows is and OS X isn't.

I agree, that win 8.1 has been incredibly stable and a great performer. I'm very happy with what MS rolled out. I'm equally impressed at how stable win 10 is.

I've long held the belief that you choose the best tool for the job and not be married to the logo. For years it was Apple because of the great designs, great components, and solid OS. I can't say that unequivocally today because of the issues with dGPUs on the MBPs and Yosemite having its issues.

I still prefer OS X over windows, but that doesn't mean I'm going to choose one product just because it has a fruit logo.

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Buy Macs for the hardware, use whatever OS and software you want on it.
I think you're paying a premium and losing out on one of the key advantages to apple. The integration of the hardware and software. While you can run windows, I think using Apple hardware and its OS together is where you really gain the advantages of the apple products.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 07:28 AM   #19
Ulenspiegel
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I use both platforms extensively (work, home).
With Windows based PCs there are problems almost on daily basis. Solvable, but annoying.
So, for the time being I prefer Apple. No problems at all so far, though I avoid Yosemite like plague.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 07:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Zeos View Post
Well, after several years of Apple laptop ownership, we are going back to Windows on our next laptop. We converted during the "Hi I'm a PC" ads, and loved how the Mac truly just worked. But now, after it seems Apple has overextended OS X with features and neglected the everyday cleanup up of code, we can no longer justify the premium price. Our laptops hang, apps stop running, the iMac, Air, and Mini frequently bomb overnight, iTunes sync is a mess, the gray screen of death is becoming more common, and the spinning beachball is a common occurrence. Even my friends are saying that they "aren't as happy with Apple as we used to be." So, do I spend $1,800 on the next MBA, or do I spend $850 on a souped-up Windows PC? I can buy two of those in four years and still come out ahead. I hope that Apple is again worth the price someday.
I hear your frustration. The latest iteration OS X/iOS/iTunes is not a stable mix. But, the multitude of issues you describe seems somewhat unlikely. Multiple MacBooks, iMac, Mini all bombing overnight ? Have you checked the power supply in your house for spikes and brown-outs ?

I find the claim Apple's "premium price" over PCs doesn't hold water. It hasn't for a long time. Show me a PC Ultrabook for $850 that comes with 8GB/i7/512SSD.


Please compare specs between a $1800 MBA and an $850 Ultrabook.
Sure, PC laptops start at a much lower end than MacBooks, but comparing spec for spec the difference between Macs & PCs is rarely more than 10-20%, not the 2x + you claim.

The MBA starts out at $899 and the maxed out 13" ends at $1749 with an i7 & 512GB SSD.
Take Dell's newest 13" XPS ultra book, starting at $899 (i5) and when loaded tops out at $1449 with max i5 & 256GB SSD, whereas the MBA goes to i7 & 512GB.
With an i5 & 256GB, the MBA is only $1299.

Granted, you get the new QHD display on the higher priced Dell, but the point is, given the same specs, PCs are not a whole lot cheaper.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 08:04 AM   #21
tentales
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[/COLOR]

Trouble is, OS X WAS stable for a long time. The instability in Apple is now felt in OS X and iOS. That kills workflow.

----------



My son just bought himself an Alienware laptop. And yes, he loves it lots more than his Air which is now on eBay. We was first to jump ship. Not quite half the price, but it doesn't beachball/hourglass him and hang nearly as much. I'm next (but not getting Alienware). Even as I type this, my wife it walking around waiting for her Air to stop beachballing. It's getting ridiculous; we have never cursed Apple products so much as we have in the last several months. That goes for the iPhone too. Aren't you tired of TouchID failing and your touchscreen not recognizing your first swipe?? And then there's Spotlight failures, Safari not always responding on the 6 Plus in horizontal mode, and the random restarts and app crashes.
So why not downgrade OS X to one of the stable releases ? Mavericks on 10.9.5 is pretty solid. In fact, I haven't seen a beach ball in years on my MacMini, even under Lion. Sure, nothing beats the stability of Snow Leopard, but we're all hoping that Apple will follow the feature-itis release of Yosemite with something along the lines of SL. Much like Leopard was a feature packed release, but still not as buggy or ugly (IMHO) as Yosemite.

Before you throw in the towel on Apple, check your network (DNS servers, etc.) and try a fresh install. Something I've never ever done is upgrade OS X. Always do a fresh install, then migrate your user files from the backup/TimeMachine disk.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 08:21 AM   #22
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I hear your frustration. .....The MBA starts out at $899 and the maxed out 13" ends at $1749 with an i7 & 512GB SSD.
Take Dell's newest 13" XPS ultra book, starting at $899 (i5) and when loaded tops out at $1449 with max i5 & 256GB SSD, whereas the MBA goes to i7 & 512GB.
With an i5 & 256GB, the MBA is only $1299.

Granted, you get the new QHD display on the higher priced Dell, but the point is, given the same specs, PCs are not a whole lot cheaper.
PC's ARE a whole lot cheaper, there's always more price competition. Comparing MSRP's is only accurate for Apple where $10-$20 discounts are the best you'll ever do and even refurbished only knocks off about 20%.

Shopping around for PC's finds frequent sales with 30% or more discounts available.

http://slickdeals.net/coupons/dell-home-outlet/
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 08:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Zeos View Post

My son just bought himself an Alienware laptop. And yes, he loves it lots more than his Air which is now on eBay. We was first to jump ship. Not quite half the price, but it doesn't beachball/hourglass him and hang nearly as much. I'm next (but not getting Alienware). Even as I type this, my wife it walking around waiting for her Air to stop beachballing. It's getting ridiculous; we have never cursed Apple products so much as we have in the last several months. That goes for the iPhone too. Aren't you tired of TouchID failing and your touchscreen not recognizing your first swipe?? And then there's Spotlight failures, Safari not always responding on the 6 Plus in horizontal mode, and the random restarts and app crashes.
Funny how the things that you describe never happens on my 2011 MacBook Air with Yosemite. I've never seen a beach ball on any of my daily tasks or even moderately CPU intensive tasks. BeachBalls showing up might be due to CPU throttling too much, I've cleaned the fans every 2 weeks since I purchased it to prevent dust build up. Maybe I'm just lucky that my MBA works perfectly.

I bet you the same thing will happen to your Windows laptop. I just couldn't stand their horrendous build quality except for my Surface Pro 3 which is the only Windows device that I'll consider to keep.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 08:42 AM   #24
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.....I bet you the same thing will happen to your Windows laptop. I just couldn't stand their horrendous build quality except for my Surface Pro 3 which is the only Windows device that I'll consider to keep.
Choices are great; I have had wonderful and terrible experiences with both Windows and Apple devices.
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Old Feb 8, 2015, 08:43 AM   #25
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PC's ARE a whole lot cheaper, there's always more price competition. Comparing MSRP's is only accurate for Apple where $10-$20 discounts are the best you'll ever do and even refurbished only knocks off about 20%.

Shopping around for PC's finds frequent sales with 30% or more discounts available.

http://slickdeals.net/coupons/dell-home-outlet/
Expensive PCs are supposed to have materials and build quality comparable to Macs, but none actually compelled me except for Surface Pro 3. The display color accuracy is comparable to Macs which none of the similarly priced PCs can match it.

Of course you can get better hardware specs (except for display, WiFi, camera, etc. excluding CPU, RAM, GPU) for the price, but it's up to one's taste if that person wants cheap looking device rather than a magnificent looking machine.
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