Wow. Apple Maps is a disaster.

[Brazuca]

Originally Posted by cynics

How do you find a place you've been there for? You recognize the location. I don't use it much but its helpful during sporting events or anytime someplace is going to be overly crowded. During the grand prix I used it to scout out parking garages and where there entrances are.

I found a good use for streetview:

Garmin's new app:

- GOOGLE STREET VIEW provides users a street-level view of their destination before starting a route and shortly before arriving.

That is neat. It can show you what the place you want looks like as you get to your destination.

[Moi un Mouton]

Maps - they're for finding things, right?

For example, say you're in Bracknell, UK - a town of 50,000 people (including me) and home to many international companies' UK headquarters, partly because it has good railway connections to London and the West. You want to find the railway station. Well, bad luck, according to Apple, there isn't a railway station in Bracknell. And if you're sneaky enough to think "I think there is, I'll look for it on the satellite" - well, they've got you covered there, too. If Apple decides to tell you there's no railway station in Bracknell, just ********** believe it, will you.

Oh well, try nearby Slough, on Brunel's famous Great Western mainline to London Paddington. There's a station there, right? Yes there is - it has a high speed 18 minute service to London - but it's not shown on Apple Maps, so bad luck again!

Still, at least Slough and Bracknell are on the map - just up the road, Windsor is not so lucky. It's not shown at all. Yes, Windsor - where the Queen lives. Not marked on Apple Maps. I'm not kidding you. If you're not sure where to look, Google Maps can help: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Win...d+Kingdom&z=14

Want something else to try? Pretend you're one of the many American visitors we had at the Olympic Park this summer. You're there, and you can't remember the way to the tube station. Go on, just try it...... here's some clues to help you:
- you can remember the three nearest are Leyton, Stratford and West Ham.
- you want the tube, not the DLR
- you want walking directions

So please, those of you who want to respond, it's great, it works for me in Texas, maybe a good Maps app is about just a little bit more than that.

[PhoneandPad]

It has just occurred to me that Apple does not have modern management capable of operating sensibly in a collaborative/competitive digital world. Firstly someone should get the sack at Apple soon, that or public holders of Apple stock should start to make a smart exit.

[BaldiMac]

Originally Posted by PhoneandPad

It has just occurred to me that Apple does not have modern management capable of operating sensibly in a collaborative/competitive digital world. Firstly someone should get the sack at Apple soon, that or public holders of Apple stock should start to make a smart exit.

That's usually called a daydream. You'll snap back to reality soon.

[Reach9]

truly agree.. Apple maps is really poor. They should've released Apple maps as a beta to developers for years before finally launching it.

I find that many issues with Apple maps are found in my Tom Tom turn by turn navigator as well.. hmmm

[BoxerGT2.5]

Originally Posted by Reach9

truly agree.. Apple maps is really poor. They should've released Apple maps as a beta to developers for years before finally launching it.

I find that many issues with Apple maps are found in my Tom Tom turn by turn navigator as well.. hmmm

What that means is apple ****ed up, not Tom Tom.

[firestarter]

Originally Posted by PhoneandPad

It has just occurred to me that Apple does not have modern management capable of operating sensibly in a collaborative/competitive digital world. Firstly someone should get the sack at Apple soon, that or public holders of Apple stock should start to make a smart exit.

This is a strong possibility. Has Tim Cook surrounded himself by yes-men, and suppressed voices of dissent? Surely someone in the management meetings pointed out that this new app sucks?

Maybe they're all too busy worrying about their massive stock option rewards to think about rocking the boat?

[kaielement]

Been using the maps for almost a week. Then to day I input an address and it routs me two city's over. I even put the city name and zip code. It was very strange seeing as I haven't had any issues luckily I was quick thinking and used google maps in Safari and was able to get directions. What a bummer I had such high hopes.

[specify]

I'm trying to see your point of view, I am.

Originally Posted by pdqgp

I am in need of a replacement. You're right though, I've not bought it yet. The new model is an update. It's not the same car, it's the newer more improved model according to Ford.

So applying an update in the form of a new engine with less power and daily drivability for the sake of gas mileage and whatever reasons were behind it doesn't impact my daily use and enjoyment of the car?

You simply can't compare your example to what's going on.

1. It's not owned by you. The phone is purchased by you, the company car isn't.
2. If we were to follow your example, the engine should be comparable to the processor of the phone (it's the most crucial to the functionality of the phone) and not at all comparable to one of many "features" (Apps) available on the phone.

Like I said, my example with the navigation system is much more analogous: the car is the phone itself, the navigation system is the maps app, the engine is the CPU, etc.

Never assume and buyer beware have been around for years man. If no data is around or was around for others to feel they "knew" enough to either make or not make a sound decision, shouldn't they have perhaps waited? Does the lack of any tangable data points really make the move a smart one to make? YMMV but in my world, I'd have waited to see and if I chose not to but in turn to be the guinea pig, then I'd at least stand by my decision and role doing so. I'm not asking they love the results aka product but own the role and don't go around blaming only others.

The mindset of gathering all the information you can and making an informed decision is ideal but realistically won't be the model that we irrational and illogical humans adhere to 100% of the time. And thankfully so, otherwise everyone would be waiting for everyone else to take the leap so we could figure out whether or not to jump ourselves.

The trend? Really? There have been gripes in the past about every release. I continue to mention the last two that go large amounts of press, antenna gate in the iP4, Battery life in iOS5, even Siri has had it's share of hate. I don't know about you, but those right there show a trend of possible reasons not to be the first to upgrade. They've even spawned a slew of Droid Does Commercials implying the iPhone doesn't and the ones now where Samsung is saying the future is already here or whatever it is...... The trend is use caution and Apple isn't impervious to needing to think that way.

Well, I was originally talking about iOS updates but my point still holds. The word "update" itself holds a positive connotation with respect to software/systems/etc. Users expect improvement when there's an "update" to their system.
I think the difference between those past issues you listed and this maps issue is the fact that this maps app was intentional and replaced a popular feature while the other ones you pointed out were unintentional or simply a new feature that didn't replace anything (Siri).

I think understand what you mean but I'm also sure you understand that the urge to have the "latest and greatest" plagues even the smartest consumers. Was that the purpose of your original post? To promote smart consumerism?

[richarddwyer10]

[pdqgp]

You simply can't compare your example to what's going on.

1. It's not owned by you. The phone is purchased by you, the company car isn't.
2. If we were to follow your example, the engine should be comparable to the processor of the phone (it's the most crucial to the functionality of the phone) and not at all comparable to one of many "features" (Apps) available on the phone.

I don't see how who holds the title is relevant. I'm benefiting and using the car as the "owner". My role and benefits and use and care of it, enjoyment and pains having to get work done are on me just as if I paid my own money. In a way I did because I have free will to buy any vehicle under $36k USD so really, I do own the decision and selection. It's up to me to choose wisely. I use it daily, more than my phone as it's a mobile office. The benefits of it are important to me.

The engine is directly equiv. to maps. As many say maps is key to them, as is the engine to me. It's central to my enjoyment of the vehicle. I like performance in my cars and it's often highest on my list of desires.

The mindset of gathering all the information you can and making an informed decision is ideal but realistically won't be the model that we irrational and illogical humans adhere to 100% of the time. And thankfully so, otherwise everyone would be waiting for everyone else to take the leap so we could figure out whether or not to jump ourselves.

You're right, the innovators and early adopters that make up the first 15% of a market are critical to gaining the mass market segment which makes up the middle 68% of all buyers. However, they make their initial move based on gut feelings because of what's in it for them, how it makes them feel and that satisfaction of being first....but that feeling does come with risk and my point is that 15% still owns that decision and can't point the finger soley at Apple. They knew the risks yet moved anyway.

The rest of world also owns the decision to make the move to iOS6 or an iP5 but here they have the opportunity to review the experiences of the others. Here however, many of the people who are complaining are the same folks that had exposure to the iOS6 forum since June and the same exposure to the many threads discussing new maps limitations and drawbacks. The same ones who experienced simliar issues in the previous two launches

Well, I was originally talking about iOS updates but my point still holds. The word "update" itself holds a positive connotation with respect to software/systems/etc. Users expect improvement when there's an "update" to their system.

I can see your point, I really can, however, while the word update may have a connotation of an improvement, don't you think they should be looking what they are going from / to before they press play? and if they truly don't know or can't find it is it truly a good decision to press the update button? Really? I don't think that's too much to ask someone. However, again, 15% of the time, people will jump in feet-first...but doing so knowing there's an unknown. All I'm asking is they accept that and be accountable for it. I'm not saying they don't have a right to be upset with the cards they were dealt, but don't go pointing 100% at Apple as you did have a choice and an opportunity to wait even a day or two.

I think the difference between those past issues you listed and this maps issue is the fact that this maps app was intentional and replaced a popular feature while the other ones you pointed out were unintentional or simply a new feature that didn't replace anything (Siri).

Antenna Gate was purposeful move by Apple to replace the design of an antenna to match the new body. iOS5's battery issues is very much the same as maps, a purposeful update to add features that resulted in less performance in terms of power management than the previous version. In both cases people were take from something that works to something that worked much less effectively. Two cautions, both after an "upgrade" and yet they still don't see the potential risks?

I think understand what you mean but I'm also sure you understand that the urge to have the "latest and greatest" plagues even the smartest consumers. Was that the purpose of your original post? To promote smart consumerism?

I do. I absolutely do. I am an early adopter too. In my case I love being the first to make the move, I'm a little more cautious though as I spent 18 years selling software and working in IT so I know the risks all too well. The purpose of my initial responses and continued responses is to enlighten folks to more than just their version of what they feel is solely happening to them and showing them that they play a role in deciding their next moves too.

I appreciate your insight as well.

[dv8r]

Originally Posted by firestarter

This is a strong possibility. Has Tim Cook surrounded himself by yes-men, and suppressed voices of dissent? Surely someone in the management meetings pointed out that this new app sucks?

Maybe they're all too busy worrying about their massive stock option rewards to think about rocking the boat?

Good question - I think they took a calculated risk, and miscalculated the fallout. It will be interesting to see if this thing even makes a mark in the sales figures over the next quarters.

Is it me or are this iPhone launch botched? The maps app, the scratches on the black model, wi-fi issues, a confused and slow Siri, bad build quality on the white model... maybe it's time to sell.

[MarqueeK]

So from recent news we find out:

1. Google "We haven't done anything" - Google may be months away from a standalone Google Map app.

2. Apple is frantically trying to hire former Google employees who worked on Maps - Serious facepalm. I would have thought that at least Apple already had a sizable dedicated team ready to extinguish the flames. I personally think it would be an insult for the former Google employees to be asked to work on Apple Maps.

3. Apple reportedly had one more year left in the contract with Google - My initial thoughts were that Google essentially walked out and Apple didn't have a choice but to fast-track on a Map App. If they had a choice to keep Google Map until next year, had they compared their own creation to Google's, had they thought about the repercussions this would bring, wouldn't they have spent another year trying to make a presentable product?

I'm totally lost as to what Apple was thinking. Can someone explain?

[dotme]

The idea was solid. The artwork is okay. The execution is just not there. Failure to launch. And nobody in Cupertino had the balls to say anything?

Oh and congrats to the OP for pointing this out in June. He knew it. Apple must have known it too.

[pdqgp]

Originally Posted by MarqueeK

I'm totally lost as to what Apple was thinking. Can someone explain?

I can't say what they were thinking and this article might have been posted here elsewhere but it is IMO likely in line with what they might have been faced with.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/...n-google-maps/

One quote from the article:

"Not doing its own Maps would be a far bigger mistake," says Asymco's Horace Dediu, who addressed the issue at length in last week's Critical Path podcast. "The mistake was not getting involved in maps sooner, which was on Jobs' watch. Nokia saw the writing on the wall five years ago and burned $8 billion to get in front of the problem. The pain Apple feels now is deferred from when they decided to hand over that franchise to Google at the beginning of iPhone."

But the fact is, the company found itself in the position of feeding its customers' priceless location information into the mapping database of its mortal enemy. That couldn't go on forever.

[Funkmasta]

The bottom line is that with Google's Maps Apple would never be allowed to have Turn By Turn on the iPhone.

They decided that offering turn by turn NOW was more important than having a polished and finished Maps app NOW.

In a year we can hope that nobody will even talk about this anymore (because it's been fixed).

[dv8r]

Originally Posted by pdqgp

You're right, the innovators and early adopters that make up the first 15% of a market are critical to gaining the mass market segment which makes up the middle 68% of all buyers. However, they make their initial move based on gut feelings because of what's in it for them, how it makes them feel and that satisfaction of being first....but that feeling does come with risk and my point is that 15% still owns that decision and can't point the finger soley at Apple. They knew the risks yet moved anyway.

Seth Godin did this otaku thing on TED, where he mentions (amongst other things) the way Apple markets their stuff. The early adopters are the ones you want to talk to and make happy because they generate a lot of talk and they share their experiences with a lot of other people. Apple has done this for a very long time - one of the results you see are the fanboys for better or worse. When they screwed people over with Final Cut X, it seemed like they were loosing a lot of their high regard amongst those users and now they seem to alienate a good deal of the users that are willing to pre-order any iPhone without even seeing it or using it. It really isn't so simple when people start to obsess over things - you don't make all rational decisions, not that i (and others) are un-accountable, but it is fair to say that Apple betrayed some of the trust they spend years earning - now, i won't ever trust any Apple update... i did so before.

[MarqueeK]

Originally Posted by pdqgp

I can't say what they were thinking and this article might have been posted here elsewhere but it is IMO likely in line with what they might have been faced with.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/...n-google-maps/

One quote from the article:

Good read.
But there has been no words from Apple promoting the crowd-sourcing, or even that the data users are submitting are being put to good use.
If they can prove this by actually showing corrections that have been made, I think more people will start to use the Report Problem feature. My guess is that most people think that problems reported in this way are just headed to the abyss.
Also, the above points are purely about data points and search results. The actual map overlay, which is the first thing the users see, with it's missing rivers and lakes and pixelated cities can not be solved by crowd-sourcing but rather with collaboration of data providers.
With all the good ones signed up with Google (an example in Japan would be Zenrin) I don't see how Apple can catch up in this sense unless they do something crazy like start using OpenStreeMaps and crowd-source the maps themselves. And that's only the street maps, not the satellite overlay.

[pdqgp]

Originally Posted by dv8r

Seth Godin did this otaku thing on TED, where he mentions (amongst other things) the way Apple markets their stuff.

He did that presentation for my company live a few years back. Great show. That's where I drew those points from.

The early adopters are the ones you want to talk to and make happy because they generate a lot of talk and they share their experiences with a lot of other people. Apple has done this for a very long time - one of the results you see are the fanboys for better or worse.

I agree, but Apple has long since crossed the 15% market share threshold and even if they alienate the first 15% of their base they have quite a bit that will stay. I suppose you could say I'm one of the 16%+.

When they screwed people over with Final Cut X, it seemed like they were loosing a lot of their high regard amongst those users and now they seem to alienate a good deal of the users that are willing to pre-order any iPhone without even seeing it or using it.

Consider the raging success they had with pre-orders and those within the first 24hrs, it's safe to say the last two flubs didn't hurt them much at all. Time will tell come next year to see if this one does. My guess is they will respond with well and in time to save at least half of those rattled with maps.

It really isn't so simple when people start to obsess over things - you don't make all rational decisions, not that i (and others) are un-accountable, but it is fair to say that Apple betrayed some of the trust they spend years earning - now, i won't ever trust any Apple update... i did so before.

I agree, it's not easy to control that passion and urge to update and buy. Many years ago I upgraded to a Palm IIIc. Remember those? Worst product upgrade/purchase I made. Nothing but problems and down right pissed me off at myself for getting that caught up in the hype. Let's just say what I felt then, I won't forget. Welcome to the club

[Streetrocket]

Originally Posted by MSUSpartan

So here are the steps folks:

1) Decide on a place to eat
2) Fire up Apple Maps to find out where it is
3) Drive a bit, and based on the view you find that you are lost
4) Fire up Apple Maps again, but switch to satellite view
5) Derive from the pin that the restaurant is not located in an empty field
6) Click on pin to fire up Yelp, locate phone number
7) Call restaurant to find out the real location and address
8) Fire up maps.google.com on Safari
9) Pizza time

Well, after step 3 i did give up, and tell my wife to use her Android device...

[Brazuca]

There is some bizarre disconnect in iMaps POIs and search results. For example, a POI for Starbucks can be a whole block away, but a search for Starbucks will drop a pin in the right location. Whatever they are doing to place the POIs, they are screwing that up.

[musiciscool]

Originally Posted by cyks

That would make sense if not for one little problem... Google doesn't care about beating the iOS with Android. They only care about information.

The more people that use any of their products, the more information they can gather, and the more they can charge to advertisers.

They couldn't care less if people are using their maps on Android or on iOS, they're collecting the data and making their money from advertisers either way.

That's not entirely correct. They certainly want your data, but the most complete data mine they have is you on an android phone. Hey can track your movement, your calls, your emails, your driving speed, your internet searches, your app use, your texts... ALL of it, non stop! On an iPhone, they only had access to bits of it, which they didn't like. So it is in their interest to make you long for using their 'free' services in their full glory, which is on an Android phone. I don't trust Google, and I would rather use an old school 1st generation Nokia phone than use an android with full Google surveillance!

[musiciscool]

Are we forgetting that Al Gore sits on the board of Apple? If no one can trust their map, they'll stop going places, stay home and save on carbon emissions..... Maybe Al Gore sabotaged imaps!?

[BoxerGT2.5]

Originally Posted by musiciscool

Are we forgetting that Al Gore sits on the board of Apple? If no one can trust their map, they'll stop going places, stay home and save on carbon emissions..... Maybe Al Gore sabotaged imaps!?

Why wouldn't you want they guy who invented the internet on your board? lol

[dv8r]

Originally Posted by musiciscool

Are we forgetting that Al Gore sits on the board of Apple? If no one can trust their map, they'll stop going places, stay home and save on carbon emissions..... Maybe Al Gore sabotaged imaps!?

Well problem solved then, now he can get back to hunting ManBearPig.

But Apple Maps could also be a projection of what the world looks like after Global Warming.