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Old Jun 16, 2012, 03:54 PM   #101
RBR2
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Originally Posted by dwarnecke11 View Post
Well, if you believe all the Apple haters, you have to "throw away" your MBPwR when the battery goes.

This is a fair price.
You have a warped perspective. Because someone does not believe that the design is a good one or that the price is a fair one does not make them "Apple haters".

On the other hand, you are entitled to your opinion that the price is a fair one, just as others are entitled to their opinions to the contrary.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 04:00 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Death-T View Post
I can buy a car battery from Walmart for $90. This price is ridiculous. Hopefully it will be cheaper by the time I need a replacement though.
I'm sure you will be able to buy a converter so your MacBook takes power from that car battery. Bit heavy to carry around though.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 04:17 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by MarkMS View Post
Drop an SSD in that 2008 MBP and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's fast to where you can get an extra year or two out of your MBP.

My 2006 1st gen MBP is a Core Duo 2.16GHz and it still runs great with Snow Leopard. Battery is almost shot (only gets about 45mins with normal use), but it still handles native HD video with no problems. 1080p Flash Youtube videos push the MBP's limits and makes it run hot, but it still runs great. I dropped an SSD and honestly I would still use it if the video card was better and could handle more than 3.3GB RAM for my virtual machines. The ATI x1600 is too slow for my Starcraft/Diablo 3 needs.

Also my brother enjoys the 2006 MBP and he mainly uses it for college papers and occasional iTunes/Youtubing/Netflix. Maybe your 2005 was a iBook/Powerbook with PPC chipset which I can understand not working well it today's world. I have an iBook from 2004 which can barely run as an iTunes/file server.



I agree with the 5 year old machines still working well. I have a 1st gen 2.16GHz MBP from 2006 still working great. It became sluggish a while back so I dropped a SSD and gave it to my brother who loves it as a basic laptop for music, web, youtube, netflix, etc. I'd still use it if it weren't for my needs. It will become out of date when Apple stops supporting Snow Leopard, but I can always install 32bit Windows if I need a supported OS.

Yeah, I forgot my 2005 model was PPC single core with a big jump right after. PPC couldn't do 720p lol. Also, I tried putting a fast owc ssd in my 2008 and there were some garbage collection/trim issues (was supposed to have been fixed with new firmware but didn't work) it would work for a random time, then freeze my computer. Tried under leopard and snowleopard, something was just wrong so i returned it, been hesitant to try another ssd that doesn't come with the computer for that reason.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgg204 View Post
i find that hard to believe. i have a 2004 Dell Inspiron 8600 with a Pentium M and 2GB of DDR RAM and a 128MB ATI Radeon 9600 and it has no problems with the web and it plays HD video just fine. what it can't do is stream internet HD video (netflix, CNN HD, etc). it can play a 720p mp4 just fine.

not only that, the original battery still gives me 1 1/2 hrs of usage.

how is it that your 2008 MBP can't handle HD movies?
it can, but if I have a lot going on 1080p mkv stutters. Web streaming and flash in general is weak and slow. Also, encoding and rendering is painfully slow dealing with hd movies from a gopro. Even just playing them hey don't scrub smoothly as the system struggles to decode the data. Apply a smooth cam filter to a 5 min video? That's an overnight render.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 05:09 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by slackpacker View Post
Yup more money for a larger battery or is this the sign that the dollar is weakening?
Larger battery, but the big difference is it is glued in. That makes removal that much more tricky, as discussed in this thread.

The price for battery replacement is less than I expected considering the battery is glued in. I wonder what screen replacement cost is like, as I believe that is also less removable than previous models?
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 05:31 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Moonjumper View Post
Larger battery, but the big difference is it is glued in. That makes removal that much more tricky, as discussed in this thread.

The price for battery replacement is less than I expected considering the battery is glued in. I wonder what screen replacement cost is like, as I believe that is also less removable than previous models?
It will definitely be more expensive than the non-retina models. However, all of the unibody machines are easy to have the screens replaced as they come as a single module. When you are quoted a screen replacement from Apple on a unibody, it's for the whole module casing and all. The last machine that actually had just the LCD replaced was the non-unibody macbook.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 06:00 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Soy Cowboy View Post
The new battery is $200. The old battery was $130. Taking a dollar off the price is a psychological trick to fool people into thinking the price is lower than it actually is. As a reporter rounding up the price would be more instructive to you readers. Also, less annoying. Please don't participate in the scam.
bla, blah, blah, we all know this, anyone who was born, lived for some time, or is not a child of 5 knows its all marketing hocus pocus marketing is a trademark of USA. 200 or 199 its all the same to most people.

If I care about the price of Apple products then I should not be buying them. Not to say I don't expect the best from Apple I do. For example the Mac Pro and iMac are still great buys but personally unless you must holding off for 2013 would be my recommendation for those products since Apple really needs to refresh those two products. iMac much less than Mac Pro which needs one major product refresh.

Apple is not for everyone its for the rest who just don't want the bloatware called Microsoft or the headaches and nerdtopia of Linux.

I use by the way all 3 OS in some capacity to make money, but my true love and where I put my trust in is still Apple products and their "it just works" OS's.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR2 View Post
You have a warped perspective. Because someone does not believe that the design is a good one or that the price is a fair one does not make them "Apple haters".

On the other hand, you are entitled to your opinion that the price is a fair one, just as others are entitled to their opinions to the contrary.
So you hate it but you would still buy it? In other words its not a big deal and you just wanted to state nothing in particular but your opinion which of course your free to in every way, but sound like all opinions are equal which they are not.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 06:26 PM   #107
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This shouldn't matter anyway, get AppleCare with your machine, especially since everything is expensive to replace and guarantee most people buying a rMBP are gonna get a newer version in 3 years anyway...
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 06:31 PM   #108
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removed post

Last edited by inscrewtable; Jun 16, 2012 at 06:33 PM. Reason: ambiguous
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 07:10 PM   #109
Ariez
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This is why Apple is so popular and amazing, and why everyone loves Applecare. Charging only $199 for a battery replacement instead of making you get a new laptop like other companies.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 07:18 PM   #110
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I don't understand how anyone is complaining about the price of the battery replacement. In fact the relatively reasonable price of the battery replacement for the rMBP makes it that much more enticing for me.

It's a 95 Watt-hour battery. Ergo its an 11.1v ~8550mah Lithium Polymer pack. An average lipo battery of that size for R/C use runs for ~$130 or so. You have to figure a bit of a premium because Apple had this battery configured specifically for the rMBP plus the obligatory "Apple Tax". All in all, not that bad.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 08:31 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by pubwvj View Post
So, does the trend continue? Will the batteries take 50 years to get down to under one hour of usage time?

% hrs Year
100% 7 5
80% 5.6 10
80% 4.48 15
80% 3.584 20
80% 2.8672 25
80% 2.29376 30
80% 1.835008 35
80% 1.4680064 40
80% 1.17440512 45
80% 0.939524096 50
Nope. Battery capacity drops off quickly after 80% for each discharge/charge cycle.

I worked in the lithium-ion battery industry for a while. Here are some things I learned:
Under typical use, the battery capacity falls slowly with each cycle. A cycle is considered a full discharge and a full charge. This is true for every battery.

Some battery chemistries do not lose their capacity as quickly as others. That's what's supposed to make Apple's batteries better than the competition's. Other notebook batteries last about 300 cycles before they reach 80% like Apple's did before the Unibody MBP design.

Back to capacity loss: For each cycle, the battery loses a little capacity. The curve of capacity loss vs. cycles isn't linear. It's pretty flat then starts to take a dive pretty fast. So what happens is you might hit 80% in 1000 cycles, then 75% in only another 400 cycles, then 70% in another 100 cycles. It goes down really fast.

There's other issues that affect capacity. For most batteries, staying fully charged without being discharged can effect their life. Just sitting on the shelf affects them (fresh vs. old). They are also affected by temperature exposure and by how they are discharged (fast vs. slow).

Take all of that together and you get batteries that "die" before they hit 1000 cycles.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonjumper View Post
Larger battery, but the big difference is it is glued in. That makes removal that much more tricky, as discussed in this thread.
Did iFixit try a little heat with a hair drier or heat gun to remove the battery? Heat softens most adhesives. Apple probably expected this.

If one is replacing the battery, one doesn't need to worry about damaging it with the heat. It's a common technique.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 08:49 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by ghettochris View Post
Yeah, I forgot my 2005 model was PPC single core with a big jump right after. PPC couldn't do 720p lol. Also, I tried putting a fast owc ssd in my 2008 and there were some garbage collection/trim issues (was supposed to have been fixed with new firmware but didn't work) it would work for a random time, then freeze my computer. Tried under leopard and snowleopard, something was just wrong so i returned it, been hesitant to try another ssd that doesn't come with the computer for that reason.
Give Intel SSDs a try. They're a bit more expensive, but they are really reliable. I have 2x 160GB Intel X25Ms, one on the old 06 MBP and one in my current 09 MBP. Both run great without dealing with garbage collection/TRIM tweaks on OS X Snow Leopard or Lion. Bought them both in Nov 2010 from Newegg and I really don't notice any speed degradation yet.

I hear Crucial M4's are also just as reliable and better priced compared to Intel SSDs. As for OWC, they use Sandforce controllers and a few years back they weren't very reliable. But now they're better to where even Intel uses them.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 10:08 PM   #113
JAT
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Originally Posted by Eriamjh1138@DAN View Post
Nope. Battery capacity drops off quickly after 80% for each discharge/charge cycle.

I worked in the lithium-ion battery industry for a while. Here are some things I learned:
Under typical use, the battery capacity falls slowly with each cycle. A cycle is considered a full discharge and a full charge. This is true for every battery.

Some battery chemistries do not lose their capacity as quickly as others. That's what's supposed to make Apple's batteries better than the competition's. Other notebook batteries last about 300 cycles before they reach 80% like Apple's did before the Unibody MBP design.

Back to capacity loss: For each cycle, the battery loses a little capacity. The curve of capacity loss vs. cycles isn't linear. It's pretty flat then starts to take a dive pretty fast. So what happens is you might hit 80% in 1000 cycles, then 75% in only another 400 cycles, then 70% in another 100 cycles. It goes down really fast.
I believe it is faster than that, probably. Lithium will one day simply be dead. More like:

1000...80%
1100...75%
1200...73%
1208...dead

Of course, every battery's life will be different.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 11:10 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by jgg204 View Post
i find that hard to believe. i have a 2004 Dell Inspiron 8600 with a Pentium M and 2GB of DDR RAM and a 128MB ATI Radeon 9600 and it has no problems with the web and it plays HD video just fine. what it can't do is stream internet HD video (netflix, CNN HD, etc). it can play a 720p mp4 just fine.

not only that, the original battery still gives me 1 1/2 hrs of usage.

how is it that your 2008 MBP can't handle HD movies?
Battery is a crapshoot, as I've got that same computer, and I get 10 minutes these days. It's down to MANY factors, usage, storage, defects, and lot / batch numbers all wreak havoc with long term performance. Cannot compare with so many factors in the mix, it's more luck than science.

That said, how sad is it we had 1920x1200 15" displays in 2004, took damn near a decade to get back there. That stupid display kept me from getting a new laptop this whole time because I was waiting for more workspace, not less!

Erimjh1138@DAN is spot on with the battery info... Except for maybe the heat but, never keen on heating that chemistry above 60c, but that's just the chicken in me. Personally, I'd just "saw through" the adhesive using nylon dental floss. Or, if it's VHB, put a couple pounds of peel, and leave it until the tape fails. Heat guns and insanely flammable cells just ain't kosher.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 07:47 AM   #115
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It is not clear from where comes those 7h? From increased capacity? From a novel technology? With every novel MBP I noticed an ever increasing battery capacities... my MBP has merely 5500 mAh. The newest MBP Retina has more than 7000 mAh. The new devices are clearly more power hungry it seems to me.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariez View Post
This is why Apple is so popular and amazing, and why everyone loves Applecare. Charging only $199 for a battery replacement instead of making you get a new laptop like other companies.
Other companies let you to buy a NEW battery for the same price of replacement. You buy it and forget for the next few years.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 07:50 AM   #116
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perspective

that 2006 removable battery for a 17" Mac Pro was only 68 watts and even back then cost $129 and gave me maybe, maybe 3 hours per charge. and weighed a ton. yep, i sure miss those days.

not. In case I am being too subtle.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 07:51 AM   #117
usptact
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
I'm sure you will be able to buy a converter so your MacBook takes power from that car battery. Bit heavy to carry around though.
Typical apple elitist answer. Apple programmed you so that you lost all healthy reasoning.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 09:18 AM   #118
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For those griping about the price, just go try to buy a battery from HP these days. Enjoy!
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 11:20 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by swingerofbirch View Post
The thing about the battery reaching 1,000 charges before getting to 80% capacity was not true for my 2010 13" MBP. Mine stayed close to 90% at 1,300 cycles, and then it just stopped working one day. It went from 90% to 0%. Apple wouldn't replace it under warranty, and my repair cost $179 because of not having an Apple Store nearby and going through an AASP. I understand their policy and I did put the computer through its paces, but I'm not sure they're right with their estimate that it should still be at 80% after a 1,000 cycles.
Ok, yes, it does suck that your battery just up and died, but how can you be "not sure they're right with their estimate that it should still be at 80% after a 1,000 cycles"? You stated yourself that yours was still near 90% after 1,300 cycles. That sounds *better* than their estimate.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 11:42 AM   #120
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Typical apple elitist answer. Apple programmed you so that you lost all healthy reasoning.
Hey, Death-T is the one why tried to equivocate a *car battery* with the battery from a MacBook Pro. If he really thinks they're that equivalent, building an adapter cable (as gnasher suggested) *is* entirely reasonable.

IOW, gnasher isn't the one who had "lost all healthy reasoning".
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:15 PM   #121
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All this talk on the battery seems intimidating since you're basically spending 2K+ on a laptop. I'm thinking about getting the Retina Pro but does anyone think its not worth it because of this?

I use my laptop often, I would say half on battery, half always charged. If I do get one, I will be using it for my classes and programming.

Will this set me back or will I be fine?

Thanks everyone
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:19 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
No, the battery is glued not fused... They can just peel it off and then glue a new one on. The reason ifixit can't do that is cause they'd risk damaging the battery. But if Apple is changing your battery, it's because the battery is already deemed defective or in need of replacement, so damaging it further isn't a concern anymore.
Disagree. Damage a Li-Ion battery and you're probably in hospital. If they vent, it's normally a very rapidly burning fire, and as they heat up, the other cells in the battery explode.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:26 PM   #123
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Disagree. Damage a Li-Ion battery and you're probably in hospital. If they vent, it's normally a very rapidly burning fire, and as they heat up, the other cells in the battery explode.
Indeed. Remember that iPhone that burst into flames on an aeroplane in Australia? The cause was that the battery had been punctured by a rogue screw in the case caused by a cowboy repairer
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:53 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by skier777 View Post
On Dell's $500 Latitude computers to upgrade the battery to a 97wh version costs $80. A spare 60wh battery costs $150 and a spare 97wh costs $180.

Given that Apple's batteries are (in my experience) ten times better than Dell's that price seems to be reasonable.
Sony has some extended batteries that sell for $250, as another datapoint.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 05:21 PM   #125
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It makes me wonder if today's processors are really more energy efficient. The preunibody 2008 Macbook Pro's battery had a footprint smaller than a CD case and still gave 4-5 hours. Now we see laptops having half the case with battery, yet they give a similar runtime.
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