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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:26 PM   #251
cuestakid
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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...nclick_check=1


say a prayer for him tonight...
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 12:58 AM   #252
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Your link doesn't seem to work, but I googled the Coyotes and a story about Bob Francis came up. That's sad.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 03:02 PM   #253
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Behold, the awesomeness that is the new 3rd jersey of the Toronto Marlies:



A throwback to the Toronto Marlboros. I love the 80's styles.

I'm considering buying one, but I think I'll wait until the lockout is over....I don't want to give any NHL team any of my money until things are settled.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:47 PM   #254
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It's pathetic that I saw "Street Hockey" on CBC - the national championship! - and got so incredibly excited.

It actually was pretty entertaining - I caught most of the 2nd half (yeah, there's only 2 halves - or not sure if they called them periods). I found it hilarious that goalies wear full pads though, haha.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 02:10 PM   #255
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It's pathetic that I saw "Street Hockey" on CBC - the national championship! - and got so incredibly excited.

It actually was pretty entertaining - I caught most of the 2nd half (yeah, there's only 2 halves - or not sure if they called them periods). I found it hilarious that goalies wear full pads though, haha.
hey plastic pucks can hurt as well..
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 02:17 PM   #256
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hey plastic pucks can hurt as well..
Balls, not pucks.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 02:30 PM   #257
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Balls, not pucks.
even more so.
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:02 PM   #258
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Are you ready for some hockey?!?!?

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The Kontinental Hockey League has reached an agreement with the US sports TV channel ESPN to broadcast games in the 2012/2013 KHL Championship. The games will be shown on the ESPN3 channel in the United States, Territories of the United States, and also in Great Britain.

ESPN3 reaches 73 million American households and devotes most of its output to live broadcasts of events, including college football, college basketball, the NBA, MLB, ICC (International Cricket Council) competitions and qualifying matches of FIFA tournaments.

During the first ten days of October, the channel will broadcast five KHL games. The planned schedule includes:
Dynamo Moscow vs Ak Bars on Oct. 3rd;
Lev vs SKA on Oct. 6th;
Slovan vs Dynamo Moscow on Oct. 7th;
CSKA vs SKA on Oct. 8th;
Lev vs Dynamo Moscow on Oct. 9th.
http://en.khl.ru/news/2012/10/2/24756.html

I'll be checking it out. Why the hell not?
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Old Oct 2, 2012, 04:22 PM   #259
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Are you ready for some hockey?!?!?



http://en.khl.ru/news/2012/10/2/24756.html

I'll be checking it out. Why the hell not?
Better than nothing.

Big Z signed with a KHL team in Prague today too, so it will be nice to be able to watch him and some of the other guys.

I saw some highlights on Youtube of a game last week with Ovechkin's team playing Kovalchuk's... good stuff.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 06:39 AM   #260
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This is ridiculous. Two lockouts in how many years. The league doesnt care about the fact that popularity is, well was now, at an all time high, and the league was become more and more valuable every day. Its so dumb that they worked so hard since the last lockout, to get the game to where it is today, only to flush it down the tubes. At least I get to see my Heat do some damage in the NBA soon.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 06:53 AM   #261
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I for one am glad that Bettman has the balls to stand up again to the players. An owner certainly has the right to dictate what he pays his employees, right or wrong. The lockout was very good for the game 9 years ago and will be good for the game again. Fans will come back, just like they did this time.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 07:58 AM   #262
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I for one am glad that Bettman has the balls to stand up again to the players. An owner certainly has the right to dictate what he pays his employees, right or wrong. The lockout was very good for the game 9 years ago and will be good for the game again. Fans will come back, just like they did this time.
Gee- maybe the players should just play for free.

Hell no- I stand with the players.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 08:03 AM   #263
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Half a million dollars as a starting salary and you think that approaches free?
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 08:29 AM   #264
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Half a million dollars as a starting salary and you think that approaches free?
You think that they just wake-up one morning with that level of skill??

Pul-ease.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 08:39 AM   #265
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Half a million dollars as a starting salary and you think that approaches free?
It's about what's fair. People go to watch hockey, not owners haggle on how much not to pay the players. If the owners disappeared tomorrow, you can bet the players would find a way to organize a league pretty fast, and with a lot of support from the public.

No owner of any business would tell his employees to take a 14% pay cut and expect them to put up with it.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 08:58 AM   #266
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If the players would start their own league, I'd bet it would be bankrupt within two years. There is some value to being an owner and most of them worked hard to make their money. I guess 500,000 is fair for a start, but when you said free, that was way off.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 11:19 AM   #267
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If the players would start their own league, I'd bet it would be bankrupt within two years. There is some value to being an owner and most of them worked hard to make their money. I guess 500,000 is fair for a start, but when you said free, that was way off.
I don't think that asking anyone to take a 14% cut is acceptable.

And the players could certainly find someone with the expertise to run a league.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 12:51 PM   #268
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I for one am glad that Bettman has the balls to stand up again to the players. An owner certainly has the right to dictate what he pays his employees, right or wrong. The lockout was very good for the game 9 years ago and will be good for the game again. Fans will come back, just like they did this time.
They can't just keep taking advantage of fans and expect them to bend over and come back. The lockout killed the NHL the last time.. it took them nearly a decade to recover. Doesn't sound like very good business to go through that again.

And an owner has no right to sign a legally-binding contract and then decide later on that they don't want to honor that contract and reduce it by 10-20%. That's ********. Players have to honor contracts all the time when they don't necessarily want to, when they are traded even if they don't want to move, etc. Owners should have to also.

The players ARE the product here. Without the players, there are no games played, there are no fans in the arena, and there are no fans buying merchandise. The owners make ALL of their money because of the players playing. Expecting them to take 43% of revenue sharing when they have been getting 57% (and also trying to make the initial 100% smaller) is ********.

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Half a million dollars as a starting salary and you think that approaches free?
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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
It's about what's fair. People go to watch hockey, not owners haggle on how much not to pay the players. If the owners disappeared tomorrow, you can bet the players would find a way to organize a league pretty fast, and with a lot of support from the public.

No owner of any business would tell his employees to take a 14% pay cut and expect them to put up with it.
Taking 14% out of the 57% of the revenue share they currently get is actually nearly a 25% pay cut.

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If the players would start their own league, I'd bet it would be bankrupt within two years. There is some value to being an owner and most of them worked hard to make their money. I guess 500,000 is fair for a start, but when you said free, that was way off.
If the players started a league, people would go to watch, because they are there to watch the players. I don't go to the Boston Garden to see Jeremy Jacobs, I go to see Patrice Bergeron, Milan Lucic, and the rest of the team.

This whole thing is about billionaire owners trying to get an even bigger piece of the pie than they already get, and it's ridiculous. They are so ignorant to the people they are actually hurting with this lockout it's not even funny.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 01:11 PM   #269
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Taking 14% out of the 57% of the revenue share they currently get is actually nearly a 25% pay cut.
Of course, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out.

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If the players started a league, people would go to watch, because they are there to watch the players. I don't go to the Boston Garden to see Jeremy Jacobs, I go to see Patrice Bergeron, Milan Lucic, and the rest of the team.
Yep- I sure don't go to watch some douche in a suit sit around and do nothing but plot his next move to take hockey for all the cash he can.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 01:37 PM   #270
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My employer has the right to terminate my agreement whenever they want. And the owners have the right to do the same when the bargaining agreement is up.

Besides, if the owners have to pay the players more money, they need more revenue, and ticket prices go up.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 01:55 PM   #271
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My employer has the right to terminate my agreement whenever they want. And the owners have the right to do the same when the bargaining agreement is up.
NHL contracts can do that too. A team can release or waive a player whenever they want. That's not the point of this.

They are trying to reduce the value of the contract without changing any other terms. That's crazy.

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Besides, if the owners have to pay the players more money, they need more revenue, and ticket prices go up.
Obviously. But ticket prices have done nothing but go up since the last lockout. League revenue has increased from $2 to over $3 billion dollars annually since the lockout.

Revenue has gone way up yet the owners want the players (who brought in the revenue!) to take a 25% pay cut. That's insane.


For example, if you were a salesman, and over a 6 month period you increased your sales and revenues by 50%, and then your employer asked you to take a 25% cut in salary, how would you react?
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 02:36 PM   #272
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NHL contracts can do that too. A team can release or waive a player whenever they want. That's not the point of this.

They are trying to reduce the value of the contract without changing any other terms. That's crazy.



Obviously. But ticket prices have done nothing but go up since the last lockout. League revenue has increased from $2 to over $3 billion dollars annually since the lockout.

Revenue has gone way up yet the owners want the players (who brought in the revenue!) to take a 25% pay cut. That's insane.


For example, if you were a salesman, and over a 6 month period you increased your sales and revenues by 50%, and then your employer asked you to take a 25% cut in salary, how would you react?
I, for one, would be pissed. There is no parallel universe where this is even remotely OK.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:28 PM   #273
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My employer has the right to terminate my agreement whenever they want. And the owners have the right to do the same when the bargaining agreement is up.
No they don't. Those contracts are legally binding. It doesn't matter that the CBA has expired. They can't just wash their hands of them. Those contracts aren't cancelled just because the CBA has expired. Once a new CBA is agreed on, those contracts will continue.

You can't compare your employment agreement with NHLers' contracts. If you are let go tomorrow, maybe you'll get some severance pay, or maybe you won't. Maybe you'll just get paid for the work you did up to the day you were let go. NHL players' contracts are guaranteed. If a team wants to "fire" a player, they still have to honor the rest of the contract or buy them out.

The fact that the owners were throwing around hundreds of millions of dollars in new, long term contracts just before the lockout started just reeks of bad faith on their part. It's just bad business. Don't give two players over $200 million and then complain that you have no money.

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Besides, if the owners have to pay the players more money, they need more revenue, and ticket prices go up.
Most teams have plenty of revenue. And ticket prices have been going up and up and up since the last lockout (even though Bettman said they wouldn't). Yes, there are a handful of teams that aren't making much, if any, money (Columbus, Dallas, Florida, etc). Those teams should be forced to move or fold. If the NHL wants to keep those teams around, they need to try to do a better job of emulating the NFL's revenue sharing structure. That league can afford to keep teams in places like Green Bay and Buffalo because of their revenue sharing.

I'm pretty sick of both sides of this fight. I do have more sympathy for the players because they are the engine that drives the business. As others have said, fans don't pay to watch a team because it's owned by some really really rich guy or corporation. The owners are more in the wrong in this fight than the players.

The owners need the players and the players need the owners. Perhaps if they used that as a starting point, they could figure out a solution.

The way things are going, we'll have to wait for quite a while before either sides breaks.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:40 PM   #274
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Exhausting.

The point is that they are both wrong. They are involved in something known as a monopoly. Hockey (and all pro sports) is one, if not the only, legal monopoly outside of government functions like the USPS. The rules of monopolies don't apply in the real world so the analogies are mostly going to be wrong.

The fact is that we have whiny billionaires arguing with whiny millionaires. Personally, I hope the entire season is cancelled so that they can come to grips with reality. I lose nothing because you know what? They want their money and will be back.

Nothing will happen until the players make a significant move. And, since the players association is fracturing, it will definitely happen (though I don't think it will be soon). Not everyone gets to go play in a foreign league somewhere. So there are a lot of guys thinking -- hey, why am I not playing hockey? Maybe 20% less isn't that bad... I only have 2 years left and it certainly is better than $0. Or, it's my first year, I just need to not lose my skills --

Starting a new league with facilities, branding, scheduling, travel, etc. is simply too much of a barrier to entry. We cannot even comprehend the logistics. It won't happen. Just as if the owners try to start a scab league -- won't happen.

In the meantime, I'm watching ESPN3 -- I hope the ad revenue goes through the roof and these European players no longer have to look like skating billboards. (Thanks Surely for the tip)
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:59 PM   #275
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Exhausting.

The point is that they are both wrong. They are involved in something known as a monopoly. Hockey (and all pro sports) is one, if not the only, legal monopoly outside of government functions like the USPS. The rules of monopolies don't apply in the real world so the analogies are mostly going to be wrong.

The fact is that we have whiny billionaires arguing with whiny millionaires. Personally, I hope the entire season is cancelled so that they can come to grips with reality. I lose nothing because you know what? They want their money and will be back.

Nothing will happen until the players make a significant move. And, since the players association is fracturing, it will definitely happen (though I don't think it will be soon). Not everyone gets to go play in a foreign league somewhere. So there are a lot of guys thinking -- hey, why am I not playing hockey? Maybe 20% less isn't that bad... I only have 2 years left and it certainly is better than $0. Or, it's my first year, I just need to not lose my skills --

Starting a new league with facilities, branding, scheduling, travel, etc. is simply too much of a barrier to entry. We cannot even comprehend the logistics. It won't happen. Just as if the owners try to start a scab league -- won't happen.

In the meantime, I'm watching ESPN3 -- I hope the ad revenue goes through the roof and these European players no longer have to look like skating billboards. (Thanks Surely for the tip)
Why do you insist it's the players who should be giving in? It's absolutely wrong for them to do so. They did it last time. If they give in again, how long do you think it will be before the owners pull this crap again?
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