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Old Nov 5, 2002, 09:59 PM   #1
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Final Roundup... iBooks and Powerbooks

The time draws near...

Various news sources expect iBook updates to take place on November 6th. CNet, PowerPage, ThinkSecret and others have posted similar specs of the upcoming iBooks, with further proof provided by Apple themselves on price drops of the iBook to $999. The only dissent comes from YourDailyMac.com, who hint at a surprise iBook 32MB Video Ram upgrade.

Specs and rumors about Powerbook updates are notably absent, however, with only PowerPage skirting the issue with talk of Powerbook MWSF 2003 updates. Unofficial specs have floated around... and As The AppleTurns even claims to be the only rumor site to predict Superdrives with the Powerbook, despite our claims of a similar update. Of interest... Powerbook supplies are low, but not at zero at this time. But if Powerbooks are to be delayed, why was did Apple's site also "]reflect a $200 drop in Powerbook prices as well?
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:01 PM   #2
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Interesting, I wonder what will happen?
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:09 PM   #3
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Everything looks good. A nice clincher would be 32 MB VRAM on the iBooks and (this one we won't get for sure though) the Radeon 9000 *I think the one after 7500 is 9000 but it may be some other 9xxxx* 64MB VRAM for a more longterm laptop.

Go apple, I'll be checking my Sidekick during school tomorrow for the awesome news.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:12 PM   #4
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I can't wait to see what will be unveiled for the iBooks, my only hope is that the possible $999 model will at least sport a cdr drive. As far as the powerbooks go, who the hell does as the apple turns think they are??????bastards. The powerbooks are out of my range, but I hope you guys get what you want in them.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by medea
I can't wait to see what will be unveiled for the iBooks, my only hope is that the possible $999 model will at least sport a cdr drive.
I think the iBook specs are pretty much a given... (expect the vram issue)

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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:21 PM   #6
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thanks for your good wishes medea. they really need the radeon 9000 w/ 64 MB on the PB.. that's my biggest wish, honestly... i wouldn't mind 933 MHz or 1 GHz... they are both substantially faster, esp if they go to the 2MB L3... but i don't think they will. all i really want is that radeon 9000. and 5400 rpm on all HDDs, though i am getting the 60 GB anyways, so i already got that part down.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:28 PM   #7
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Supplies are low!

Well the good thing about computers is just because supplies are LOW, that doesn't make something a "get it now" collectors item.

I wonder what the new TiBooks will bring. The longer I wait, the more I dream. HOpe Steve Jobs is cooking up the dream machine.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:32 PM   #8
MDiddy
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I want a PowerBook

I think that there will be a noticable differenc ein application performance with new Powerbooks if the architecture is similar to the new Power Macs....I've used both the old Dual 1GHz, and the new 1GHz, and 1.25GHz duellys, and the difference in Jaguar is really noticable. I don't know if its the DDR RAM, extra L3 cache or what. The machiens boots faster, and the application performace is snappier.

Getting back to topic;

If an 867MHz PowerBook debuts at $2299, i may just go for an old 800MHz model. Surely they'll drop to $2099 or $1999. Unless I see a SuperDrive and the Radeon 9000 64MB. If not, there's no compelling reason
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:36 PM   #9
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When will we see a bigger bus on the consumer line? Would a G3 be to close in performance to a Powerbook? Did the G3 powerbook get past a 100mhz bus?
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:43 PM   #10
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Man. i havent been really excited at an Apple release in a VERY long time.

I mean, I was excited about XServe, but on a strictly professional level.. "oh wow, that'll help my clients!"

But on a personal level, it's just this feeling of.... 'meh' (to quote Lisa Simpson)

Software offerings are alright... but...

The expos have been utter garbage! NOTHING had made me raise an eyebrow in so long! The new iMac is cool and all, definitely, but it doesn't cut it as a pro machine at all. I love my iBook but MAN it is just SLUGGO under Jaguar.

And just ALL this 'drama' with speed! It USED to be the Megahertz Myth, but guess what - Intel is so far ahead that it's managed to COUNTERACT the Myth. It's funny because now AMD gets to use the Megahertz Myth - and it holds true for them, since a PC I have with an Athlon XP 2400+ (@2.0 GHz) smokes a 2.8GHz P4! But my 867 MHz G4 is just no match for either, especially under Jag. The AMD kills it using almost any Photoshop filter. I think they just need to stop kidding themselves and us, drop Moto (like the rest of the world is doing! look around!!!), and roll with IBM. Man, I think if anyone still says that a G4 can kill a P4 or an AMD actually needs to sit in front of a well-built PC and try it for themselves.

I love Apple and I'm not about to abandon the platform, but they are capable of SO much MORE! WHAT is keeping them tied to Moto? I mean, SOMEthing has to be...

Apple: "Moto, you're out of the Trinity. IBM's chips can destroy yours without even being plugged into a motherboard."
Moto: "Wait... one more thing..."
Apple: "Don't patronize us."
Moto: "Okay okay okay, hold on... (rummages through brown paper bag) We've got this chip that you can change the speed through messing with the firmware! We can give you a ton of these chips and you can increment the speed every few months! What a money saver!"
Apple: "What's the ceiling?"
Moto: "Well, hmmm, about 900MHz... it was designed for the embedded market..."
Apple: "Oh Moto... (shakes head condescendingly)..."
Moto: "Two cents each though!"
Apple: "In that case, give us ONE MILLION."

I mean, the second a family of processors is targeted at the EMBEDDED market, shouldn't you think about swithcing vendors? Hell even if it was obscenely fast - it's all about perception. I look at a G4 and think "Wow, that's the same processor in my cable box. And ****, my CABLE box lags and crashes once in a while..."

I mean, Intel has a mobile chip, AMD will soon. Right now they run at 400MHz. Granted that's 'only' megahertz, but you know, I have an iBook that runs at 500MHz....

Okay I'm done. That was actually my first really big rant about this stuff so give me a break! =D

*justin
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:51 PM   #11
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An iBook for me?

So I'm considering getting an iBook. But my first Mac is this G4 800 Mhz flat panel iMac. Obviously the G3 is going to be slower. But how much slower? My intent is to do some light programming in Cocoa (prob not OpenGL, just Aqua GUI apps), most likely Macromedia Flash, and of course your standard web browsing, iTunes type stuff. I don't have a concern that web browsing and iTunes won't work. My concern would be more on the side of Cocoa and Flash. Is the 700 Mhz G3 sufficient? I can throw in some RAM to boost 'er up but it'll probably only got up to the 128 that comes with it with another 512 MB that I'll put in myself (non-apple memory being cheaper and all). I'm gonna upgrade it to have a DVD drive in it but I don't really care about burning CD's on the go. I dig the 12.1 inch screen because it's small. I used my friends powerbook (15.2" screen) and disliked it only because of the screen size. I refuse to buy a laptop whose screen is larger than my desktop... Anyhow... I'm eagerly awaiting Apples update. I'm selling a ton of stuff on eBay to afford this laptop and seeing the price go down would be a big help... that and I can get my educational discout too.

Thanks.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:52 PM   #12
Upright Joe
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My feature priorities

On laptops, I'm not sure the processor speed should be most people's top priority.

From my experiences with my Wintel laptop, I'd have to say 5400 RPM drives would be a bigger performance boost than anything given the type of tasks I use my computer for. I have a PIII 1.2 GHz and I never see the processor utilization get above 30% even when my laptop is bogged down to a total crawl.

I will definitely have to BTO the 60 gig 5400 RPM drive when I finally buy a PowerBook. Hopefully, the battery drain isn't too much higher on it.

After reading the comparison between the Radeon 9000 and the 7500 on Tom's Hardware, I don't see where it would be a significant benefit. Aside from the slight power advantage, why is everybody wanting them so badly?

Obviously, the SuperDrive would be the killer selling point. I'm torn as to whether or not I'll jump on this revision if it doesn't have one. (assuming of course we're seeing a revision)
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 10:56 PM   #13
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Has anyone noticed the $360 savings if you buy a powerbook through the apple developer connection? This may futher show that apple is trying to get rid of inventory before they release a new powerbook.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 11:14 PM   #14
Fins160
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Powerbook delays

I just purchased a powerbook 800 Ultimate config, and they said they cannot ship until mid december because of backorders on the 60gig HD. I am so disappointed!!! But it is strange that supplies are low given the price drop.
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 11:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by medea
I can't wait to see what will be unveiled for the iBooks, my only hope is that the possible $999 model will at least sport a cdr drive. As far as the powerbooks go, who the hell does as the apple turns think they are??????bastards. The powerbooks are out of my range, but I hope you guys get what you want in them.
As I said before, in another thread, I really think they are being sarcastic. They make fun of apple things, and silly ramblings of what is going on--I havn't read in awhile, but they use to be quite funny and a pick-me-up on slow work days.

I think they were trying to put out the idea that very few people think that the powerbook will get superdrives, they even had their newborn girl (6 and a half year old) be the person to predict it.

Give these people a break, they try to add alittle humor to the apple world--which is always needed in any world.

- bert
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Old Nov 5, 2002, 11:54 PM   #16
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There will be new PowerBooks

Okay, let me settle the controversy. There WILL be new PowerBooks this week. The reason I feel confident in saying this is that Iím not that lucky. Lucky? Well, last Friday I agreed that Apple would soon introduce 933 MHz and 800 MHz speed bumps to the PowerBook line. However, I was somewhat hopeful that there would be NO upgrades this year because this past May I purchased a new 800 MHz PowerBook and frankly it would be really nice to exit year 2002 still owning the fastest PowerBook available. But, I donít see that happening (as I said Iím not that lucky). In any case, if there is NOT a new PowerBook this year then I suspect that the resale value on my 800 MHz unit will go up by 10 to 20 percent. Consider this, the 800 MHz PowerBook will forever be the fastest notebook that will boot into OS 9, it will retain all the speed advantages that OS 9 offers, all the software compatibility, and it will still run OS X and Quartz Extreme very nicely. It should be a win-win for all of the existing PowerBook DVI owners. In fact, if new PowerBooks arenít introduced then this yearís DVI PowerBooks will likely become THE classic PowerBook of all time.

So DO expect to see new PowerBooks this week, because Iím just not that lucky. ;-)
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 12:04 AM   #17
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Re: I want a PowerBook

Quote:
Originally posted by MDiddy
I think that there will be a noticable differenc ein application performance with new Powerbooks if the architecture is similar to the new Power Macs....I've used both the old Dual 1GHz, and the new 1GHz, and 1.25GHz duellys, and the difference in Jaguar is really noticable. I don't know if its the DDR RAM, extra L3 cache or what. The machiens boots faster, and the application performace is snappier.

Getting back to topic;

If an 867MHz PowerBook debuts at $2299, i may just go for an old 800MHz model. Surely they'll drop to $2099 or $1999. Unless I see a SuperDrive and the Radeon 9000 64MB. If not, there's no compelling reason
That's strange because barefeats said that the new dual gig is not really any faster then the old dual gig.
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 12:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
originally posted by fpnc
So DO expect to see new PowerBooks this week, because Iím just not that lucky. ;-)


lol. it's still good for you though, either way. you have to bite the bullet. in all honesty, the biggest problem i have with the current powerbooks is the 32 MB DDR VRAM. i have a PIII 933 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HDD, 24xCDR/12xDVD, 64 MB DDR GF3Ti200... so a fully loaded powerbook (the only kind i would get) would be better than what i have now in every way except VRAM, and i think that having 64 MB really does make a difference. It's good news that the iBooks are going up to 32 MB VRAM though... that casts a good light on the possibility of 64 on the PBs. i would be ok with the radeon 7500, but i really want the 64 MB to come to it.
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 12:35 AM   #19
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Re: There will be new PowerBooks

Quote:
Originally posted by fpnc
Okay, let me settle the controversy. There WILL be new PowerBooks this week. The reason I feel confident in saying this is that Iím not that lucky. Lucky? Well, last Friday I agreed that Apple would soon introduce 933 MHz and 800 MHz speed bumps to the PowerBook line. However, I was somewhat hopeful that there would be NO upgrades this year because this past May I purchased a new 800 MHz PowerBook and frankly it would be really nice to exit year 2002 still owning the fastest PowerBook available. But, I donít see that happening (as I said Iím not that lucky). In any case, if there is NOT a new PowerBook this year then I suspect that the resale value on my 800 MHz unit will go up by 10 to 20 percent. Consider this, the 800 MHz PowerBook will forever be the fastest notebook that will boot into OS 9, it will retain all the speed advantages that OS 9 offers, all the software compatibility, and it will still run OS X and Quartz Extreme very nicely. It should be a win-win for all of the existing PowerBook DVI owners. In fact, if new PowerBooks arenít introduced then this yearís DVI PowerBooks will likely become THE classic PowerBook of all time.

So DO expect to see new PowerBooks this week, because Iím just not that lucky. ;-)
Huh. On my new dual gig OS 9 appears to run noticeably faster UNDER classic than it does natively. Seriously. Classic launches in 12 seconds or less. If apple could just get the hardware (scanners, etc.) to work through classic, there would be no reason to boot in OS9. On newer machines anyway.
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 12:49 AM   #20
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I just have a question about the 7500 vs the 9000 -

if cards are upgradeabe in a tower, then would it be possible to stick a 9000 in a Tibook, regardles of whether or not it came with that? Didn't someone, i think it was sparkeytone, say that they were pin compatible? So agai, what I want to know is, why can't I just install a 9000 in a Tibook that came with a 7500.
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 01:06 AM   #21
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Well, mostly because as I understand it, laptop GPUs are soldered to the mothernoard. They are not swappable. In a tower, the GPU takes up a card slot (4XAGP?) and can be removed and replaced. The only option I've seen for a sort-of upgrade for a laptop's VRAM is through an add-on PCMCIA card I saw. It only works for monitors connected externally through said card though, and not with the built-in display. Also, since the iBook lacks a PCMCIA slot, it would be moot on those.

I wish that you could upgrade the laptop's GPU, because then I wouldn't need to replace my Pismo.

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Old Nov 6, 2002, 01:24 AM   #22
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Unhappy

I have been told that if you do not get an order in for new high end product IMMEDIATELY you should not expect it before Christmas.

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Old Nov 6, 2002, 01:47 AM   #23
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a note about laptop GPUs... if you are really cocky, and you know about pin and interface compatibility, you can switch them out. you have to clip and clean out the old chip and solder the new one on (this voids any semblance of a warranty you may have). that done, there maye still be interface issues, but it certainly works for some things. like you can take out your GF2Go on a dell, and put in the GF4Go... at least i have read about people doing it... but don't jerk the iron when you are soldering, lol.

i think the problem i would see in this is RAM interfaces. the 9000 i think supports a 128 bit RAM interface where the 7500 is on a 64 bit RAM interface... i could be way off though. in any case, the 900 should be backward compatible as far as RAM, so if you can get your hands one a chip (not easy to do).. might try it.
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 02:01 AM   #24
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Don't worry...

....because I promise you I'll be the first one to order a new powerbook on their site....I've been waiting for the PB to be upgraded for months!
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Old Nov 6, 2002, 02:20 AM   #25
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Forget the CPU

I think you guys need to chill out a bit with the specs. It's really the software that's attracting me to the Macs, not necessarily hardware.

Here's why I'm going to buy my first mac after these price adjustments:

1. Performance is adequate. I use a browser, word processor, compiler, terminal client, MP3 software, DVD software, digital camera software. I don't need to crack DES on this machine.

2. The OS is beautiful. Have you used PCs for any length of time? Mac OS X leaves them for dead. And fsck me dead - don't even MENTION what RH looks like. The fonts and look-n-feel is an abomination in comparison. I've had Linux on desktops since 1996, and it has come a long way - and still has a long way to go.

3. Portability. It's a laptop, and it's durable, and has decent battery life, and it's compact. Nice!

4. Hardware compatibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the iBook's soundcard will correctly run under OS X, yes? Try this under Linux. The alsa drivers I compiled lock the laptop on the Dell Inspiron 4100 I use.

5. Screen size. Jesus Christ, can you see that there is no point upgrading to a 13" or 14" screen if the res remains at 1024x768? If the res remains there, a 12.1" screen is FINE. Furthermore, it's portable. If the screen goes up, I want the res going up too. The 14" iBook is a waste of money in this respect.

6. A gripe actually. An iBook should be able to drive an external monitor up to 2048xblah. No excuses here, IMHO.

7. DVD/CD-R. I think this is a fine combo. What else would I want to do? Why do I want to burn DVDs on a laptop again? I sure as hell want to cut CDRs though, and I'll probably want to watch the odd movie too.

8. The power of Unix and the interface of a Mac. To me, this is a marriage made in heaven, marketing hype aside. Sure I can add cygwin to a Windoze machine, but it AIN'T THE SAME. To the Mac guy at the store in North Sydney: bone up on Unix. I asked this guy where the terminal app was, and he's like "Oh, I think that's over here, and I think it's called Terminal". DUDE!! A ********* of people will be buying this because of the Unix capabilities. You are a poor salesmen, and people like you will be Apple's undoing.

9. I can't think of any 9. right now

L8r,

Luke.
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