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Old Jun 30, 2012, 03:41 PM   #26
mic j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrettL1979 View Post
I'm still a bit confused by strict vs. loose anamorphic. It sounds like strict is the best option, but the presets all include loose instead?? What is the advantage of using loose?
I pulled this from the HB Wiki on Anamorphic:

"There are some other minor differences in the output of loose versus strict, but they are nerdy. Only the curious and sleepless need bother reading about them in the ITU appendix."

Basically loose always gives a size divisible by 16 where strict uses actual size dictated by the dvd. That's why he comments above the there is at most a 2 pixel width difference between strict and loose.

Additional thought: I think things like this are why people are overwhelmed by HB and drift toward other encoders (even though they use the same encoding engine as HB). HB is designed to give you control over every aspect of transcoding. But that total control is only needed by a few, the 1% so to say. The other 99% of us will do just as well with selecting our preset, maybe adjust subtitle selections and hit run.
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Last edited by mic j; Jun 30, 2012 at 03:46 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old Jun 30, 2012, 03:49 PM   #27
GarrettL1979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
I pulled this from the HB Wiki on Anamorphic:

"There are some other minor differences in the output of loose versus strict, but they are nerdy. Only the curious and sleepless need bother reading about them in the ITU appendix."

Basically loose always gives a size divisible by 16 where strict uses actual size dictated by the dvd. That's why he comments above the there is at most a 2 pixel width difference between strict and loose.
So why would one choose loose? Is it faster?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post

Additional thought: I think things like this are why people are overwhelmed by HB and drift toward other encoders (even though they use the same encoding engine as HB). HB is designed to give you control over every aspect of transcoding. But that total control is only needed by a few, the 1% so to say. The other 99% of us will do just as well with selecting our preset, maybe adjust subtitle selections and hit run.
Definitely agree.
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Old Jun 30, 2012, 03:53 PM   #28
mic j
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Originally Posted by GarrettL1979 View Post
So why would one choose loose? Is it faster?
I don't think so or if it is, it is minor. I just got done comparing the same movie encoded with my aTV3 preset (which uses strict) and the new HB preset. My setting was 5m faster with a 2h40m encode. An who really know what caused that? Could be do to me using the computer while encoding, different decomb setting, different anamorphic setting. Probably is not really significant. But hopefully, Dynaflash will answer your question from a developers perspective and not a user like me.

You might find this link informative: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=453387
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Last edited by mic j; Jun 30, 2012 at 03:57 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old Jun 30, 2012, 04:04 PM   #29
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I could be totally wrong, but I think it has to do with the fact that during encoding and decoding the video image is split up into 16x16 pixel macroblocks, hence the loose setting which is divisable by 16 is less wasteful and easier for some hardware decoders to handle.
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Old Jun 30, 2012, 04:28 PM   #30
mic j
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I could be totally wrong, but I think it has to do with the fact that during encoding and decoding the video image is split up into 16x16 pixel macroblocks, hence the loose setting which is divisable by 16 is less wasteful and easier for some hardware decoders to handle.
That would tend to support what they stated in the link I provided. I think they also noted in that link that that used to be more of a problem than it is now. Also, that would jive with Dynaflash saying that loose works 99% of the time while strict works 100% of the time (but possibly at a processing cost).
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Old Jul 1, 2012, 02:23 PM   #31
Cobra611
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Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Well, that makes things a little more complicated but not much.
Handbrake
Preset: High Profile
Video Tab
Web Optimize: checked
Picture Settings
Size Tab: Anamorphic: Strict
Filters Tab: Decomb: Default (everything else: off)
Subtitles Tab
Track: Foreign Audio Search (if there are forced Subtitles or aren't sure); Forced Only: checked
Burn In: checked

Couple of notes: 1) if it's a foreign film with a subtitle track that you want burned in: Track: English Bitmap 2) if you want soft subtitles that's a whole other process (search threads by me for how I do them) 3) is should automatically select and format your audio tracks.
I appreciate all the assistance, thank you!! I set up "The Shawshank Redemption" Blu Ray at about 1am this morning. As of right now (2:20pm EST) it's at about 83% complete. Without reading your post I set it to run with Anamorphic on LOOSE and I had the Large box checked and not Web Optimized. I hope that is the reason why it's taking so long.
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Old Jul 1, 2012, 02:32 PM   #32
mic j
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Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
I appreciate all the assistance, thank you!! I set up "The Shawshank Redemption" Blu Ray at about 1am this morning. As of right now (2:20pm EST) it's at about 83% complete. Without reading your post I set it to run with Anamorphic on LOOSE and I had the Large box checked and not Web Optimized. I hope that is the reason why it's taking so long.
No, that's not the reason it's taking that long. It just takes that long with the High Profile (which is the basis for the aTV3 preset). That's the price you pay for excellent quality and minimal file size. You always have to pay a price somewhere, quality or speed. It is also highly depended on CPU capability...more cores is faster. I always did one each night, usually took me 11-12 hours for a BR. I have had it go 20+ hours for some long, grainy movies.
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Old Jul 1, 2012, 05:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
I appreciate all the assistance, thank you!! I set up "The Shawshank Redemption" Blu Ray at about 1am this morning. As of right now (2:20pm EST) it's at about 83% complete. Without reading your post I set it to run with Anamorphic on LOOSE and I had the Large box checked and not Web Optimized. I hope that is the reason why it's taking so long.
I run about 2 - 3 hours for an average blu-ray on my 3.33 6 core MP. Runs about double that on a Mac mini server (2.0 quad). I'm using RF = 18 instead of the default 20, so I'm a little slower than normal.
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Old Jul 1, 2012, 06:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
I appreciate all the assistance, thank you!! I set up "The Shawshank Redemption" Blu Ray at about 1am this morning. As of right now (2:20pm EST) it's at about 83% complete. Without reading your post I set it to run with Anamorphic on LOOSE and I had the Large box checked and not Web Optimized. I hope that is the reason why it's taking so long.
No ,its not, its because it is a very long and fairly grainy source. Loose and Strict have virtually no encoding speed difference. Loose came about because certain decoders required 16 x 16 macroblocks to play back anamorphic content so HB would round the scale to the nearest 16 pixels. So strict wouldn't work for those decoders however was spot on the original pixel aspect ratio. Originally Loose had no Modulus adjustment, it was hardcoded at 16.

Loose mod 2 is pretty much the same as strict. The error I am speaking of is a bug in HB and how it calculates Loose with certain cropping, which can error by a couple pixels from the strict source. Thats about it. Strict never errors that I know of. Once that small bug is fixed Strict will probably go away as it will be redundant (loose mod 2).
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Old Jul 1, 2012, 08:12 PM   #35
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Again, thanks for all the input. It certainly helps with the learning process. I suppose my goals are similar to most...and that is excellent quality contained in smaller file. I started this project about 8 days ago by purchasing an LG Blu Ray drive and installed in my HP desktop. Two days later, I went back to Best Buy and got a 3 TB hard drive. First I was using Aimersoft, and even though it did both processes, the picture quality wasn't nearly as good and I wasn't able to make adjustments. Now, I'm using MKV, then HB. I thought I would be able to build both folders at the same rate, it's obviously not the case. My MKV folder is nearly 3 times the size of the HB finished movie folder. Guess, I should just pace myself and dig in for the long haul. I want to purchase an iMac, but I'm waiting just a little longer to see if Apple announces any upgrades for this fall. One last thing, at least for tonight, is there any way to set up several movies for process on HB, so I don't need to keep checking in? I noticed the queue button up top, but not sure what it actually does.

Thanks again!
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 11:14 AM   #36
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What about Dolby Digital Plus?

Thanks dynaflash for the AppleTV 3 preset! Have been waiting for it for months now and basically stopped all my BD encoding (not the ripping though). What really interests me is if HandBrake is now being able to transform/re-encode a Dolby Digital Plus (aka E-AC3) Bitstream? The last time I tried to encode some of my HD DVD rips HandBrake correctly identified the audio but only gave me a 2-channel AAC down mix after encoding

And yes, I set it to 6-channel discrete. It just never worked and I stopped encoding HD DVDs for some time now (although Dolby TrueHD always seemed to work, guess it's the hidden regular DD bitstream that helps). Is this fixed now in the new nightly builds? Together with the AppleTV 3 preset that would really make my day and I could queue up dozens of rips...

Or on another note: might Passthrough work for DolbyDigital Plus? Could the AppleTV handle it? Probably not, just asking. My AVR can decode it and the bitstream has the same size as regular DD.

Last edited by Number6; Jul 2, 2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:13 PM   #37
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And yes, I set it to 6-channel discrete.
6-channel discrete ... what ? AAC .. AC3 ?
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:16 PM   #38
Number6
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6-channel ac-3 (or plain DD) of course. Always works with DTS and (as I wrote) with Dolby TrueHD. Dolby Digital Plus seems to just... disappear.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:33 PM   #39
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6-channel ac-3 (or plain DD) of course. Always works with DTS and (as I wrote) with Dolby TrueHD. Dolby Digital Plus seems to just... disappear.
Well, eac3 should have no trouble being decoded by hb and encoded back to plain old AC3 DD via HB's AC3 (FFmpeg) encoder. I do not have any sample to test it on but it should work just fine.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:39 PM   #40
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Okay, thanks for the reply! Maybe that had something to do with my version of HandBrake. I am on the latest nightly build now and will give it a try.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:55 PM   #41
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by mic j View Post
I think things like this are why people are overwhelmed by HB and drift toward other encoders (even though they use the same encoding engine as HB). HB is designed to give you control over every aspect of transcoding. But that total control is only needed by a few, the 1% so to say. The other 99% of us will do just as well with selecting our preset, maybe adjust subtitle selections and hit run.
Basically you hit the nail on the head. A long time ago HB had no presets. Was pretty much a geek tool. You had to manually set everything ( it had widgets for at least) and hope for the best. Once I brought up the idea of presets there was also folks that said it should be " pick one device or profile .. and hit 'Go' " .

The decision was made that HB should be totally transparent in terms of the ui showing what was being done at any point. Many very experienced users tweak everything under the hood and HB is designed to allow that type of advanced encoding and transparency.


That said ... we also saw the need to be able to simply " click and encode" hence the current preset system. Is it intimidating ? Not to me. No. The idea was to be able to click on a preset and hit start (which largely was achieved at least in my opinion) while at the same time showing in the ui what was actually being done. I do think sometimes those from the "click and encode" crowd get caught up in the minutia they see when they click on a preset and in the main window widgets change. Should the main ui be hidden so people have a false security blanket (ala point and shoot simple encoders) ?

No. There are many HB users that started with "Click and Encode" but later became intrigued by the ability to customize and tweak. Some to success and some to failure. But the presets are always there as a fallback.

In general here is the idea ... " If a man is hungry you can give him a fish ... but it is better to teach him to fish .." .. or something like that.

I wax philosophical ( and not well I admit ) but the HB ui has been under a lot of discussion and always will be. Its the best attempt imo to appeal to power users as well as the novice that " just wants the damned thing to work on my device ".

Whether the mark was hit or not ... is a matter of personal opinion.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:15 PM   #42
mic j
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Using it, I have become comfortable, even though I technically understand very little of it. The information you have provided on this forum has been instrumental in my crude understanding. I'm just a user, so I tend to relate to those people who come on the forum overwhelmed by what they think they "need" to do to achieve great results using HB (or Subler).

I have often wondered if HB should not be bi-modal. A simple UI for those who simply want to achieve quick results through a simplified interface, while keeping an "advanced" mode that gives the total control wanted by others. But I am sure those discussions have and probably are occurring in the development group. I just say a UI in the development thread showing a new UI proposal. I thought it was an improvement over current.

Thanks again for all your help.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 03:26 PM   #43
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I'm just a user, so I tend to relate to those people who come on the forum overwhelmed by what they think they "need" to do to achieve great results using HB
And of course therein lies the rub

Most conversion software asks what you want to encode for and you just hit "encode" or some such.

HB's ui does that as well. Click one preset and hit start. However, it also aims for those that want to tune and tweak ( incidentally the devs that write it ) so imo there is no reason it cannot do both.

Many people have said "just have a simple list of devices and a 'Go' button ..." the rationale is to save people from themselves. Lol. that is most stupid. Let people see what the presets do, its a safe place and two clicks. But if users decide they want to tune and tweak all of the tools are there with the preset examples to do just that. 'Nuff said thats how its gonna be. Those that like it can use it. Those that are afraid ( I have no understanding why ) can try another transcoder. Beauty of it is its free so little to lose besides some time.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 03:28 PM   #44
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And of course therein lies the rub

Most conversion software asks what you want to encode for and you just hit "encode" or some such.

HB's ui does that as well. Click one preset and hit start. However, it also aims for those that want to tune and tweak ( incidentally the devs that write it ) so imo there is no reason it cannot do both.

Many people have said "just have a simple list of devices and a 'Go' button ..." the rationale is to save people from themselves. Lol. that is most stupid. Let people see what the presets do, its a safe place and two clicks. But if users decide they want to tune and tweak all of the tools are there with the preset examples to do just that. 'Nuff said thats how its gonna be. Those that like it can use it. Those that are afraid ( I have no understanding why ) can try another transcoder. Beauty of it is its free so little to lose besides some time.
I think you just need to add a giant Fisher Price "Go" button right in the middle of the window.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 05:18 PM   #45
Cobra611
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Okay, besides the length of time needed to process just 1 movie, I'm pretty happy with the end results. The Shawshank Redemption plays smooth, looks great and came it just under 8GB. Now, I've hit a road block. The last two "projects" came up empty for me. I selected High Profile, like I have been, and began. When completed, the new file showed up in my designated folder without the Apple music sign icon (that symbolizes a specific audio/video file) but with the file icon that looks like a page with a corner folded. And in the description of the file, it just says FILE, and not MPEG4. What could have happened over the last 2 runs I just finished? I didn't do anything differently than the previous ones. Any suggestions?? Thanks!!

Last edited by Cobra611; Jul 3, 2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 05:20 PM   #46
mic j
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Okay, besides the length of time needed to process just 1 movie, I'm pretty happy with the end results. The Shawshank Redemption plays smooth, looks great and came it just under 8GB. Now, I've hit a road block. The last two "projects" came up empty for me. I selected High Profile, like I have been, and began. When completed, the new file showed up in my designated folder without the Apple music sign icon (that symbolizes a specific audio/video file) but with the file icon that looks like a page with a corner folded. And in the description of the file, it just says FILE, and not MPEG4. What could have happened over the last 2 runs I just finished? I didn't do anything differently than the previous ones. Any suggestions?? Thanks!!
What size is it?
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 06:16 PM   #47
Cobra611
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What size is it?
I'm at work right now, but going on my bad memory, I believe the files were both a few GB's. I will check again later tonight, as I could be totally incorrect. But, I do believe I saw the files being large, as large as the files that processed correctly.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 07:45 PM   #48
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I'm at work right now, but going on my bad memory, I believe the files were both a few GB's. I will check again later tonight, as I could be totally incorrect. But, I do believe I saw the files being large, as large as the files that processed correctly.
2 things, look into the file contents using Media Inspector. There should be a Video track, probably 2 audio tracks (if you did stereo and surround), possibly some subtitle tracks. Compare them to your Shawshank Redemption tracks and see if everything looks normal. Also, it may be something as simple as just changing the extension to m4v. Doesn't hurt to give that a shot. I have no idea why what happened happened.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 09:14 PM   #49
Cobra611
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2 things, look into the file contents using Media Inspector. There should be a Video track, probably 2 audio tracks (if you did stereo and surround), possibly some subtitle tracks. Compare them to your Shawshank Redemption tracks and see if everything looks normal. Also, it may be something as simple as just changing the extension to m4v. Doesn't hurt to give that a shot. I have no idea why what happened happened.
BAM...I think you just solved the problem. When setting up HB, I usually just select the folder, then make the name change afterward. I know I did it, this last time and perhaps the time before, but I backspaced and deleted the mv4 extension. THANK U IN ADVANCE!!!!!!
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 09:27 PM   #50
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I have one Apple TV 3 and three Apple TV 2s.

When the Apple TV 2 first came out it dropped frames when down converting 1080p content to 720p but I hear rumors that more recent software updates allow the Apple TV 2 to down convert 1080p to 720p smoothly.

Can anyone speak to how the new Apple TV 3 Handbrake preset performs when played back on an Apple TV 2 (obviously at 720p.)

I would like to begin ripping Blurays at 1080p for future proofing but not at the expense of 3 of my Apple TVs being unable to play it back...

Thanks...
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