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Old Jul 23, 2012, 09:51 AM   #126
mic j
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Originally Posted by CylonGlitch View Post
It does, I used RF18 for both rips. I guess that didn't come across clearly.
Thanks for the clarification. I was heading out and was reading quickly, so I think I just didn't catch that.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 04:40 PM   #127
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0.9.8 Improves Transcoding Speed

Just wanted to mention that I have experienced a significant increase in transcoding speed using v0.9.8 with the aTV3 preset. Used to get approx. 26fps and now get approx. 38fps...with standard definition source file. Will see about BR in a few days, but I would hope it would show a similar increase.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 04:51 PM   #128
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Just wanted to mention that I have experienced a significant increase in transcoding speed using v0.9.8 with the aTV3 preset. Used to get approx. 26fps and now get approx. 38fps...with standard definition source file. Will see about BR in a few days, but I would hope it would show a similar increase.
I've been reading all of these but haven't found a definitive answer yet.

Is the new Apple TV3 preset in 0.9.8 different from the custom preset that you recommened I do?
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 05:06 PM   #129
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I've been reading all of these but haven't found a definitive answer yet.

Is the new Apple TV3 preset in 0.9.8 different from the custom preset that you recommened I do?
I believe there have definitely been some tweaks. I know the "fast" decomb is different but am not sure if that change is the source of what I am experiencing. At any rate, I would recommend giving it a try as the transcode speed difference is pretty significant and I don't see a downside.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 07:13 PM   #130
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My transccode times are just as long using the ATV3 Preset. I'm talking between 15-18 hrs, and not to mention my file sizes are now around 10-11gb as opposed to 3-7gb. This is with running ATV3 with Fast decomb and no other changes.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 08:21 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
My transccode times are just as long using the ATV3 Preset. I'm talking between 15-18 hrs, and not to mention my file sizes are now around 10-11gb as opposed to 3-7gb. This is with running ATV3 with Fast decomb and no other changes.


Well, I'll know for sure when I transcode a BR, but both dvd's I transcoded definitely had a higher transcode frame rate than I have seen previously. And I did post anything until I had done a second one to see if it was similar. I guess the old adage, YMMV, might be appropriate here.

Just curious, are you using the 0.9.8?
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 09:37 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
My transccode times are just as long using the ATV3 Preset. I'm talking between 15-18 hrs, and not to mention my file sizes are now around 10-11gb as opposed to 3-7gb. This is with running ATV3 with Fast decomb and no other changes.
I have tried transcoding a few BluRay movies using both the ATV2 and ATV3 presets in HandBrake 0.9.8. I am pretty consistently seeing the ATV3 preset taking about twice as long and generating an m4v which is about twice as large. On a two year old AMD Athlon II X4, my ATV2 transcodes run in "real time" (takes about as long to transcode as the playing time of the movie). I guess that means I'm getting 24 FPS with the ATV2 preset and 12 FPS with the ATV3 preset.

I don't have an ATV3, but I have been watching them on my new Retina MacBook Pro. I see only a slight improvement with the ATV3 preset, so I'm concluding that, for me, it's not worth the extra time and disc space.

Is this at all consistent with others out there are seeing?

Is there some tweak I should try to improve the size/performance? I'm just using the default RF: 20 with both presets.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:14 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by mic j View Post


Well, I'll know for sure when I transcode a BR, but both dvd's I transcoded definitely had a higher transcode frame rate than I have seen previously. And I did post anything until I had done a second one to see if it was similar. I guess the old adage, YMMV, might be appropriate here.

Just curious, are you using the 0.9.8?
Yes, I using the new update 0.9.8. It usually averages 2 or 3 FPS. I have run using the Normal setting, adjust the RF down to 18, Fast Decomb and it runs much faster, usually averaging nothing less than 10 FPS. The quality seems very good as well. I'm doing that for my least favorite movies to save some time. Movies that I know I want to see detail, I will use ATV3 even though I cannot see a difference. But, no matter which one I use, I get a lot of judder, if that's what you call it, when scenes move quickly side to side. And no matter what movie I play, ripped Blu Ray or purchased in iTunes, I always notice a little, quick skip. I thought it was the buffering, but it also does it after it completes buffering. I noticed that over my friends house too. Guess it's something to live with.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 01:02 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Cobra611 View Post
Yes, I using the new update 0.9.8. It usually averages 2 or 3 FPS. I have run using the Normal setting, adjust the RF down to 18, Fast Decomb and it runs much faster, usually averaging nothing less than 10 FPS. The quality seems very good as well. I'm doing that for my least favorite movies to save some time. Movies that I know I want to see detail, I will use ATV3 even though I cannot see a difference. But, no matter which one I use, I get a lot of judder, if that's what you call it, when scenes move quickly side to side. And no matter what movie I play, ripped Blu Ray or purchased in iTunes, I always notice a little, quick skip. I thought it was the buffering, but it also does it after it completes buffering. I noticed that over my friends house too. Guess it's something to live with.
I looked back at my BR rips using the 0.9.6. They run anywhere from 4GB to 10GB file size, with the average being 6.2GB. So that is a large file size span and obviously due to a combination of source and movie length. If I remember correctly, my processing speed was around 6fps

Edit: The last 3 std. dvd's I encoded using 0.9.8 have been 0.9-1.1GB and looking over all of my other std. dvd file sizes they range from 1 to 2GB with most being around 1.5GB
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Last edited by mic j; Jul 26, 2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: additional info.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 01:55 PM   #135
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ATV 3 Preset

does anyone know why the Apple TV 3 preset defaults to a FrameRate of 30? Shouldn't it default to "Same as Source?"?

Just wondering...

Thanks
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 02:03 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by iNewbie View Post
does anyone know why the Apple TV 3 preset defaults to a FrameRate of 30? Shouldn't it default to "Same as Source?"?

Just wondering...

Thanks
That's the *Peak* frame rate, which means that it will use "same as source" unless that is greater than 30. This must be to ensure they don't exceed the maximum rate the ATV3 is capable of.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 02:13 PM   #137
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You guys comparing past encodes as far as file size and encoding times do realize that you would have to use the exact same source etc. to have any meaningful information ... right ?

File sizes can balloon big time depending on the type of source content. As well so can the encoding speed. For example the main reason HB will typically run fast at the beginning as well as at the end of a movies is because its often a black scene such as credits, etc. The encoder will slow down as it encounters more complex frames such as detailed, grainy fast motion.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 02:32 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
You guys comparing past encodes as far as file size and encoding times do realize that you would have to use the exact same source etc. to have any meaningful information ... right ?

File sizes can balloon big time depending on the type of source content. As well so can the encoding speed. For example the main reason HB will typically run fast at the beginning as well as at the end of a movies is because its often a black scene such as credits, etc. The encoder will slow down as it encounters more complex frames such as detailed, grainy fast motion.
Yep, aware of that. That's why I was looking at an average over a number of movies and I realize my "n=3" is small for 0.9.8. What caught my attention was having an average fps of around 39 for those 3 movies. In all of my past encodes the average fps was around 26 (n>100) I just thought that was interesting as that is not a small difference. But who knows, my next one could be 10 average fps. Just was interested in to whether anyone else had noticed it too, which let to a "weak" comparison of file sizes. But that's all we have at this point.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 02:59 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by KevinC867 View Post
I have tried transcoding a few BluRay movies using both the ATV2 and ATV3 presets in HandBrake 0.9.8. I am pretty consistently seeing the ATV3 preset taking about twice as long and generating an m4v which is about twice as large. On a two year old AMD Athlon II X4, my ATV2 transcodes run in "real time" (takes about as long to transcode as the playing time of the movie). I guess that means I'm getting 24 FPS with the ATV2 preset and 12 FPS with the ATV3 preset.
Well, first off the atv 2 preset does not use any decombing filter as well as b-adapt=2 which makes bframes more accurate (lowers files size) like the atv 3 preset does, so that *may* explain the speed difference. Plus ... the file size would be twice as large since the atv2 preset downscales to 720p where the atv3 preset allows up to 1080p and if your source is blu ray ... well there you go.

----------

... also please realize handbrake tells you what the average encoding fps is near the end of the encode in the activity log ...

Code:
[09:21:21] work: average encoding speed for job is 41.339725 fps
So your preception of an encoding speed is verified exactly in the hb activity log. Also of course ... if you are doing other cpu intensive tasks it will skew the speed that hb can encode at. In general ... HB will take all of the cpu it can get, that said of course running another cpu intensive task will rob HB of cpu therefore a lower encoding speed.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:46 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Well, first off the atv 2 preset does not use any decombing filter, so that *may* explain the speed difference. Plus ... the file size would be twice as large since the atv2 preset downscales to 720p where the atv3 preset allows up to 1080p and if your source is blu ray ... well there you go.

also please realize handbrake tells you what the average encoding fps is near the end of the encode in the activity log ...

work: average encoding speed for job is 41.339725 fps[/CODE]

So your preception of an encoding speed is verified exactly in the hb activity log. Also of course ... if you are doing other cpu intensive tasks it will skew the speed that hb can encode at. In general ... HB will take all of the cpu it can get, that said of course running another cpu intensive task will rob HB of cpu therefore a lower encoding speed.
Thanks DynaFlash. I'll try it again with decomb off. (I thought I had done that, but the log file tells me I didn't.) Nothing else was running on the machine. I pretty much built this machine just to run MakeMKV and HandBrake. I hate it when the fans run loudly on my laptop.

I checked my saved log files. The ATV2 run went at 24.3 FPS and the ATV3 run went at just 10.3 FPS. The ATV2 output was 2.39GB and the ATV3 output was 5.78 GB. The movie was "Red" - length 1h 51mn.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 04:22 PM   #141
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I checked my saved log files. The ATV2 run went at 24.3 FPS and the ATV3 run went at just 10.3 FPS. The ATV2 output was 2.39GB and the ATV3 output was 5.78 GB. The movie was "Red" - length 1h 51mn.
What res was "Red" at ? 1080p ? if so it would explain both the lower encoding speed and larger file.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 05:00 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by KevinC867 View Post
That's the *Peak* frame rate, which means that it will use "same as source" unless that is greater than 30. This must be to ensure they don't exceed the maximum rate the ATV3 is capable of.
Thank you very much for the information!
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 05:22 PM   #143
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What res was "Red" at ? 1080p ? if so it would explain both the lower encoding speed and larger file.
Yes, it's a 1080p BluRay rip, so I'm not really surprised by the size and time to transcode. I thought I was hearing that Apple was applying some "magic" to their 1080p iTunes content and that it was much less than 2X the size of their 720p content. I thought I heard that folks might be experiencing something similar with HandBrake's ATV3 preset, so I gave it a try.

I'm very happy with the quality of my BluRay encodes using the 720P ATV2 preset, so I think I will just stay with that. I save the raw MKV files of my favorites, so I can always play those when I'm at home and want the ultimate in quality.

Thanks for all your help here and your work on HandBrake!
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 08:01 PM   #144
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Yes, I was also aware of that. Just making generic comparisons. But, would I benefit from running with Decomb on or off? Right now, I run with it on Fast. I'm not certain of its' benefits.

Update...ripping has come to a screeching halt as a wicked T-Storm just knocked out power
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 04:13 PM   #145
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I retract any suggestion that the new aTV 3 preset is faster.

I did have an interesting experience with it (using a Nightly Build/aTV 3 preset), transcoded "For A Few Dollars More" BR. Input size was 1920x1080, Output size was 720x306. After viewing the file it is very pixelated and noisy (and grainy but that's part of the film). Selected the aTV 3 preset using anamorphic strict instead of loose and the Output is 1918x814 and has original source visual quality. Guess this is one of those rare times when "loose" doesn't work so well.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:02 AM   #146
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I recently encoded a 3 hour movie using ATV3 preset on 0.98. File size was huge - over 18GB. The film does have a lot of grain. Does this make sense even for a 3 hr movie? It does look very good - no discernible difference from original blu-ray but wasn't expecting such a large file.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:11 AM   #147
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I recently encoded a 3 hour movie using ATV3 preset on 0.98. File size was huge - over 18GB. The film does have a lot of grain. Does this make sense even for a 3 hr movie? It does look very good - no discernible difference from original blu-ray but wasn't expecting such a large file.
With a high grain film and it being 3 hours long, that is reasonable. I am at 15GB for "A Few Dollars More" and it's only 92% encoded. Dr. Zhivago was 12GB and was less grainy.

Update: A Few Dollars More ended up 17GB and took 15hrs to transcode (RF=20)
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Last edited by mic j; Jul 31, 2012 at 11:56 AM. Reason: updated information
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:15 AM   #148
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I recently encoded a 3 hour movie using ATV3 preset on 0.98. File size was huge - over 18GB. The film does have a lot of grain. Does this make sense even for a 3 hr movie? It does look very good - no discernible difference from original blu-ray but wasn't expecting such a large file.
Yes, this fits with my experience. Encoding the Director's Cut edition of Aliens (a very grainy, 1.78:1 aspect ratio [16:9 fullscreen] film) led to a file that was actually larger than the original .mkv from MakeMKV.

In this case, I just remuxed the original mkv, and use that.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:45 AM   #149
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With a high grain film and it being 3 hours long, that is reasonable. I am at 15GB for "A Few Dollars More" and it's only 92% encoded. Dr. Zhivago was 12GB and was less grainy.
I just encoded Peal Harbor from Blu Ray using the ATV3 preset, and got a 10GB file. Not bad I think, and totally in line with the file sizes I have been getting from this preset.

I know from the past that lots of grain (and black and white, for some reason) create very large files, which will be exacerbated by the 1080p resolution. For those getting much larger file sizes, are you changing the RF value?
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 12:26 PM   #150
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With a high grain film and it being 3 hours long, that is reasonable. I am at 15GB for "A Few Dollars More" and it's only 92% encoded. Dr. Zhivago was 12GB and was less grainy.

Update: A Few Dollars More ended up 17GB and took 15hrs to transcode (RF=20)
Thanks. Guess it's the length + grain. Movie was Sound of Music by the way. Exceptional transfer from 70mm film. Just upgraded from my 2007 MBP to a retina MPB. Encode was 4hrs 20min @ 16.8 fps avg - not too bad. God knows how long it would have taken on my old machine.
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