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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:02 AM   #51
powers74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollerz View Post
Looks like Mountain Lion is the end of the road for my Mid 2007 iMac! Hopefully some nice new ones released in time for 10.9
Probably for my early '09 MacPro too.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:03 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
People can't legitimately expect to receive the newest updates on machines that are 3+ years old.
You're kidding right? I don't understand how this is anything but a joke... Windows 8 will be supported on PC's that are a decade old. 3 years is nothing for a $1,000-$3,000 computer.

I understand Apple pushes hardware sales where Microsoft pushes software sales but still....

I think 5 years is a good length of time for compatibility for a Mac. All Mac's released 2007 and later.

And yes... I have a late 2007 Macbook
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:03 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mad Mac Maniac View Post
Really??? So the Mac Pro is given the same treatment as the Generic "Macbook" line? And is given worse support than the iMac and MBP? I feel sorry for Mac Pro buyers... Apple really hates you. I'm pretty sure the Mac Pro has only been refreshed once since it's "Early 2008 or newer"

Edit: ok twice. And no, I don't count that "update" last month...
Apple doesn't respect their pro users, period. If they did they wouldn't have been issuing an "update" with 2 year old hardware and no usb3 and/or thunderbolt in 2012.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:03 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremedesigner View Post
From what I read, looks like a machine that is 5+ years old can still run ML. Interesting.
Mountain Lion GM runs like crap on my two year old 27" iMac i5 with 8GB RAM. Windows 8 --FLIES-- on Dell notebooks that are several years older than my iMac. My Mac Pro 1,1 could neither run Lion nor the 64-Bit kernel of Snow Leopard, but 64-Bit Windows ran on it just perfectly. THAT is interesting, because it says a lot about how lousy Apple supports hardware that has barely reached its third year.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmggs View Post
Planed obsolescence
That's why i think Apple don't care about environment. They want force people to buy and buy new gear trashing away very capable gear.
Except that on average, Mac owners keep their computers longer than PC users. Only geeks like us have to have the latest and greatest OS. My wife, who is a programmer by trade, still runs 10.6 on her MacBook. Why? Because it still does what she needs it to do. It didn't suddenly stop working when Lion was released.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #56
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobenobi View Post
The ARS report seems to miss that EFI64 is required for Mountain Lion. While a Mac might have a CPU capable of 64-bit, it still might be running EFI32 and therefore won't be supported. No EFI64 means no 64-bit kernel which means no Mountain Lion.
Yup, that's my concern.

I have an iMac here that was purchased in Nov 2007 (MB322LL/A: definitely mid-2007 Core2duo Extreme model) that reports back EFI32 and I know it does not boot a 64-bit kernel.

We also have a MB325LL/A, with is an early 2008 model that does support EFI64.

Ah, think I found the answer here:
http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/...-bit-mode.html

The 64-bit boot capability is locked out, but it is there.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itpirate View Post
That stinks! I can upgrade my 08 iMac, but not my 2007 Mac Pro? My Mac Pro can run circles around my iMac.
Put Windows or Linux on it. You'll be better off.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:04 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
How much effort does it take to upgrade a kext/driver? I would guess less effort than working on "Game Center".
At a minimum, it would take recompilation. At a maximum, it would take nearly a complete rewrite. To quantify this for you, recomp would take hours. Rewrite would take a year.

F
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by SleeplessChaos View Post
On the plus side, there will probably be decently significant price drops on quite a few good macs that can still run lion and snow leopard.

Definitely nothing like the old Power PC prices for the time being, but the perceived value of these older macs is bound to go down considering that they'll be left out of every major OS update from here on out.
Very true, but the security updates from Apple (seemingly becoming more important over the last year or two) will stop for Snow Leopard at the end of this month (Mountain Lion release, Apple only supports the 2 most recent releases) even though Lion was only out for a year.

Security updates for those stuck on Lion (myself included with a Mac Pro quad core) will presumably end next year (as it seems Apple is now doing yearly OS releases like they do for iOS) - security updates for 2 years and out.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:05 AM   #61
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I doubt it's a major problem to continue to use ones computer without facebook, twitter and icloud buttons everywhere.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:06 AM   #62
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Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
People can't legitimately expect to receive the newest updates on machines that are 3+ years old.
I'm sorry. One of the main arguments to defend apple's high entry price is the durability of the computers...

My late 2008 aluminum macbook, when pumped up with 4 gigs of ram and a SSD is supposed to run for 3 more years.
Not for gaming of course, but for office and internet browsing there's no reason for it not to.

And I don't care for technical reasons. Common sense demands it happens.


Mac'on.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:07 AM   #63
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I really dislikes this! My black macbook runs like a charm on Snow leopard. But since XCode 4.2 I cant upgrade xcode anymore. And now they are gonna require me to buy a new computer, to be able to use XCode.

It´s like 1200 Euro for a new Mac, which I is a lot of money for me.

How difficult can it be to develop new drivers.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:08 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
Except that on average, Mac owners keep their computers longer than PC users. Only geeks like us have to have the latest and greatest OS. My wife, who is a programmer by trade, still runs 10.6 on her MacBook. Why? Because it still does what she needs it to do. It didn't suddenly stop working when Lion was released.
In some way you are correct. But i see more and more people going like nuts buying the last ipad and iphone. Because the one they have don't support this and that...
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:08 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Working on the low levels required for hardware access in a driver is where 32bit to 64 bit porting requires the most effort as often you're dealing with fixed width registries and can't simply "recompile" code into a 64 bit binary, you have to adjust types.
I gotta disagree - it is effort but for well adjusted kernel developers working on a sanely designed OS - it is not that big of a deal. (Unless of course Apple's GPU vendors are refusing to help - but I don't see why that should be an issue.) This is either issue with Apple's priorities (Game center higher than people's perfectly good old Macs) or implementation (so bloated down with glitter those old GPUs bog down fast).
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:09 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navdakilla View Post
Not a big deal. They are dropping support for computers 4-5 years old.
I would love to see my old single core windows xp computer handle windows 8.
No problem. My dad's happy as a clam running W7 on his Northwood P4 2.8 single core and 2GB of memory, and it does run just fine - for what he uses his computer for (internet and office stuff). It'll run W8 just as well. A hand-me-down system (from me) built in 2002.

One of these days I'll upgrade him to the C2Q I still have sitting at home, unused since I got my Mac in 2009.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:10 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
People can't legitimately expect to receive the newest updates on machines that are 3+ years old.
You must be kidding.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:10 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by fishmoose View Post
No. But you still don't have much of a reason to right click on a Mac So it's all good.
what are you talking about? mac's have supported multiple-button mice for ages. apple's Mighty Mouse and Magic Mouse have offered two buttons for years.

Last edited by mdelvecchio; Jul 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:11 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Mac Maniac View Post
You're kidding right?.... 3 years is nothing for a $1,000-$3,000 computer....
5 years is a good length of time for compatibility for a Mac.
And yes... I have a late 2007 Macbook
100% agree and I have new Macs.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:12 AM   #70
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Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itpirate View Post
That stinks! I can upgrade my 08 iMac, but not my 2007 Mac Pro? My Mac Pro can run circles around my iMac.
I love OSX. But I'm really getting fed up with this flimsy "feels-like" of Apple.

It's just like not putting siri on iPad 2.

People already throw money at Apple, the only reason why we don't renew our Apple gear more frequently is because some of us are not made of money.

Mac'on
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:13 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
People can't legitimately expect to receive the newest updates on machines that are 3+ years old.
Maybe 5 years, but I would say yes they should receive updates for year 3 - 4.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:13 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russofris View Post
At a minimum, it would take recompilation. At a maximum, it would take nearly a complete rewrite. To quantify this for you, recomp would take hours. Rewrite would take a year.

F
So worst case, a complete rewrite for a kext in order to support hardware that can run 10.8 would be required. Wasn't 10.8 a complete re-write of Lion, as 10.6 was for 10.5?

Apple could have easily implemented support for certain systems that still technically meet the necessary requirements. Instead, iOS features seemed to be the focus for engineers and Apple can sell more hardware for those who need 10.8 support. Sorry, but this is simply a business strategy by a company that pushes a 3 year turn over rate for their systems (OS X and AppleCare support are evidence to this point).

UPDATE: Thank you MacRumors for FINALLY removing the negative voting system!
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:13 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Radio View Post
very fair.

this is why im on the verge of jumping ship entirely to apple.

my notebook is a sony vaio and support has been weak.

have they invented two button mouses yet in the apple world?
I've had a magic mouse for two years and could use two buttons.

In fact, Lion has an option in System Preferences to use the secondary button.

Is there any page which tells what your Mac is? It's hard to tell from the years - is there any place that converts models to year ranges?
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:14 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by SpiderDude View Post
I'm sorry. One of the main arguments to defend apple's high entry price is the durability of the computers...
and your argument continues to stand -- not being able to run the latest & greatest OS X doesnt in anyway de-value the usefulness of your version. it's every bit as functional as the day you bought it, probably more.

just stop comparing it to whats new *today*.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:14 AM   #75
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The Sweet Spot

I think this is just a case of the sweet spot. Apple Supports computers for 5 years and then they get labeled Vintage (aka Unsupported/Obsolete). This is just that rare case when some hardware was 32-bit when it should of been 64-bit. Anytime I look at buying a computer I always look at the internals and see what the life span of the technology is or if I may have a problem in the future. When everything was moving to 64-bit I wouldn't of bought a Mac that had hardware that only supported 32-bit drivers. Unfortunately, because of Marketing and things like that.. your average consumer wouldn't be thinking about this.
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