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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:40 AM   #26
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Who the hell knows they are gay at that age?
I knew from the age of about 12.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:41 AM   #27
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I knew from the age of about 12.
You knew about as much as any 12 year old knows at that age, which is nothing.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:43 AM   #28
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You knew about as much as any 12 year old knows at that age, which is nothing.
Whether I knew what it was called or not, my *ahem* little Queso knew what it liked. What else is there to it?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:50 AM   #29
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You knew about as much as any 12 year old knows at that age, which is nothing.
But in 11 more years you know everything?

If they all did move here, the brain/artistic drain would be catastrophic to the States.

Make no mistake about that.

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Whether I knew what it was called or not, my *ahem* little Queso knew what it liked. What else is there to it?
Your built-in divining rod??
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:54 AM   #30
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Sounds like adults attempting to interject their ******** into kids activities. Its like the drunk father that shows up for the kids birthday party. Holy ****, its little ****ing kids going camping, leave it the **** alone.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:56 AM   #31
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Whether I knew what it was called or not, my *ahem* little Queso knew what it liked. What else is there to it?
Sure you may have felt that way, but those types of things changed. And I think there are plenty of straight and gay people who at age 12 thought they were something they weren't. Nobody knows what they're doing or thinking at 12.

----------

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But in 11 more years you know everything?

If they all did move here, the brain/artistic drain would be catastrophic to the States.

Make no mistake
what are you talking about?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:59 AM   #32
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Sure you may have felt that way, but those types of things changed. And I think there are plenty of straight and gay people who at age 12 thought they were something they weren't. Nobody knows what they're doing or thinking at 12.
Silly me. I'm forgetting you were there at the time.

What you have posted may well have been 100% true for your own life at that age, but it is 0% true for mine. Stop projecting.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:01 AM   #33
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You knew about as much as any 12 year old knows at that age, which is nothing.
Seriously, you know - everything else is hormone-imbalanced denial. What is even worse is that so many youth groups won't deal with that aspect of coming of age only making it harder for LGBT youth to come to terms with who they are. They grow up insecure and unsure about their true self and everybody else won't have any previous experience making it a challenge accepting them as their equal.

And then they say a family support system is important...
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:08 AM   #34
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Silly me. I'm forgetting you were there at the time.

What you have posted may well have been 100% true for your own life at that age, but it is 0% true for mine. Stop projecting.
It's pretty much true for all 12 year olds. I'm not projecting anything.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:20 AM   #35
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It's pretty much true for all 12 year olds. I'm not projecting anything.
So now you're claiming to know what's happening with every 12 year old on the planet?

You're funny.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:26 AM   #36
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It's pretty much true for all 12 year olds. I'm not projecting anything.
What is the youngest age someone can have a determined sexuality then?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 10:15 AM   #37
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Who the hell knows they are gay at that age?
Between the ages of 11 and 18? Nearly everybody.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 10:45 AM   #38
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Between the ages of 11 and 18? Nearly everybody.
Perhaps he believes gay teens are just "going through a phase" and that the age of consent for gay sex should be 21 to "protect the vulnerable".
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 11:37 AM   #39
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You knew about as much as any 12 year old knows at that age, which is nothing.
This is truly ridiculous. You may not have known anything then (or now it would seem), but that doesn't make it true for every 12 year old.

We are in a different age - when I was in second grade, I had a crush on my (female) teacher. I didn't know what it was, but obviously looking back I've always felt the way I do. Kids are much more aware of their sexuality at a much younger age. Blame the media, or television, or whatever you want - but to say that 12 year olds know nothing is ignorance - and nothing more.

I know you don't like to waste your time with charitable actions - but if you ever get a change of heart, you should look into the Trevor Project. Too many kids who are surrounded by people who think like you do. It's heartbreaking and enlightening.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 11:38 AM   #40
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Sure you may have felt that way, but those types of things changed. And I think there are plenty of straight and gay people who at age 12 thought they were something they weren't. Nobody knows what they're doing or thinking at 12.
I knew I liked guys when I was 4. That never changed.

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I know you don't like to waste your time with charitable actions - but if you ever get a change of heart, you should look into the Trevor Project. Too many kids who are surrounded by people who think like you do. It's heartbreaking and enlightening.
He won't even give it a thought. I guarantee you. Again, conservatives don't like facts. They live in the world of "shoulda woulda coulda", not reality.

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Old Jul 18, 2012, 11:47 AM   #41
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I don't agree with their views, but they do have the right being a Private Company. But don't they receive government grants? Wouldn't that make them a Public company?
Not any more than receiving Federal student aid, welfare, or Social Security benefits makes you a government agent.

I spent some time in the Cub Scouts many years ago. While I'm sure this policy was in place then, there was no mention of homosexuality, positive, negative, or otherwise. It just wasn't a topic for discussion. We were usually too busy doing things like crafts, learning archery, etc.

Also, I take exception to the characterization of scouting as a "religious" organization. There was nothing religious about it, aside from the word "reverent" in the motto.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 11:55 AM   #42
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Disappointing. Of course this decision does nothing to actually eliminate gays in the organization, just makes them hide their identity.

I attended only one cub scout meeting and I'm not homosexual, so I have no personal investment in this, but my dad was an Eagle Scout and very active throughout his youth. I am proud to say that following the BSA's original proclamation against gays a few years ago, he returned all of his badges and awards in protest.

Sooner or later, this country (and the people and organizations within it) will look back in shame at the way we have discriminated against and tried to exclude homosexuals from full participation in our society.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 11:58 AM   #43
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Not any more than receiving Federal student aid, welfare, or Social Security benefits makes you a government agent.

I spent some time in the Cub Scouts many years ago. While I'm sure this policy was in place then, there was no mention of homosexuality, positive, negative, or otherwise. It just wasn't a topic for discussion. We were usually too busy doing things like crafts, learning archery, etc.

Also, I take exception to the characterization of scouting as a "religious" organization. There was nothing religious about it, aside from the word "reverent" in the motto.
It's not just the mention or the discussion of homosexuality, it's the fact that if I wanted to be a troop leader (as if ) as an openly homosexual woman, I wouldn't be allowed. Replace homosexual in this ban with African American, and this would be a much bigger story. And just as bigoted and ignorant by the Boy Scouts.

And I understand why you take exception to the characterization, but unfortunately religion is a big motivating factor behind this ban. There is big money from big places backing them - the unfortunate truth is that some sort of religion is behind much of the discrimination that we encounter.

Last edited by balamw; Jul 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: response to deleted post removed
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:36 PM   #44
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So you're not a fan of any private company or non-profit - even a non-profit that offers services to the public - using public space or accommodations? Good luck with that.
I'm not a fan of a private company using facilities for free, no. And even less a fan of one that discriminates against a segment of society. Some of you may feel they should get rewarded for that, I on the other hand don't.

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I really don't care either way on the ruling, since I don't care about the Boy Scouts. It was never a part of my life growing up, so not too concerned.
How nice of you to frame your concern solely based on only your own life experiences. Who cares about the kids facing discrimination, right? How about you try and get out of that little box you have built for yourself and realize the stuff that other people go through in life....and then try to make it a bit better for them? Now there's an idea.

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Who the hell knows they are gay at that age?
Lots of people. I knew what I liked when I was four. Of course you have no idea what sex is at that age (at least I hope no one does) but you know what catches your eye vs. what does not, even at that age.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:43 PM   #45
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... Also, I take exception to the characterization of scouting as a "religious" organization. There was nothing religious about it, aside from the word "reverent" in the motto.
There's an entire page @ Wikipedia devoted to the topic of Religion in Scouting that should give you some insight into the subject.

To quote a couple of choice snippets of info from that page:

Quote:
Boy Scouts of America

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) in the United States takes a hard-line position, excluding atheists and agnostics. The BSA has come under strong criticism over the past years due to their religious policy and stance against agnostics and atheists:

"Declaration of Religious Principle. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognising an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honour I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of his favours and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."

The Boy Scouts of America has accepted Buddhist members and units since 1920, and also accepts members of various pantheistic faiths. Many Buddhists do not believe in a supreme being or creator deity, but because these beliefs are still religious and spiritual in nature, they are deemed acceptable by the BSA since their leaders subscribe to the BSA Declaration of Religious Principle
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United States of America

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) celebrates Scout Sunday and Scout Sabbath in February, while the Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) celebrates similar holidays, known as Girl Scout Sabbath, Girl Scout Shabbat, and Girl Scout Sunday, in March.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) includes Scouting as an official part of its religious program for boys and young men. The LDS Church was the first institutional sponsor of the BSA in the USA, and currently sponsors more BSA units than any other organization.

The Boy Scouts of America requires all scouts to believe in a God or comparable higher power, but currently admits Scouts who are non-theistic Buddhists, Jains, and Hindus from non-theistic sectarian groups. The religious awards of all three faiths are recognized by The Boy Scouts of America. The Girl Scouts of the USA does not have any requirement of faith or belief, and admits girls of any or no religious belief or doctrine, regardless of the presence or absence of belief in a God or comparable higher power.

Both organizations require their members to recite a pledge that includes a reference to God; the BSA pledge requires a commitment to do their "duty to God", while the GSUSA pledge asks girls "to serve God". However, while GSUSA allows the elimination or substitution of "God" with an alternate word that represents a scout's beliefs, BSA does not.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:51 PM   #46
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Who the hell knows they are gay at that age?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America

Boy Scouting is the flagship program of the BSA for boys ages 11 to 18.
---

Id asume most 12-18 year olds have some inkling as to who they are attracted to.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:52 PM   #47
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It's not just the mention or the discussion of homosexuality, it's the fact that if I wanted to be a troop leader (as if ) as an openly homosexual woman, I wouldn't be allowed. Replace homosexual in this ban with African American, and this would be a much bigger story. And just as bigoted and ignorant by the Boy Scouts.
That's my point. In my three or so years with the organization, I was in different groups under different leaders (both male and female), and there was never a time when sexuality ever came up. We were busy doing other things. It was irrelevant. In other words, I can't (as an adult) understand why it's even an issue, since it never even came up.

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And I understand why you take exception to the characterization, but unfortunately religion is a big motivating factor behind this ban. There is big money from big places backing them - the unfortunate truth is that some sort of religion is behind much of the discrimination that we encounter.
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There's an entire page @ Wikipedia devoted to the topic of Religion in Scouting that should give you some insight into the subject.
While I don't disagree with the notion that religious organizations may support the Boy Scouts, financially or otherwise, I still stand by my statement that scouting, when I was a member at least, is not a religious organization. Just like sexuality, religion and worship were never discussed in any meetings I ever attended.

I don't think federal funding should be revoked for any organization simply because a church supports that organization as well.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:58 PM   #48
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That's my point. In my three or so years with the organization, I was in different groups under different leaders (both male and female), and there was never a time when sexuality ever came up. We were busy doing other things. It was irrelevant. In other words, I can't (as an adult) understand why it's even an issue, since it never even came up.
You think the scouts should open up the experience to gay kids too right?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:14 PM   #49
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Why? Gay kids can't be scouts? Or are you saying that gay adults are all pedophiles?
Thank you, why is the attitude that (gay men = likely pedophillic) so generally accepted?!

The people I'm worried about are the ones who aren't willing to face up to their sexuality (ie* priests).
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:14 PM   #50
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That's my point. In my three or so years with the organization, I was in different groups under different leaders (both male and female), and there was never a time when sexuality ever came up. We were busy doing other things. It was irrelevant. In other words, I can't (as an adult) understand why it's even an issue, since it never even came up.

Fine- so then why can't gay kids join?



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While I don't disagree with the notion that religious organizations may support the Boy Scouts, financially or otherwise, I still stand by my statement that scouting, when I was a member at least, is not a religious organization. Just like sexuality, religion and worship were never discussed in any meetings I ever attended.

I don't think federal funding should be revoked for any organization simply because a church supports that organization as well.
Funding should be revoked because the are discriminatory, not because they are supported by religion.
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