Stay away from Happy Valley, Paterno statue coming down...

[carlgo]

Don't forget the huge number of enormous lawsuits that are going to happen. And there will be more charges filed and there is a chance a number of officials will go to jail.

Football-wise, I imagine many local players may feel the need to go there, but most stars are going elsewhere, so the program will suffer beyond the sanctions.

And universities everywhere want prestige and credibility, but PS lost that and won't get it back for years.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by stonyc

Not harsh enough, IMO..

For reference...

Announcement Details:
- NCAA sanctions Penn St for $60 million (one year gross revenue for Penn St Football) Funds will be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university.
- 4-year Postseason Ban
- Penn State must also reduce 10 initial and 20 total scholarships each year for a four-year period. The program will be limited to 15 scholarships beginning for the next four years beginning in 2013. The normal limit is 25 per year.
- Vacate all wins from 1998-2011 (yes, 2011 not 2001)
- All players may transfer to another school without sitting out a year
- Players allowed to quit the team and keep their scholarship at Penn St
- Penn St must add new complianace positions at the school
- Probation for 5 years The NCAA imposes this period of probation, which will include the appointment of an on-campus, independent Integrity Monitor and periodic reporting as detailed in the Corrective Component of this Consent Decree. Failure to comply with the Consent Decree during this probationary period may result in additional, more severe sanctions.

EDIT: Also hearing that the scholarship limit may be waived for schools that accept Penn State transfers..

The question I'd like to know (just to satisfy my curiosity): Does this penalty exist as far as their football program, or does it extend to all athletics at the uni? It would suck if other programs there that had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal got the shaft from what Paterno, Sandusky, and others did.

BL.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by bradl

The question I'd like to know (just to satisfy my curiosity): Does this penalty exist as far as their football program, or does it extend to all athletics at the uni? It would suck if other programs there that had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal got the shaft from what Paterno, Sandusky, and others did.

BL.

Football runs the university so by taking out the football program will in essence take out everything else.

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Originally Posted by basesloaded190

Slap on the wrist. What the NCAA just confirmed is that what Miami did a few years ago is WORSE than child abuse, covering up child abuse, and lying about child about for years.

The NCAA could not shut down the program as it would take out much more than just the school. These sanctions will hurt the program for at least 8 years. The team will lose all star prospects going forward and will take much longer to rebuild and basically start from scratch.

[ShamrockSolace]

Crime does have a price tag. Victimize the innocent for pennies.
Shame on NCAA. Blind eye to injustice!

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by ShamrockSolace

Crime does have a price tag. Victimize the innocent for pennies.
Shame on NCAA. Blind eye to injustice!

IF you listen to what the president said, he said that football has gotten to big and money is playing to big a role over responsibility.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Football runs the university so by taking out the football program will in essence take out everything else.

----------

The NCAA could not shut down the program as it would take out much more than just the school. These sanctions will hurt the program for at least 8 years. The team will lose all star prospects going forward and will take much longer to rebuild and basically start from scratch.

That actually gets to my point, and once again, I am not defending anything that they did at Penn State.

But if someone who got a scholarship there or tried out for, say, their bowling or basketball team or any other sports curriculum outside of football, and made the cut for their team, they shouldn't be subject to this penalty, especially since the coaches in those programs didn't do anything wrong.

Penn State's reputation is shot; their football program definitely killed it, but the other sports who weren't part of this shouldn't be penalized from their actions. They are already having to deal with the stigma from it anyway..

BL.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by bradl

That actually gets to my point, and once again, I am not defending anything that they did at Penn State.

But if someone who got a scholarship there or tried out for, say, their bowling or basketball team or any other sports curriculum outside of football, and made the cut for their team, they shouldn't be subject to this penalty, especially since the coaches in those programs didn't do anything wrong.

Penn State's reputation is shot; their football program definitely killed it, but the other sports who weren't part of this shouldn't be penalized from their actions. They are already having to deal with the stigma from it anyway..

BL.

The money that comes from football funds everything at the school. The NCAA only sanctioned the football program so the other sports should be safe.

[bradl]

Originally Posted by MacNut

The money that comes from football funds everything at the school. The NCAA only sanctioned the football program so the other sports should be safe.

Answers my question. It would suck if women's sports there got shafted because of this. And as far as public opinion goes... Penn State was voted one of the top 10 party universities in the country. This sanctioning will definitely drop that down, as no-one will want to deal with that crap there.

BL.

[ShamrockSolace]

Is the next release of Mac OSX 10.8 in support for the Nittany Lions???

I would not want to be their corporate sponsor at this time.

[ejb190]

It will be interesting to see the impact of this on the University as a whole. For example, will the Nittany Lion Inn and the Creamery (both Penn State run) see a drop in revenue due to disinterest in going to University Park for Saturday football games? Is the University so tied to football that the reputation and enrollment of academics will be harmed? Are other athletic programs (or allumni associations, student groups, etc.) going to suffer from the lack of football revenue or traffic?

I remember sitting in my lab (Headhouse 1 behind Tyson Building) on a Saturday and hearing the roar of the crowd 1/2 a mile away over the sound of the HPLC chugging away. I have always asked myself what does college athletics really add (or take away) from the college experience - especially for those of us who never participated.

[CorvusCamenarum]

A friend of mine who happens to be a student at Penn State just got notice that to cover the fine, tuition is being raised. As such, she will no longer be able to attend due to the increased cost.

Stay classy, Penn State.

[malman89]

Originally Posted by bradl

The question I'd like to know (just to satisfy my curiosity): Does this penalty exist as far as their football program, or does it extend to all athletics at the uni? It would suck if other programs there that had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal got the shaft from what Paterno, Sandusky, and others did.

BL.

Originally Posted by MacNut

Football runs the university so by taking out the football program will in essence take out everything else.

----------

The NCAA could not shut down the program as it would take out much more than just the school. These sanctions will hurt the program for at least 8 years. The team will lose all star prospects going forward and will take much longer to rebuild and basically start from scratch.

The sanctions explicitly state that the funds must come from the football program's funds and not have an adverse effect on other sports. It won't necessarily hamper other programs - it's only 4 years, it's an amount that can be made up in donations somewhat. Plus like any other person or business, most ADs run in the red anyway, so if they do fall from the black to red in the short term, it can be overcome.

I think the biggest thing is the 4 year postseason ban. That tells all kids that were just recruited that (unless appealed - and PSU said they won't prior to the release) you will never play in a B1G championship game or bowl game. That's huge. USC's 2 years wasn't that big of a deal. Kids spent 4-5 years at college anyway with redshirts and most kids aren't even starters their first two years unless studs, so that was nothing.

For PSU though, 4 years is a career for many kids. Combine that with the scholarship reductions (of USC's level) with a less popular and powerful program, and that's pretty crippling. There's no Lane Kiffin at PSU blazing the recruiting trails regardless of NCAA sanctions. Second biggest thing would be the vacated wins, but I never cared for that old curmudgeon JoePa (guess I'm a generation or so short to do so), so oh well.

[nishioka]

Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum

A friend of mine who happens to be a student at Penn State just got notice that to cover the fine, tuition is being raised. As such, she will no longer be able to attend due to the increased cost.

Stay classy, Penn State.

It seems strange to me that a school with an athletic department running in the black ($30 million net income last year) would need to hike tuition to make a $12 million payment each year for the next five years. In spite of the severity of the punishments, with the way fans and former players have circled the wagons around the program it's hard to believe football revenue will decline too much over the next decade. They should be able to pay the fine easily without exacting the toll on the students.

I'd love to see a copy of that notice get posted online someplace, if indeed that's what the tuition hike is for, and let the internet outrage machine take care of the rest.

[malman89]

Originally Posted by nishioka

It seems strange to me that a school with an athletic department running in the black ($30 million net income last year) would need to hike tuition to make a $12 million payment each year for the next five years. In spite of the severity of the punishments, with the way fans and former players have circled the wagons around the program it's hard to believe football revenue will decline too much over the next decade. They should be able to pay the fine easily without exacting the toll on the students.

I'd love to see a copy of that notice get posted online someplace, if indeed that's what the tuition hike is for, and let the internet outrage machine take care of the rest.

Like any university - public or private, squeaky clean or slum dirty in nature - needs any reason to raise tuition. Inflation, maintaining competitive salaries, yadda yadda yadda.

I highly doubt the university would be stupid enough to state "due to the fine to our football program, we will be raising tuition 8.7%." It would lead to outright protest. My guess is that Penn Stater saw the tuition increase (if released recently, stupid timing by the administration) and blamed it on this instead of thinking rationally.

[chrono1081]

I didn't know who Joe Paterno even was for the first two years of going to Penn State. I thought he maybe was either a football player or a dean or something. I had no clue he was the football coach.

I grew up in that area too, but I hate sports so much that I pay no attention to them.

[ejb190]

Originally Posted by malman89

I highly doubt the university would be stupid enough to state "due to the fine to our football program, we will be raising tuition 8.7%." It would lead to outright protest. My guess is that Penn Stater saw the tuition increase (if released recently, stupid timing by the administration) and blamed it on this instead of thinking rationally.

Sounds like one of those "I saw it on the Internet so it must be true" rumors.

Didn't Penn State (and Purdue, for that matter) just announce that they had their second highest year for contributions in history? Really makes me wonder where all the money goes...

[Antares]

I don't have any ties to this school or really any interest in college football. However, I don't think the statue should have come down nor those wins be vacated.

Nothing happened that would fairly and justifiably invalidate those wins. Nobody cheated or otherwise did something unfair to create (manufacture) those wins. The abuse scandal is definitely a bad thing...But it is has absolutely nothing to do with all of the hard work done by the athletes, coaches, staff and students of Penn State to achieve those wins...including Paterno.

[LethalWolfe]

Every time someone goes 'but the wins, the wins... why did they take the wins?' it reinforces why they took the wins, IMO, because it gets people's attention. It lets everyone know that your actions have repercussions beyond yourself and hopefully, in the future, it will prevent someone from putting the reputation of an athletic program above the health and safety of human beings.

I think taking Paterno's statue down was the right decision. It would remain a lightening rod as long it was standing. Maybe it will go back up in the future. Who knows? I also like that they left the library named after him as sign of the non-football contributions Paterano had at Penn State.

[stonyc]

Originally Posted by Antares

I don't have any ties to this school or really any interest in college football. However, I don't think the statue should have come down nor those wins be vacated.

Nothing happened that would fairly and justifiably invalidate those wins. Nobody cheated or otherwise did something unfair to create (manufacture) those wins. The abuse scandal is definitely a bad thing...But it is has absolutely nothing to do with all of the hard work done by the athletes, coaches, staff and students of Penn State to achieve those wins...including Paterno.

I think the main reason why the wins were taken away is that supposedly in 1998 or 2002 (sorry, can't remember which), there were rumblings that Joe Paterno was in danger of losing his job based on recent seasons of poor on-field performances. Had the Sandusky scandal broken at the time (2002, I think), that along with the recent lack of on-field success, would have proven more than enough to push him out the door. So the thinking is that had he not interfered in the investigation into the abuses, he would have likely lost his job and not accrued those wins from 2002(?) to 2011.

Perhaps invalidating the wins from 1998 and beyond were a further F-U to his family and his legacy as punishment for the abuses that supposedly occurred "under his watch" in 1998.

[malman89]

Originally Posted by ejb190

Sounds like one of those "I saw it on the Internet so it must be true" rumors.

Didn't Penn State (and Purdue, for that matter) just announce that they had their second highest year for contributions in history? Really makes me wonder where all the money goes...

Most funds given to universities, non-profits, hospitals, all the above are allocated to specific purposes and can't be used for general operating funds that would help offset tuition.

My alma mater just pulled off $500mil in under two years. Half of it was to scholarships/need based aid, half to construction. Tuition still went up and it wasn't due to rebuilding a quarter of campus. The projects were fully covered by the fundraising. Just tuition, salaries, cost of living, inflation, blah blah blah. Little harder sell to get unrestricted funds donated.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally Posted by stonyc

Perhaps invalidating the wins from 1998 and beyond were a further F-U to his family and his legacy as punishment for the abuses that supposedly occurred "under his watch" in 1998.

Considering the trial verdict and the Freesh report I don't think you need to use the word "supposedly".

[stonyc]

Originally Posted by LethalWolfe

Considering the trial verdict and the Freesh report I don't think you need to use the word "supposedly".

Yep, pretty much.